What the Alliance is Missing

97 Gnome Mage
14480
Until that is broken, the Alliance will never have a true story or agency. They will be the Good Guy minor character in the Bad Guy's show.


Well said! And I keep getting the feeling that the horde, even when doing bad things, comes across as the anti-hero poster boys. Like they are still stuck on the 1960's Fist Full of Dollars formula and the rather juvenile "ooh I'm so bad that I'm cool" attitude. I mean, look at what went down at Blizzcon last year.

There is so much potential there. They don't need super villains but they need believable organizations to fight..... Like the pirates.... they could threaten the economic stability of alliance and horde... there is potential for story there.... the goblins and BE could want to ally with the humans and NE to combine their navies to fight the pirates and just drag everyone else along with them, for one example out of thousands of potentially interesting side stories to develop both sides.
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100 Gnome Mage
12985
What this all boils down to is the developers don't give two murlocs about the Alliance and their story. Metzen only cares about his Mary Sue Orc Jesus (and Thrall is the Orc Jesus... he walks on water, heals the sick and can resurrect himself and others) and his precious Horde. Metzen himself even admited he has trouble with writing for the Alliance side. This will not change until they remove Metzen from any creative decisions and bring in someone who is less personally invested in one side over the other.
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90 Worgen Hunter
12230
How about: Horde manage to take Darnassus, and Alliance manage to take Lorderon?

Huge victory for Alliance, territorial Victory tor Horde. Now both factions have their own continent.

Or maybe have the Alliance take Gilneas.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8195
Or maybe have the Alliance take Gilneas.


Or Stromgarde. This is a huge time for the Alliance in the last two expansions, or at least....it should be. But, they just don't feel nearly as active as the Horde is to their playerbase. Most of the Alliance questing is regarding defeat, not wins. The Barrens stuff is a good example. The only clear victory is in Swamp of Sorrows, against Stonard.....which isn't really a critical Horde base anymore. The Alliance did push back in Night Elf territory, but the results are mixed. And the Forsaken pretty much dominate all of Northern Lordaeron now.

To complicate this further, Alliance have very few heroes to rally around. The faction leaders feel impotent and unimportant. Three of the factions (Draenei, Worgen, and Gnomes) are underutilized, relegated to support characters if they do show up. The Dwarves play the drunken Irish sidekick to the Humans. The Night Elves....do whatever. They seem rather directionless, frankly.

And if there is any major Alliance lore, it's rarely in game, you have to read the books and comics to find out. This means many players will be left out of the story if they don't purchase those things.

The Alliance just never feels like it's doing anything, anywhere, and the few times it feels like something is about to happen, it's quickly ended. I certainly don't feel like part of the Grand Alliance, the mighty force of Azeroth. I feel like the Alliance of Convenience, where we conveniently play the support role to the Horde-centric story. The Forsaken need someone to plague? The Goblins need someone to swindle? The Tauren need someone to complain about defiling their lands? The Trolls need some shrunken heads? The Blood Elves need someone to project their prejudices on? The Orcs need someone to smash? Well step right up, the Alliance plot device is here to save the day!

I'm left wondering how the Alliance can afford to help the rebellion anyway, considering that outside of a few Night Elf lands way on the other side of the continent, they no longer have any serious footholds with which to launch aid to Vol'jin. Theramoore and Northwatch are gone.....what, are they going to rebuild Jaina's father's old keep in Durotar? Riiiight.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
15845
We (the Horde) blew up Theramore.... and nothing really bad happened to the horde..

Meh. Theramore was just as justified, if not more justified, than Camp Tuarjo or Southshore. They needed a way to cut off the army what was hammering their southern flank, and killing the source of all those troops was the logical thing to do. Can't use your home town as a military base during war and expect the other side to not want to blast it to bits.

I'm left wondering how the Alliance can afford to help the rebellion anyway, considering that outside of a few Night Elf lands way on the other side of the continent, they no longer have any serious footholds with which to launch aid to Vol'jin. Theramoore and Northwatch are gone.....what, are they going to rebuild Jaina's father's old keep in Durotar? Riiiight.

It's not reflect in-game, but the Horde has been completely pushed out of Ashenvale. The Alliance are basically on Orgrimmars doorstep already.
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90 Draenei Monk
17205
The alliance is missing development that's independent of the horde story and development for races that aren't human(specifically worgen, draenei, and gnomes).

Other issues are more related to poor storytelling than something that's missing. For example, most of our victories happen off screen.
Edited by Lena on 4/17/2013 4:48 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Paladin
15400
Oh and FYI, the new title for Alliance in patch 5.3 is "The Hordebreaker".
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
7675
regardless of current in-game events.. i have'nt seen much of the Alliance utterly owning the horde at all since any time since Lich King which feels forever ago... Metzen or w.e the writer.... he should recognise his bias then and recruit someone (some people) to come in and have some meetings and figure out a way to involve and expand the Alliance influence..

