Nobody Enjoys The Paladin Inquisition!

04/23/2013 03:48 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
But of course rogues put up dots much faster than pallies do


Your lack of haste might make it seem that way, but its mostly untrue


True I have not reforged yet, but the .15-.3 seconds (even if it was more) I will gain from doing so will not fix my disdain for inq. nor will it make me get dots up nearly as fast as a rogue. But still a fair point on your part.

If you feel it is an untrue statement I would suggest you spend time on a rogue and compare.
Edited by Arkidan on 4/23/2013 3:51 PM PDT
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100 Tauren Paladin
12015
04/23/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Arkidan
I actually do enjoy slice and dice quite a bit, it feels right. But of course rogues put up dots much faster than pallies do.

If by "dots" you mean combo points, then no, not really. They can gain some pretty quickly at the start of the fight, but once they burn through their energy bar it's much slower.
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100 Human Paladin
16245
If you feel it is an untrue statement I would suggest you spend time on a rogue and compare.


What are we comparing, how long it takes to get a 5 point rupture up vs a 5 stack of Censure?
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
21020
04/23/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Arkidan
I actually do enjoy slice and dice quite a bit, it feels right.

So spending 5 resource points is fine, for just more attack speed. But spending 3 resource points for 10%crit and 30% extra damage is a drag lol
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100 Tauren Paladin
11480
Ive gotten used to Inquisition, at first I didnt like it along with the dangle lol... but Im used to them now and it all feels like part of the class/spec... Is it fun? not really, is it required? yes, for sure...I agree with the OP when he is suggesting things to make Ret more fun... who doesnt want their favorite class/spec to be more fun? I sure do... theres nothing wrong with making good suggestions. Id like Templars Verdict to be cooler looking, sure...and im not going to argue with adding cool features to Inquisition to make it more fun to use....adding more effects and new graphics to the class would be welcomed by me and most other players I would imagine....why give him a hard time for suggesting that?
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04/23/2013 03:52 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
If you feel it is an untrue statement I would suggest you spend time on a rogue and compare.


What are we comparing, how long it takes to get a 5 point rupture up vs a 5 stack of Censure?


Your ability to gain combo points (thx keten, since maybe it was not clear) vs. your ability to gain hp.

@ Keten, if you are gaining combo points on a rogue at the same rate as a pally, something is wrong. Its not just their openers that are faster, but its also that they are a dw class vs a 2h class, they just get them faster.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
21020
but its also that they are a dw class vs a 2h class, they just get them faster.

I didn't know auto attacks generate combopoints
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
04/23/2013 04:01 PMPosted by Arkidan
Your ability to gain combo points (thx keten, since maybe it was not clear) vs. your ability to gain hp.


Yeah, without a lot of haste, things are going to be slow; I'm sitting at 26% haste and have Inq up within about three seconds of combat - only at 2 HoPo, though, since I have enough haste to squeeze out a TV or two before I have to start refreshing at three. Haste truly makes the difference, and may just change your mind on the whole matter.

I don't know how viable that track would be for PvP, though, but what (very) little PvPing I've done this expansion, I had no problems with having Inq up when I needed it.
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04/23/2013 04:00 PMPosted by Majintherm
I actually do enjoy slice and dice quite a bit, it feels right.

So spending 5 resource points is fine, for just more attack speed. But spending 3 resource points for 10%crit and 30% extra damage is a drag lol


Spending 5 combo pts, to make my dw class attack faster thus giving me more combo pts faster to then use other finishers faster, yes it feels right. As opposed to spending my first 3 attacks at subpar usefulness until I can get my buff up regardless of what it is and then having to spend 3 more every 30 seconds to maintain it, yes it is a drag.

And god forbid it drops off, cause you know in pvp its not always like you can refresh right on time (mistakes happen). I know everyone here always refreshes at the right time because its so easy.
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04/23/2013 04:06 PMPosted by Grôgnárd
Your ability to gain combo points (thx keten, since maybe it was not clear) vs. your ability to gain hp.


Yeah, without a lot of haste, things are going to be slow; I'm sitting at 26% haste and have Inq up within about three seconds of combat - only at 2 HoPo, though, since I have enough haste to squeeze out a TV or two before I have to start refreshing at three. Haste truly makes the difference, and may just change your mind on the whole matter.

I don't know how viable that track would be for PvP, though, but what (very) little PvPing I've done this expansion, I had no problems with having Inq up when I needed it.


Its not the getting it up (dam!) and keeping it up (omg!) that's the problem, its just not a "fun" ability, its not. It doesn't feel right. It's up all the time.

Although I will say its also frustrating sometimes when your close to a kill (this is for arena in particular) with TV but you need to refresh inq. oh the maddening choices (im sure some call it skill, I call it aggravation).
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Wait, wait, Arkidan, I think you either have things really confused...Or are looking at things very laterally.

