How is Ask Mr. Robot for advice on heal gear?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
8210
I'm having a hard time finding or figuring my stat weights, and I'd like to know if AMR is worth using for advice on upgrades, reforges, gems, etc.

Thanks!
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
I never recommend AskMrRobot for a healer. It tends to give very bad advice for healers in general. There are stickies in every class forum that can help you with your stat weights.
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90 Troll Druid
11195
I never recommend AskMrRobot for a healer. It tends to give very bad advice for healers in general. There are stickies in every class forum that can help you with your stat weights.


Hey Tiriel,

While I agree wholeheartedly when we're looking at Mr Robot from some of the default stat weights values but the great thing is we have the option to change these.

As such, the tool does incorporate gear upgrades and the ability to manually set stat weights to whatever we like makes it a very good program to reforge-gem with.
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90 Draenei Priest
0
Yeah, stay away from Ask Mr Robot for healing. ESPECIALLY when looking to see what is "BIS".

One thing I really enjoy about healing is our stat weights are a bit more flexible than DPS or tanks. Different encounters call for different kinds of healing, and one healing team may be better with one healing strategy than another team.

For example, I heal with a paladin and a shaman in my raid. The shaman is very good at burst healing. The paladin is very good at steady throughput, so I prioritize my gear to help offset anticipated damage. This means I gear a bit more heavily into mastery than many disc priests do, but I love the flexibility of it!
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
Stay away from Ask Mr. Robot as a healer. The advice is far from optimal and there are many other places to look.

Stat Priority: Spirit>Int>Mastery>Haste( to breakpoint)>Crit

Go ahead and reforge and gem for as much Spirit as you are comfortable. You are going to see players with different Combat regen, simply because that is what they are comfortable.

Intellect is our base stat and provides a boost to the strength of our heals as well as crit. Being that crit procs IoL, though its low on the totem pole, its not that bad.

Mastery is our go-to stat and will and should be your highest heal. Got extra haste? Reforge to mastery. Got a blue/yellow gem use Zen Wild Jade. Need an enchant, Mastery it is.

While haste is not optimal, reaching certain breakpoints can be helpful. 15%, 25% are good haste point to meet, if you have the gear to do.

Crit procs IoL, which, not something that you'll reforge/gem for, don't worry about taking it if the reforge gives you significant mastery or you just don't have the option of using a mastery piece.
Edited by Ceresc on 4/10/2013 5:24 AM PDT
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100 Worgen Druid
14905
You can't tell it to reforge to at least 3043 haste: if it can't get exactly there, then it will sometimes go under.

ReforgeLite can say ">= 3043", however you can't tell ReforgeLite to limit to a set amount of Spirit (it looks like it has that option but the option doesn't actually work).

So, at the moment I'm using ReforgeLite then manually shifting some spirit to mastery.
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In a word, terrible. In two words, very terrible. In three.. oh never mind you get the idea.

While what Moophius says is true, you can (to an extent) edit stat weights, however I have found something like wowreforge or reforgelite to be better at getting my reforges *exactly* where I want them.

I use wowreforge, but I have heard lots of good things about reforgelite. :)
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100 Night Elf Druid
5935
Considering how many long and contentious threads we've had where *humans* can't agree on the value of certain stats, I would expect it to be pretty bad.

There's enough variation in stat values for different specs that you might get better results asking in the paladin forums, or checking for stickies there.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12550
Being that crit procs IoL, though its low on the totem pole, its not that bad.


Crit procs IoL, which, not something that you'll reforge/gem for, don't worry about taking it if the reforge gives you significant mastery or you just don't have the option of using a mastery piece.


This is not why you would push Crit on a Holy Paladin, Ceresc.

Karkosavich - the amount of Spirit you run with is subjective, both in terms of your own comfort level and playstyle/healer comp, but also in terms of what you are being expected to do in your specific raid group(s). After Spirit, comes Mastery.

The rest of your reforging will again, depend on what you are supposed to be doing in a given encounter. At this point in the expansion (as you are in ToT), you are reaching the point where you can choose to push Crit after Mastery. If you are primarily tank healing, I would choose Crit. If you are primarily not tank healing, I would choose Haste.

TL;DR - Spirit, then Mastery, then choose based on need. Use ReforgeLite or a similar add-on, and leave the Failbot for other roles.

Riôt
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100 Tauren Druid
8545
Hey, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. It's true that a lot of healing comes down to personal preference. That's why we let you edit the stat weights - the tool is completely customizable :)

In fact, we took it a step further. We built spreadsheets that give you stat weights based on YOUR actual healing. The idea is you plug in some WoL data, and it spits back the right stat weights to use in AMR.

  • Holy Priest: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqOEHcTBAvyidFVqUlJLb25CTTFLcTFnN2w5MkVnMmc#gid=0
  • Holy Pally: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqOEHcTBAvyidDdRZWpZb2pfY2ozX3ItZ1lzNzNId1E#gid=15
  • Resto Druid: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqOEHcTBAvyidDd2MGxfTnd2NTdaQUdKNVpmOTJsbHc#gid=0
  • How to edit stat weights: http://blog.askmrrobot.com/2013/01/how-to-edit-stat-weights/


It looks like the only disagreement people have with the tool are the default weights. But since we give you the tools to edit those, I hope that helps those of you who don't like the defaults.

