Atonement needs further changes

100 Blood Elf Priest
7680
Change it to 50% healing and increase crit chance for some extra 15~25%, so it becomes a small Divine Aegis generator.

I know extra crit means more damage, but it would be like a compensation, since it will be used much less. It should be used only when people are not taking too much damage and to build up Evangelism, so it would be great to use it to build some Divine Aegis when people are topped.

To work properly, tho, it should stop prefering pets over players. Just change it to prefer people with the most max HP, so when people are full it creates DA on tanks.

It would still be very strong in fights with damage modifiers, but with a different focus. On these fights Disc Priests would still do great, but now as off-healers and as DPS pushers.
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90 Human Paladin
8740
No.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
No, thank you. >:(
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100 Blood Elf Priest
8790
Nope. Do not want.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
9970
no horrible design all around.
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90 Troll Shaman
12525
Just remove atonement from the game altogether. Also give spirit shell a 3 min cd and PoH a range limit of 12 yards, but add a new glyph that increases the range of PoH to 24 yards at the cost of a 4 second cd.
Edited by Kreyyn on 4/7/2013 1:00 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11915
PoH a range limit of 12 yards, but add a new glyph that increases the range of PoH to 24 yards at the cost of a 4 second cd.

That would give Disc priests no effective AE heal. The spell is already restricted to healing only the targets party and in a raid environment it's very common for members of a party to be spread well more than 12 yards apart.
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90 Troll Shaman
12525
04/07/2013 02:35 AMPosted by Mitimem
PoH a range limit of 12 yards, but add a new glyph that increases the range of PoH to 24 yards at the cost of a 4 second cd.

That would give Disc priests no effective AE heal. The spell is already restricted to healing only the targets party and in a raid environment it's very common for members of a party to be spread well more than 12 yards apart.


Remove party restrictions and make it a smart heal npnpnpnpnpnp. Can still shield people at range.
Edited by Kreyyn on 4/7/2013 2:48 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15250
If I wanted to play a shaman, I'd roll one. :p
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
Just remove atonement from the game altogether. Also give spirit shell a 3 min cd and PoH a range limit of 12 yards, but add a new glyph that increases the range of PoH to 24 yards at the cost of a 4 second cd.


While we're at it, let's buff Hymn of Hope to return 10x the mana it currently does, give it Divine Hymn again and a PbAoE spell that gives people standing in it absorbs, mmm.
Edited by Ceddya on 4/7/2013 5:05 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
12525
04/07/2013 05:04 AMPosted by Ceddya
Just remove atonement from the game altogether. Also give spirit shell a 3 min cd and PoH a range limit of 12 yards, but add a new glyph that increases the range of PoH to 24 yards at the cost of a 4 second cd.


While we're at it, let's buff Hymn of Hope to return 10x the mana it currently does, give it Divine Hymn again and a PbAoE spell that gives people standing in it absorbs, mmm.


Sure, would have to remove PoM though.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
7680
I'm currently doing old raids with my guild and eventual pugs in ToT normal, but what I've noticed comparing my heals with people with similar gear is that Atonement is very very strong and the right call in more than 70% of the time I'm casting.

I'm used to be top heals on most fights, and I don't even press Archangel or Spirit Shell anymore unless I know the other healers won't be able to heal people up, just because I'm too tied to the DPS race.

I like it too, I love to be the top heals doing 40k+ DPS, but imagine how strong this is in 10m. It's a press 3 buttons to be more useful than anyone else.

Compared with a Fistweaving Monk with similar gear I realized he was doing more damage than me, but still doing less healing. I was going around 40k dps and he was doing 45k, but my heals while DPSing were far better and he said everytime people started taking damage he was changing his playstyle. The more "changing" in playstile I was doing was to pop some PS:Shields and PoM after big damage and then using Divine Star to help him and the Shaman bring people back up.

I think pressing Archangel and doing some PoH should be more effective than continuing to Penance the boss on those particular times. If we're able to do more damage but our healing while DPSing are not enough to bring people up (but still effective in maintaining them for a while), we would pop Archangel more and do healing stuff a little more. But I don't believe a 20% nerf would acomplish that.

Instead of a 20% nerf, I would bring Atonement down to 50% healing and increase critical chance by a significant amount (15% - 25%). This way it would become our "auto Divine Aegis generator" that we lost when PoH got nerfed.

We would do a lot more damage, but that would be around the same since we are changing stances a lot more now. If the Priest is designated to press DPS, he would work as an off-healer, doing around 70~80% of a DPS damage, but healing for 20~30% of his potential. That's still good imo.

But it's only going to work right if they change Atonement "smart" healing to prefer players over pets. I would say it should prefer people with the most max HP, so we generate more Divine Aegis on tanks. This change alone would already be a big buff to Atonement, even with a 20% nerf, if it stops healing (and creating shields) on pets and start healing the tanks more it would be an overall buff.

The change in gameplay is that now Atonement is very strong in maintaining people up when there's no big raid damage, but once the raid starts taking damage and our DA is consumed we have to pop Archangel and heal people up with actual heals.

Our "actual" heals now suck, especially Heal and Greater Heal, I don't mean to use them either, very slow cast times and not "emergency enough", so I think Archangel should buff our other heals more, maybe reducing Flash Heal mana cost or PoH cast time.

This way we would cast Atonement spells for a while, with some PoM and PW:Shields to help keep people up for longer, and then pop Archangel, Spirit Shell and PoH/FH when big raid damage comes, or Archangel and PoH/FH to bring people back up.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
7680
What people don't understand is that most of our Divine Aegis are generated through Atonement already.

I got around 16% crit and the time I'm not casting Atonement, I'm casting Spirit Shell/PoH, PW:Shield and PoM, so if you don't consider the T6 talent and PoM crits, all the DA we get are from Atonement alone.

