pally healing

90 Blood Elf Paladin
7500
Alright I been healing for pretty much 5.0 and on. So my Question is is there anything wrong with reforgeing and gem for crit and haste VS the normal holy pally mastery build??
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90 Human Paladin
15450
Haste improves your healing at the cost of more mana. Also, three of your major spells (Holy Shock, Light of Dawn, Word of Glory/Eternal Flame) are instant. The benefit from haste for these three spells is limited to GCD reduction.

Both crit and mastery improves your healing without increasing mana consumption. Six hundred crit rating will increase your crit by 1%, and 600 mastery rating will increase your mastery by 1.5%. So for the same amount of rating, mastery will increase the effectiveness of all your healing spells 50% more when compared to crit. The one advantage that crit has over mastery is that the additional healing from crit will affect Beacon of Light, while mastery has zero effect.

The rest is up to you.
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90 Human Paladin
11480
You can try it, but like the first answer said haste doesn't really benefit us anymore, not like Cata and before, mastery is just the way to go now; especially with our fixed mana pools.

Plus crit helps infusion of light to proc, lowering all you're big cast spells (Divine light, holy radiance, holy light) by what, 1.5 seconds? Meaning they become less than a second casts. More crit, more infusion of light procs, more chances to use big healz quickly.

So I'd stick with the mastery/crit build, while gemming/forging into spirit as you need it.

Too add more he has to note not only does crit inprove beacon healing, it also places a larger effect from mastery onto whoever gets the crit.
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90 Tauren Druid
8710
Alright I been healing for pretty much 5.0 and on. So my Question is is there anything wrong with reforgeing and gem for crit and haste VS the normal holy pally mastery build??


Holy Pally mastery is the most OP healing mechanic/spell in the game.

You'd be out of your mind to gem/forge for anything else. If you have a brain, you'd be abusing the hell out of it.

Furthermore, haste is the lowest priority for Holy paladins now...Why would you do that?
Edited by Tonydanza on 4/10/2013 9:10 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
12970
Holy Pally mastery is the most OP healing mechanic/spell in the game.


I'm curious about how you came to this conclusion.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7275
04/10/2013 10:46 PMPosted by Areos
Holy Pally mastery is the most OP healing mechanic/spell in the game.


I'm curious about how you came to this conclusion.


The main complaint is that it shows up first on your healing done scale, with no overhealing. Honestly, though, that's a pisspoor reason to say something is OP. Honestly, I'm glad I have a paladin who can stay on the tanks while I focus on the raid, and when AoE healing needs to go out, IH works wonders in reducing the burst I need to heal up. Honestly, I wouldn't take it to heart; if they're not the top of the meters, people will constantly complain.
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90 Tauren Druid
8710
04/10/2013 10:46 PMPosted by Areos
Holy Pally mastery is the most OP healing mechanic/spell in the game.


I'm curious about how you came to this conclusion.


It's a passive heal that is far and away your #1 heal. It should be nerfed into the ground and other abilities buffed to compensate for such poor class design. Your top heal is passive. If that doesn't tell you somethings wrong then nothing will.
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90 Human Paladin
12970
04/10/2013 11:08 PMPosted by Tonydanza


I'm curious about how you came to this conclusion.


It's a passive heal that is far and away your #1 heal. It should be nerfed into the ground and other abilities buffed to compensate for such poor class design. Your top heal is passive. If that doesn't tell you somethings wrong then nothing will.


Illuminated Healing is applied by all of our sources of healing sans-Beacon of Light transfers, so technically it's not passive since it's applied through active commands done by the Paladin.

That being said, your only reasoning behind it being overpowered is that it's our #1 source of healing. (Or damage mitigation, rather) I personally don't agree, but I'm curious about something else; how much do you feel our mastery should be healing for? Or, do you think we should have a different mastery? And if so, what would it be?
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90 Human Paladin
10810
its not really a Passive heal. Its the HoT effect that paladins have been begging for since vanilla.
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90 Tauren Druid
8710


It's a passive heal that is far and away your #1 heal. It should be nerfed into the ground and other abilities buffed to compensate for such poor class design. Your top heal is passive. If that doesn't tell you somethings wrong then nothing will.


Illuminated Healing is applied by all of our sources of healing sans-Beacon of Light transfers, so technically it's not passive since it's applied through active commands done by the Paladin.

That being said, your only reasoning behind it being overpowered is that it's our #1 source of healing. (Or damage mitigation, rather) I personally don't agree, but I'm curious about something else; how much do you feel our mastery should be healing for? Or, do you think we should have a different mastery? And if so, what would it be?


It is too far ahead of any other "heal" "used" on your logs. I call it passive because you get it off of every heal, I would call that passive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not picking on pallies either. I think resto druids need work, our rejuv is in the same boat imo (being too far ahead #1) the difference is that pallies are, I'am sure you'd agree, unquestionably the top healer at the moment and it's really not even close (discounting the utility/dps a disc can bring currently)

So, if pallies are a tad too strong, we need to look at what it is. And looking at logs with one ability that is passive, or pseudo passive, providing the high majority of throughput...well..I'd think that's the first place to look.

I don't pretend to have any ideas for changing mastery. I havn't even thought of it extensively, I do not know. I think it should provide significantly less, that is all. However, I would buff other abilities to mitigate that and help provide similar burst potential, just less overall throughput of IH.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
The OP is just asking if reforging and regemming crit & haste is a good idea. Somehow you guys managed to take it in a completely different directions. There is already a thread about this. No need to spread it all over the board.
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90 Human Paladin
12970
It is too far ahead of any other "heal" "used" on your logs. I call it passive because you get it off of every heal, I would call that passive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not picking on pallies either. I think resto druids need work, our rejuv is in the same boat imo (being too far ahead #1) the difference is that pallies are, I'am sure you'd agree, unquestionably the top healer at the moment and it's really not even close (discounting the utility/dps a disc can bring currently)


It's not "too far ahead" of the second, third, and fourth following healing sources, which are usually either Eternal Flame/Light of Dawn, Beacon of Light and either Holy Shock or our T90 talent. Illuminated Healing consistently tops my healing, but it's still usually within 5% of the following top healing sources after it. Only on extremely low damage fights does Illuminated Healing make up 40%+ of a Holy Paladin's healing, which is a sign that you should cut healers for such a fight.