One last thing, to correct something that was previously said:
We DO allow you to get to the haste cap. It's always treated as an AT LEAST condition, because being right under isn't helpful.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
04/10/2013 03:26 AMPosted by Moophious
I never recommend AskMrRobot for a healer. It tends to give very bad advice for healers in general. There are stickies in every class forum that can help you with your stat weights.


Hey Tiriel,

While I agree wholeheartedly when we're looking at Mr Robot from some of the default stat weights values but the great thing is we have the option to change these.

As such, the tool does incorporate gear upgrades and the ability to manually set stat weights to whatever we like makes it a very good program to reforge-gem with.


I prefer ReforgeLite, as I just find it easier. My issue with AsMrRobot is that the defaults are so far off of what they should be that it's not even funny.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
04/10/2013 09:12 AMPosted by Zoopercat
It looks like the only disagreement people have with the tool are the default weights. But since we give you the tools to edit those, I hope that helps those of you who don't like the defaults.


I don't really care. The defaults should be as close to what is widely accepted as possible. I would never send a new player to your site because it's going to tell them wildly off the wall things. New players need to learn those stat weights for themselves, not be told to go to AskMrRobot and...well...behave like a robot. If they later go back and edit the stuff to the right stat weights, that's fine. But I will never send them to your site first, because it's wrong in too many situations.
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90 Worgen Druid
4810
It's like any tool - it needs to be used properly to be effective. I mostly use it for looking at and keeping track of potential upgrades since there isn't much else for it to help with regarding healing (reforging and gemming are pretty standard for most healing classes)

If there's one thing I'm certain of, it's that using AMR (even remotely effectively) isn't going to make you fail something in an actual raid setting any more than using other tools and information available to you.
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100 Tauren Druid
8545
Tiriel, we are always chatting with top theorycrafters to fine-tune our weights. If you tell me what you think they should be and why, we will take a look. We can add extra preset weights as well :)
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90 Troll Druid
11195
You can't tell it to reforge to at least 3043 haste: if it can't get exactly there, then it will sometimes go under.

ReforgeLite can say ">= 3043", however you can't tell ReforgeLite to limit to a set amount of Spirit (it looks like it has that option but the option doesn't actually work).

So, at the moment I'm using ReforgeLite then manually shifting some spirit to mastery.


I don't think you're understanding why asking for exactly 3043 haste is not always the most optimal way to reforge.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
It's a perfectly fine tool if you know what you're doing. I actually love it and use it when I don't feel like spending the extra 500-1000 gold experimenting with reforging/gemming around a cap. (That is, when I bother...current gear would imply that I don't care that much these days)

If you don't know what you're doing...well, if you really don't know what you're doing, it's probably not going to make your character worse.

The dangerous area is when you sort of know what you're doing but aren't confident enough to know that what it's telling you is wrong. For instance, when I just was checking to see that someone's priest could hit the haste softcap, and the default weights put him 2% under the cap...that's bad.

That's really bad. It's an artifact of the programming assumption that haste works like hit (i.e. that every point is equally valuable up to the cap). The code needs a fallback: if you can't hit the next breakpoint, use the above-cap stat weight for haste above the previous breakpoint.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
One last thing, to correct something that was previously said:
We DO allow you to get to the haste cap. It's always treated as an AT LEAST condition, because being right under isn't helpful.

Pretty sure your implementation of this is broken. I just tried it on a priest who can hit the cap (barely), and the optimizer put him at 23% (needs to be 24.98%).
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90 Troll Druid
11195
I use to use wowreforge but it's not taking your current gear upgrades into it's calculations (while still displaying that gear can be upgraded) creating wasted stats when you reforge nor does it have simple things like 170 mastery to hands. You always have to search 5 pages of gems no one ever uses to find current ones unless one types in the name. These have been issues for a while now with gear upgrades begin the most concern.

What a lot of people don't understand here (and reading the replys in this thread) is that Mr Robot's gear selection (biS) is based only partly on stat weights but this has nothing to do with one manually setting stat weight for their current gear and obtaining a reforge/gem selection based solely upon that. Negative comments in this thread are really directed at gear suggestions because of stat weights while not understanding why it's doing so.

Let's take the so-called issue of spirit in my particular case and class. Now, considering that spirit is valued differently and from many directions (25m Vs 10. Base values and personal choices etc) we can set up a cap (thanks Robot) while manually setting the value of spirit in relation to mastery, haste, crit, SP and int. Because I value mastery more changing thsoe two values lists different gems and reforges and that's not even taking into consideration what gear suggestions it would list.

So as a pure reforging tool it's as good if not better than most in my view because of the flexibility.
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100 Tauren Druid
8545
Kaels, can you give me the character name and realm? Were you using custom weights or default? IF they were custom, can you let me know what those are as well?

I want to look into this - if it's a bug, we'll fix it right away. If it's just a misunderstanding, I want to know that too. We're currently re-working the stat weight interface to make it even easier to use and get it to do what you want.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7275
Zooper, I'm sorry, but I too wouldn't recommend any healer to go to Ask Mr. Robot. There are too many factors in healing that it can't be boiled down to just math. There's haste breakpoints, individual raid needs, individual playstyles, Spirit comfort levels, and many other factors. Look at Disc priests: they can stack either haste or crit and do well with either; the difference between the two is negligible at best, non-existent at worst, and really it only comes down to playstyle. You can't reduce healing to just math.

I'm not saying AMR is bad. It's great for the vast majority of players, as most are DPS. And in order to get more DPS, it really is just a math game, and proper stat weights and reforges really do matter.
Edited by Fistlobster on 4/10/2013 11:59 AM PDT
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