I understand writing for the "good guys" if it can be called that as both sides have both done questionable acts can be difficult.... it should still be considered as basically half the game... ignoring it or leaving it be leaves you with a 50% complete story....and imo is completely messed up.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
15400
04/17/2013 07:50 PMPosted by Âmbròsià
regardless of current in-game events.. i have'nt seen much of the Alliance utterly owning the horde at all since any time since Lich King which feels forever ago...


The Alliance destroyed a Horde base in Jade Forest... and then immediately lost it to the Sha.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
12180
Of the two important articles linked here... the following I believe is the most important paragraph:
This isn't really about keeping the score. It doesn't matter who has more wins or losses. What matters is that one faction gets to act and the other does not. When the Alliance does act first, that story is either told to the Horde players instead of the Alliance players, or we get to witness ourselves losing.
It's not reflect in-game, but the Horde has been completely pushed out of Ashenvale. The Alliance are basically on Orgrimmars doorstep already.

I have said it before, and I will say it again.

Just as Trekkies and Star Wars nerds often claim:

If it isn't on screen, it never happened!

I have read some of the WoW novels. Most of one author's works (I think we know which) is terrible, and I tend to disregard anything written by this schmuck outright. Though, I will admit that Wolfheart was mostly well done (got a bit too Mary-Sue at the end, ignoring most of the rest of what should have been the 'main cast'), and Golden's Tides of War was a great book... or would have been, if the Alliance got to see or know about anything contained therein IN THE GAME. The garbage that was the Alliance side of the Theramore scenario made that impossible. A massive missed-chance blunder on CDev's part.

This is supposed to be World of WARcraft, yet as far as most of us Alliance are aware: WHAT WAR?!

Granted, most of the problems we have stem back to the travesty that was Cataclysm, but they carried right on into Mists of Pandaria.

Jade Forest started off promising, but as the article author noted, we get chastised by Taran Zhu for it all. That fat Dooking Panda can go ook himself.

Then we're off to find the young Prince. When we DO find the little brat, he lectures us, and runs away! A complete waste of multiple quest line stories right there.

Then there's the last (so far?) solo scenario on the Isle of Thunder: The Fall of Shan Bu. Jaina Proudmoore and Vereesa Windrunner finally face off with the douche who, if not caused then certainly aided and abetted, both of their life's greatest heartaches, only to ONCE MORE get lectured by the pompous Fat Dooking Panda!

See, now I'm starting to feel like a lot of the anti-Pandaren crowd did after MoP's announcement. I'm wishing these damned lard-balls had never been added to the game (no offense to Pandaren players). I should not be lectured and chastised for participating in the game we are paying to play.

Get to it, CDev. You kids have a LOT of work to do before 5.4!
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90 Human Priest
11925
The Fall of Shan Bu. Jaina Proudmoore and Vereesa Windrunner finally face off with the douche who, if not caused then certainly aided and abetted, both of their life's greatest heartaches, only to ONCE MORE get lectured by the pompous Fat Dooking Panda!


It broke my heart when Vereesa yelled about her dead husband.

All the while Aethas Sunreaver was there looking guilty, shifting uncomfortably.

Great post by the way. I hope blizzard really is taking notes and gives us a writer who is well invested into the Alliance. As it stands, they are doing neither us or themselves a favour.
Edited by Rossalyn on 4/18/2013 1:03 AM PDT
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15 Human Priest
10570
Oh and FYI, the new title for Alliance in patch 5.3 is "The Hordebreaker".

That's one title I will never use under any circumstances. As poorly as the Alliance story is told, as poorly as the Alliance experience is, with all the story involving (revolving around) Horde actions I will never use any title with Horde in it.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
Zen
16225
It broke my heart when Vereesa yelled about her dead husband.

All the while Aethas Sunreaver was there looking guilty, shifting uncomfortably.

Great post by the way. I hope blizzard really is taking notes and gives us a writer who is well invested into the Alliance. As it stands, they are doing neither us or themselves a favour.


They probably aren't we get tweets like this from Kosak, first post is someone asking Kosak what alliance players would be saying if the story was flipped second tweet is Kosak's reply.

E Mars
"‏@EKMars1 11 Apr@DaveKosak @Roseyrosho I wonder what they'd complain about if roles were reversed and we're doing Siege of Stormwind. :P"

Dave Kosak ‏@DaveKosak
"@EKMars1 @Roseyrosho Hahah been saying that all week! But there's good feedback here. The espionage gameplay/plot isn't working for people."

Now two things bother me about Kosak's reply one its pretty much stating what alot of Horde spew all the time, and the other is he thinks the espionage gameplay/plot isn't working, which most Alliance players have stated is not the issue. The issue is the horrible writing the fact that THERE IS NO espionage we literately do one spy mission then beg Vol'jin to be able to supply his rebellion.