I'm not going to argue against Holy Paladins being a very strong healer right now, but I will argue that context can and does make a world of difference on what fights they excel at. Holy Paladins do great at fights like Jin'rokh, Ji-Kun and Megaera, but there are other fights where other healers excel at as well; Discipline wins indisputably on Horridon, for example, while Mistweaver Monks dominate on Tortos.

So, if pallies are a tad too strong, we need to look at what it is. And looking at logs with one ability that is passive, or pseudo passive, providing the high majority of throughput...well..I'd think that's the first place to look.

I don't pretend to have any ideas for changing mastery. I havn't even thought of it extensively, I do not know. I think it should provide significantly less, that is all. However, I would buff other abilities to mitigate that and help provide similar burst potential, just less overall throughput of IH.


You're drawing conclusions where they don't apply. You feel Holy Paladins are overpowered and simply look at their top healing source as the reasoning to it, which is fallacious. Just because Illuminated Healing does the most amount of healing for us doesn't mean it's overpowered.

If there's anything that's too strong about Holy Paladins, it's our T14 four set bonus. If you're looking to nerf something, that's where I would start.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
Alright I been healing for pretty much 5.0 and on. So my Question is is there anything wrong with reforgeing and gem for crit and haste VS the normal holy pally mastery build??


Haste is not one of our better stats this xpac. With the change to a fixed mana pool, the throughput that haste provides has diminished greatly. The typical mastery build is common because its proven to provide the most throughput. If you like crit than by all means, Crit works very well with mastery, and is recommended in some situations. Reforging and gemming for haste ultimately becomes a throughput loss however, which I'm assuming you aren't going for.

Some side information on haste: The first haste break point is 15%, giving you an extra tick on EF. Any haste after 15% and before 25% (or 10% and 20% if you have a guaranteed haste buff) is pretty much a waste of stats, as the actual reduction to cast time is very minor and the stats are better spent improving the strength of your heals. Especially since overhealing still provides mastery.

As a standard build, I would go with Spirit to comfort> Int> Mastery>Haste (to BP)>crit>haste. Though there are arguments that Spirit>Int>Mastery>Crit>Haste. Its primarily a playstyle option and what works with your raid composition. Though I haven't personally looked into stacking crit, there are a few posters here that recommend it.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8040
Ill admit that its effective, but its not overwhelming, find a hpriest who runs divine star and no one will keep up with him when you have aoe stacking situations. Where paladins suffer right now is fast healing. If we stack into haste at all we go oom, but stacking into mastery makes us perfect for reducing dmg that goes out to the raid. We havent really changed much since cata, so instead of calling for our nerfs, you should be calling for buffs
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
3940
the evolution of these threads....starts from something completely different and evolves into HOLY PALADINS ARE OP! NERFNERFNERFNERF and why or why not this should happen.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7500
I raid with a disc Priest and Shaman. Would my mastery be over ridden if the disc priest puts a bubble on the tank, or will my bubble be put aside till the disc priest bubble is gone.

and thank u for all the great info
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90 Human Paladin
15450
I raid with a disc Priest and Shaman. Would my mastery be over ridden if the disc priest puts a bubble on the tank, or will my bubble be put aside till the disc priest bubble is gone.

and thank u for all the great info


Your shield stacks with the disc priest shied. For that matter, it will stack with tanks' shield and another holy paladin shield. The lowest shield will get consumed first. On average your shield will be smaller than the other shields, so yours will always get consumed first.

For example the tank has 40k IH, 100k PW:S, and 160k SS. He gets hit for 170k. Your IH and PW:S will be consumed first, then the remaining 30k will be absorbed by SS, leaving SS with 130k.
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1 Troll Warlock
MHC
0
I raid with a disc Priest and Shaman. Would my mastery be over ridden if the disc priest puts a bubble on the tank, or will my bubble be put aside till the disc priest bubble is gone.

and thank u for all the great info


Your shield stacks with the disc priest shied. For that matter, it will stack with tanks' shield and another holy paladin shield. The lowest shield will get consumed first. On average your shield will be smaller than the other shields, so yours will always get consumed first.

For example the tank has 40k IH, 100k PW:S, and 160k SS. He gets hit for 170k. Your IH and PW:S will be consumed first, then the remaining 30k will be absorbed by SS, leaving SS with 130k.


I'm like, 90% positive that tank shields get used first, then external shields in order of smallest remaining duration first.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16485
People keep complaining about IH, but it's not IH. Conceptually they don't understand that paladins can't just cast 1 heal.

When I drop a heal on someone, it's not 1 heal, it's 2-4 heals (direct heal, heal over time, absorb shield, and beacon transfer)

IH is just an add-on. Beacon is just an add-on. Daybreak & EF are just add-ons. But they are where we get the power. The base spell is what we need to compile, with its associated add-ons. IH, beacon, nor daybreak are spells we can cast directly, so they need to be accounted for in the direct healing spells.

Daybreak should always be considered as part of HS, because it is HS.

EF should always be considered WoG, because it is WoG.

IH and beacon should always be considered part of the base spell they were cast from because they are part of that base spell. The only difference with IH/Beacon is that it has the potential to apply a variety of healing spells.
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