Ele PvP - Ranged DPS CC Comparison

90 Tauren Shaman
10765
Elemental Shamans currently suffer from an extreme lack of control on the battlefield. We have very few useful crowd control abilities and this sets us apart from other ranged DPS. It illustrates the dire need for expansion of the Shaman CC toolkit (or the reduction of the rampant CC granted to other classes). As you will see, both the quality and the quantity of control granted to us is arguably inferior.

This comparison only focuses on ranged DPS crowd control. Note: I have labeled those abilities that are talents not all are able to be used together, Warlock is a prime example of this as many of theirs are pet specific.

Elemental Shaman: 5 abilities total
Silence: NA
Disarm: NA
Stun: Capacitor Totem (requires 5 sec to charge), Earthquake (random area of effect stun)
Other: NA
Disorient: Hex (target retains movement control, damage may cancel effect)
Banish: Bind Elemental (Elemental Only),
Horror: NA
Controlled Root: Earthgrab (talent), Freeze (talent)
Fear: NA

Warlock: 14 abilities total
Silence: Fellhunter: Spell lock (Fellhunter Demon), Optical Blast (Observer Demon)
Disarm: Voidwalker: Disarm (Voidwalker Demon)
Stun: Shadowfury (talent), Fellguard Axe toss (Demonology), Infernal Awakening (Infernal)
Other: NA
Disorient: Succubus: Seduction, Mesmerize (Shivarra Demon)
Banish: Banish (Demon, Aberration, Elemental only)
Horror: Mortal Coil (talent)
Controlled Root: NA
Fear: Fear, Blood Fear (talent), Howl of Terror (talent)

Mage: 9 abilities total
Silence: Improved Counterspell, Frostjaw (talent)
Disarm: NA
Stun: Deep Freeze, Combustion (fire)
Other: Dragon’s Breath (fire)
Disorient: Polymorph, Ring of Frost (talent),
Banish: NA
Horror: NA
Controlled Root: Frost Nova, Freeze
Fear: NA

Hunter: 10 abilities total
Silence: Silencing Shot (talent)
Disarm: Snatch, Clench (scorpid)
Stun: Intimidation
Other: Scatter Shot
Disorient: Freezing Trap, Wyvern Sting (talent)
Banish: NA
Horror: NA
Controlled Root: Narrow Escape (talent), Various Pet Abilities
Fear: Fear Beast (Beast only)

Balance Druid: 10 abilities total
Silence: Solar Beam
Disarm: NA
Stun: Bash (talent), Pounce (cat form), Maim (cat form).
Other: Ursol's Vortex (talent)
Disorient: Disorienting Roar (talent)
Banish: Cyclone
Horror: NA
Controlled Root: Entangling Roots, Nature’s Grasp, Mass Entanglement (talent)
Fear: NA

Shadow Priest: 9 abilities total
Silence: Silence
Disarm: Psychic Horror
Stun: NA
Other: Dominate Mind
Disorient: Shackle Undead (undead only)
Banish: NA
Horror: Psychic Horror, Sin and Punishment (set bonus)
Controlled Root: Void Tendril’s Grasp
Fear: Psychic Scream, Psychic Fear (talent)

I have tried to be as exhaustive as I can be, however, I am not an expert in every class. If I have forgotten any ability please feel free to post it. The Shaman community deserves better than our current toolkit. Do your part, comment and help Blizzard hear our concerns.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8545
I would love hex to be spammable. I would CC all damn day.
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Please go post this in the Damage forums. This is an excellent thread, but class forums don't get read by blues.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13975
Please go post this in the Damage forums. This is an excellent thread, but class forums don't get read by blues.


it'll get drowned in people saying we need less CC, not more.

Ignoring shaman aren't the issue in this at all, and actually could use more.

Not sure if it was a troll but I saw an hpal in a thread the other day saying hex needs to be a 1m CD..
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90 Draenei Shaman
7065
04/12/2013 10:07 PMPosted by Zerovii
Please go post this in the Damage forums. This is an excellent thread, but class forums don't get read by blues.


it'll get drowned in people saying we need less CC, not more.


See but people spam that because it's true.
Adding more CC to anyone, even those lacking it, is counter productive.
Game needs less CC. Make the difference less by removing theirs, not adding ours.
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04/13/2013 01:09 AMPosted by Ayanama


it'll get drowned in people saying we need less CC, not more.


See but people spam that because it's true.
Adding more CC to anyone, even those lacking it, is counter productive.
Game needs less CC. Make the difference less by removing theirs, not adding ours.


They won't do any such nerfs until 6.0 because of fear it might be too game changing. It's easier to buff one class than to nerf 10 others.

Anybody else see a problem with the logic that Shaman are just fine and everybody else is too powerful?
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90 Pandaren Shaman
6765


See but people spam that because it's true.
Adding more CC to anyone, even those lacking it, is counter productive.
Game needs less CC. Make the difference less by removing theirs, not adding ours.


They won't do any such nerfs until 6.0 because of fear it might be too game changing. It's easier to buff one class than to nerf 10 others.

Anybody else see a problem with the logic that Shaman are just fine and everybody else is too powerful?

Yeah, you don't give someone a promotion by demoting everyone else.
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90 Draenei Shaman
14055
Meh, our biggest problem (Elemental) is the complete lack of silence protection.
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90 Draenei Shaman
13390
Removing cd on hex and flame shock for dps shaman would be glorious
Edited by Shazböt on 4/16/2013 2:01 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Shaman
4660
While I'm by no means saying Shaman in general(not just Ele) lack CC, you can't really use that list directly either.