Kosak later tweet's that the Alliance is going to get a different title and yeah "Hordebreaker" is going to make some Horde Fanboys jealous of our Uber new L33t title (which is a complete joke) but the title is a slap in the face truthfully because nothing in 5.3 that the Alliance does is Horde Breaking.

So nice job holding something shiny over our heads Blizzard I'm sure a few Alliance will be happy about it, but those Alliance probably aren't the ones that are really upset at the quality of product you are supplying the Alliance in Story/Lore terms at the moment anyway.
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55 Draenei Death Knight
470
Varian should marry Shandris , I however would never put a draenei, gilnean or gnomes in charge of any offensive. They have proven to not be tactical savy, instead I would have them be the hammer of the Alliance.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
8970
Can we have a thread without the Horde going on like the Alliance wants free candy and cakes?

Bah. All they ever talk about in threads like these is whether or not they've won or how they're the good guys and the Horde are the bad guys as if that's all that matters. I just wish, for once, Alliance fans would stop concentrating all of their efforts on one upping the Horde and look inward...and find that there really isn't much there, and get mad about THAT.



We are mad about that, but you should know that such treatment comes from Blizzard investing more in the Horde than they do in the Alliance. I'll add though that from a morale standpoint, winning, or at least the appearance of winning does matter when you make those calculations.

Imagine what the Lord of the Rings would have been like if it were strung along with constant defeats, marked by depressed and stupid characters. Gimli refuses to help in half of it, Legolas is a moron who goes between weeping over the losses and getting people around him killed, Gandalf considers some nebulous higher calling that causes him to ignore everything that's going on, and Aragorn - the only competent member of the group - constantly lectures people on what they did wrong, can do no wrong, and just does everything for everyone.

That's the Alliance right now, and it doesn't look like it's going to change. Worse still, there's no closure for this story. We were there to get beaten up so that the rebellion would take pity on us and revolt. We're not an opponent for the Horde - we're the frightened and shaking animals from the ASPCA commercials.

What's most infuriating about this though is that we were promised more than this. Alliance fans were up in arms at the end of Cata, and we were assured that things were going to get better in MOP. Now that we're seeing the siege plot take shape though, I don't see how this promise isn't broken. We were handed a bait and switch, and a lot of us aren't going to fall for that when the next expansion is being marketed - not unless something is done now to fix this problem.
Edited by Kyalin on 4/18/2013 8:25 AM PDT
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90 Dwarf Paladin
15400

What's most infuriating about this though is that we were promised more than this. Alliance fans were up in arms at the end of Cata, and we were assured that things were going to get better in MOP. Now that we're seeing the siege plot take shape though, I don't see how this promise isn't broken. We were handed a bait and switch, and a lot of us aren't going to fall for that when the next expansion is being marketed - not unless something is done now to fix this problem.

A major reason for why I play this game is the story, Blizzard are actually really good writers, they just choose to be bad writers for the Alliance. I stopped playing a few months into Cataclysm,, for a couple of reasons, but one of those reasons was because I hated how they were treating the Alliance. You are right, we were promised we'd get better Alliance coverage and story, and while it isn't as bad as it was during Cataclysm, I don't consider the promise being upheld.

The sad thing is, Blizzard can fix this, the new patch is still on the PTR, they can make it better, but they won't.
Edited by Fiddlesnarf on 4/18/2013 10:34 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Hunter
12230


Bah. All they ever talk about in threads like these is whether or not they've won or how they're the good guys and the Horde are the bad guys as if that's all that matters. I just wish, for once, Alliance fans would stop concentrating all of their efforts on one upping the Horde and look inward...and find that there really isn't much there, and get mad about THAT.



We are mad about that, but you should know that such treatment comes from Blizzard investing more in the Horde than they do in the Alliance. I'll add though that from a morale standpoint, winning, or at least the appearance of winning does matter when you make those calculations.

Imagine what the Lord of the Rings would have been like if it were strung along with constant defeats, marked by depressed and stupid characters. Gimli refuses to help in half of it, Legolas is a moron who goes between weeping over the losses and getting people around him killed, Gandalf considers some nebulous higher calling that causes him to ignore everything that's going on, and Aragorn - the only competent member of the group - constantly lectures people on what they did wrong, can do no wrong, and just does everything for everyone.

That's the Alliance right now, and it doesn't look like it's going to change. Worse still, there's no closure for this story. We were there to get beaten up so that the rebellion would take pity on us and revolt. We're not an opponent for the Horde - we're the frightened and shaking animals from the ASPCA commercials.

What's most infuriating about this though is that we were promised more than this. Alliance fans were up in arms at the end of Cata, and we were assured that things were going to get better in MOP. Now that we're seeing the siege plot take shape though, I don't see how this promise isn't broken. We were handed a bait and switch, and a lot of us aren't going to fall for that when the next expansion is being marketed - not unless something is done now to fix this problem.


I love this analogy. Its pretty darn accurate.
Edited by Mortuse on 4/20/2013 11:02 AM PDT
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