Slice and Dice has nothing to do, directly, with combo point generation; it increases auto-attack speed which, in turn, increases energy regeneration through a passive unique to each Rogue spec, which indirectly means faster combo point generation as energy fuels combo point generators.
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Wait, wait, Arkidan, I think you either have things really confused...Or are looking at things very laterally.

Slice and Dice has nothing to do, directly, with combo point generation; it increases auto-attack speed which, in turn, increases energy regeneration through a passive unique to each Rogue spec, which indirectly means faster combo point generation as energy fuels combo point generators.


This is a circular argument, the end effect is... more combo points. And yes it is unique to rogues, because rogues were designed around combo points, not shoehorned into hp several expansions later. If you play holy you know hp works very very well with it, rets have had problems with it although it has gotten better.

We are way away from the starting point, but ill tell ya what, I don't find inq. fun, but when I get a chance ill reforge and see, maybe your right and the haste will help me enjoy it more (it cant hurt). The bottom line is that I and others don't find it fun, and that's just opinion for a great many people, but it still stands that lots of people (as shown by all the threads) don't like it.
Edited by Arkidan on 4/23/2013 4:22 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
End effect is not direct effect, though; you're cut-to-the-chase logic is confusing and not helpful.

And HP works exceptionally well for Ret, too.
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"Instant damage is the only thing I like in this game, that's why Inq suxorz no matter how good it is for my overall damage."


As support/dps spec im gonna chalk this up to trolling. There is more than enough buttons to push that are not dps no matter where the pvp is. We have a lot of abilities and there is a lot of decisions to make. It's not all about damage, try to keep some perspective and not troll because you don't share/like my opinion about 1 ret ability.

I would have expected more from you Lobster since a lot of the pallies including me like/respect your opinion. But I suppose the occasional troll can't be helped.
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End effect is not direct effect, though; you're cut-to-the-chase logic is confusing and not helpful.

And HP works exceptionally well for Ret, too.


HP generation has improved IMMENSLY from the inception of it, for ret in particular. I absolutely agree with that.

I am sorry for any confusion, the conversation was more pointed the comparison of slice/dice vs. inq., they are not straight up comparisons (a lot of folks use them to compare). But I didn't chose what was compared, just answered the question that was asked. As I said, 1 felt right the other did not, as well as rupture feeling right, but no answer for savage roar.
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04/23/2013 04:55 PMPosted by Lobster


As support/dps spec im gonna chalk this up to trolling. There is more than enough buttons to push that are not dps no matter where the pvp is. We have a lot of abilities and there is a lot of decisions to make. It's not all about damage, try to keep some perspective and not troll because you don't share/like my opinion about 1 ret ability.

I would have expected more from you Lobster since a lot of the pallies including me like/respect your opinion. But I suppose the occasional troll can't be helped.

Ohhh you're talking about PVP. Lol you should still have Inq up in PVP, you just time it differently. It's not going to have 100% uptime but that doesn't mean it's not worthwhile, especially with cooldowns. With Inq you have more crit than a warrior who gems for it. Think about that.

I'm not trolling you, that is literally what you're saying. You don't like Inq because it's not instant gratification. It's not fun because it doesn't give you a big number on your screen when you hit it. That's all.


I am not saying its the instant gratification that's a problem (by definition all abilities are instant gratification, your pressing a button and there is an effect). As I said there are plenty of buttons to push and I don't get upset when I have to use BoP on someone or BoF or whatever other abilities might be required.

I don't like opening with subpar abilities and the ability is not "fun" to use/reuse to gate my dps. If I want big numbers I use my cd's to get them. Lots and lots of our abilities don't give us number and are yet very "fun"/satisfying/gratifying to use. It has nothing to do with SCT showing me 250k scroll across the screen.
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So your main gripe against Inq is you have to spend a whole, what, 6sec? before your attacks do more damage? Really? Really? That tiny window on the pull is enough for you to make all these posts, eh.


I am only making the posts to answer questions that were asked or rebut things that were said. And no my main point is the ability is not "fun". And that's also a lot of other people's main point and this is a game people play for "fun". There are other things that could be done to improve/replace it.

Do you not post or have you not posted in the past about things you think would improve the class? Of course you have, you have already stated you like Inq. and think it should stay because it improves (your opinion) our class by having it.

In regards to your edit: its not just the first 3-7 seconds in pve/pvp your talking about, its also the time spent to keep it up every 20-25 seconds for the refresh. But ALSO its that we are subpar out of the box without inq. (that really annoys me).
Edited by Arkidan on 4/23/2013 5:35 PM PDT
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