We don't EVER use Heal and Greater Heal, PoH is a very restricted AoE that we use rarely without Spirit Shell now and is not a big gain compared to Atonement when cast alone because when I cast PoH there's a chance one or more party members won't be in range or will not be needing the heals, so it's wasted, my Penance used on the boss will tick on 3 different targets and heal the most injured ones everytime, I don't even need to know who's the one needing the heal or compete with other healers targeting them, so it's a no-brainer.

The problem with potent smart heals is that it snipes other healers casts. It's probably more annoying than bubbles, because bubbles are shown in the tooltip now. If Atonement becomes a bubble generator instead of big sniped heals I think people would be less pissed.

They have to make our Atonement good enough to sustain low damage phases, and bring up PoH and Flash Heal a bit to be our choice when the raid takes a lot of damage. I believe that's their intention and the best way to provide this is changing how Atonement works and rebalancing our other options.
Edited by Caramelo on 4/7/2013 7:31 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
7680
Putting some math on the board:

When I Smite with 5 stacks of Evangelism I do around 30k damage and 35k healing.

Changed to 80% healing it will do 30k damage and 28k healing.

When my Smite crits (around 15% of the time), I do 60k damage, 35k healing and I generate a 40k Divine Aegis.

Changed to 80% healing it will do 60k damage, 28k healing and generate a 32k DA.

So in 100 Smite casts I do on live with ~15% crit:

(85*30k)+(15*60k) =~ 3.5kk damage
(100*35k)+(15*40k) =~ 3.5kk healing + 600k DA

With the 20% Atonement nerf:

(85*30k)+(15*60k) =~ 3.5kk damage
(100*28k)+(15*32k) =~ 2.8kk healing + 480k DA

With 50% healing and +25% crit:

(60*30k)+(40*60k) =~ 4.2kk damage
(100*18k)+(40*20k) =~ 1.8kk healing + 800k DA

As you can see, the change from live would result in a significant nerf to healing, but also a significant buff to damage and DA.

The difference between the 5.3 Atonement and the "50% +crit Atonement" are less significant in the matters of healing, but are an enourmous buff to DA.

If (and I said IF) they change Atonement to prefer people rather than pets, much of the overhealing from Atonement will be converted into usefull shields, resulting in a net gain. BUT Atonement won't EVER be able to bring bars up, so it's going to be used only when the raid takes sustained low damage, allowing other healers to cast their heals on targets taking damage spikes.

No more sniped heals when you cast your DPS rotation, more damage when you need to push DPS, more Divine Aegis to maintain HP bars high, less overhealing when people are full health and you have nothing to do other than damage.

I know they might need to balance other things, maybe giving some love to our Mastery and buffing some of our heals, but I believe this design is very close to reach what they want with Atonement, or at least is much closer than the 20% nerf they will give us.
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No.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
9970
Those doing tier 14 and saying atonement is too strong you're doing nerfed content and by the sound of it either 10 man with 3 heals , god knows why, or 25 man with top many heals if al you're doing is atonement. Atonement is not the all situation go to heal when you're looking at progression fights.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
I'm currently doing old raids with my guild and eventual pugs in ToT normal, but what I've noticed comparing my heals with people with similar gear is that Atonement is very very strong and the right call in more than 70% of the time I'm casting.


You are doing nerfed normal mode T14 content, pugged normal mode T15 content, and LFR. And you are saying we're overpowered.

I think perhaps you should try some more difficult content before you make statements like that. Nerfed content is nerfed. LFR is faceroll. And the only fight in ToT that you've successfully downed is Jin'rokh - which is faceroll in all difficulties. The fight after that, Horridon? Caters specifically to Disc strengths and weaknesses, and we look extremely good on that fight. On my guilds Heroic Council kill, the Resto Shaman blew us out of the water in healing. Does that mean Resto Shaman are overpowered? Or does it mean that the fight and the strategy we used catered specifically to all of a Shaman's strengths and papered over their weaknesses?
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100 Blood Elf Priest
8790
First of all, your biggest mistake, OP. You're doing mainly fights that are A) nerfed content (and 3 healing fights that only require 2 healers) or B) cater to disc's strengths. (Jin'Rokh and Horridon are almost pure atonement spam because of a damage modifier.)

If you're topping meters with pure atonement spamming (and I mean nothing but) on other fights, your other healers suck or you're just sniping all the damage before they can get to it and making them look bad. Neither of which mean that Disc is overpowered. It means that you're overhealing fights, outgearing other healers, playing with bad players, doing nerfed content, or your raid is not taking the normal amount of damage due to strat, not being bads, etc. Or ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Making blanket statements about a class that isn't broken and is actually fairly balanced, if a little towards the top of the pack, is ludicrous.
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88 Night Elf Priest
7140
no no no no! Its bad enough we are getting cut to 80% from 100%, that I can adapt too and adjust my strategy to make up for the loss. Why must my enjoyed method of playstyle be nerfed just to suit a pure healer when I personally enjoy healer/dps. Please leave my atonement alone!
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
no no no no! Its bad enough we are getting cut to 80% from 100%, that I can adapt too and adjust my strategy to make up for the loss. Why must my enjoyed method of playstyle be nerfed just to suit a pure healer when I personally enjoy healer/dps. Please leave my atonement alone!


Because if you heal nearly as much as a pure healer while also contributing non-trivial dps why would any raid leader with a brain take a pure healer? It's called balance...

Be happy they are only nerfing it 20%, that still leaves you well ahead of monk's eminence healing (60% and requires a buff to be maintained for that along with the statue and a smaller target range).

note: I'm not saying there needs to be further nerfs/adjustments, just pointing out that even with the coming nerfs your version is better than the monk version.
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