My Destro warlock doesn't get Shadowfury AND Felgard Stun, nor do we get all of those other pet CC's, we get one set.

Again, not saying Shaman couldn't use some help but the list has to be taken at a spec by spec basis, not a class basis.
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List would be more effective if it showed what is most common to have in one build for one spec, and not every cc that class has.

Ex.

Frost Mage: 6 abilities total

Silence: Improved Counterspell
Disarm: NA
Stun: Deep Freeze
Other: N/A
Disorient: Polymorph, Ring of Frost (Talent)
Banish: NA
Horror: NA
Controlled Root: Frost Nova, Freeze
Fear: NA

Elemental Shaman: 4 abilities total

Silence: NA
Disarm: NA
Stun: Capacitor Totem, Earthquake
Other: N/A
Disorient: Hex
Banish: NA
Horror: NA
Controlled Root: Earthgrab Totem (Talent)
Fear: NA

etc. etc.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8545
It's one of the biggest hurdles to being a desired part of a well-rounded RBG team.

Elemental Shaman: 4 abilities total


Earthquake


Get out.

You know what I would like?

I would like earthquake to be very similar to deep freeze in that it only affects one target and has a cooldown of roughly 30 seconds. It would knock the target to the ground for a few seconds and whilst lé target was on the ground earth shock/fulmination would do double damage.

I amaze myself sometimes.

I really do.
Edited by Grenade on 4/16/2013 8:32 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
4960
Wind Shear, Hex, Grounding Totem

just make hex autocast and go ahead and bake that 10 sec glyph in.

wind shear isnt a blanket, but its not on a bad CD

Grounding Totem. Use it right? then you know its pretty hot.

We could use sometype of disarm I think. We have nothing to stop hunters.
AND SILENCE BREAKERS
Edited by Summerflame on 4/18/2013 9:16 AM PDT
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04/17/2013 02:38 PMPosted by Seth
Please go post this in the Damage forums. This is an excellent thread, but class forums don't get read by blues.


They read the rogue and mage forums everyday. I've even seen blues comment in the rogue forum.


I'm sorry, you must be new here. Allow me to reiterate: Blues don't read Shaman forums.
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In PVP Ghostwolf is our friend, snares aren't much of an issue but clever use of our totems will save us from SOME of the carnage dished out from DKs and the likely (Lucky) chance you are to see a rogue before he nails you.

Other than that, we have amazing burst as ELE, as long as we aren't being ff'd we will kill anything.
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My opinion:
The issue is not about how many tools we have, its about how many tools everyone else has.
Since this fact has already been pointed out I will try to see if I can iterate further.

These type of things become very clear in One vs One situations (Which blizzard does not balance around)

In a 1v1 situation Against A:
Rogue: I have to wait on him to make a mistake, if he does not I will not win the fight.
Frost mage: Same as rogue, I can sham rage the Dfreeze, Trinket a fake casted Blanket Silence, But if he is using his CDs wisely he could either A. Get a reset, or B. Continue the duel with a temporary Disadvantage and then continue to have more reliable tools.
Destro Warlock: Have to play defensively until I can find out how offensive/defensive the particular Destro lock is, then adjust playstyle until I eventually lose because they are INSANE.

I won't go thru every class but those are a few specific examples I've run into thus far. As far as arenas go
2s: Need a support class to run with or I get blown up during Cloak/Bubble or any type of immunuty.
3s: A well balanced team including a ele shaman can be pretty deadly considering Hex is a curse and tremor is pretty important.
I haven't tried 5s MoP

What it really boils down to is the fact that we are a hardcasting caster. Fulmnation and Lava Surge procs are the exception (RNG, even tho its up often).

Solution: Fix cap totem Radius, OR make it Proj Totem Baseline, reason being is because Totemic restoration is extremely important. When i proj totem my Capi totem it doesnt stun even though I placed it EXACTLY where they were running, (it auto positions 5yards NORTH EAST WEST or SOUTH of where you placed it) So im Glyphing and Talenting a unreliable stun that I properly placed.
Give back the ability to cast totems while silenced for Ele, in 1v1, 2s, or 3s against a rogue the rogue can make me useless while DPSing.
On that same note, a bubble/AMS/Ring of Peace/Karma/Cloak of Shadows are all understandable spells, but the fact that they can use WHILE putting out great pressure is what bothers me.
If i win against a competent players its normally because these things:
I kept healing stream down, I used Healing Tide right before a burst or silence, I juke at least 2+ cast, I used hex (twice) I spam healed myself as soon as they made a mistake, I hit cap totem, I cycled 2 flame shocks, Numerous Fulminations, and managed to keep Frost shock on them as well.
I have a blast on my ele shaman and hope blizzard will continue to further our efficiency in pvp

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90 Orc Shaman
14280
To be even remotely useful in PvP Earthquake should be like how Fire Mage Flamestrike used to be. INSTANT. It should keep the cooldown, but it needs to be instant cast.
Oh, and the fact that every ability we have is literally a cast that can be silenced is just BS. At least before MoP came out totems worked...
Edited by Magtark on 4/19/2013 4:40 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
8545
Spriest: Silence/fear/horrify/mind control (Disc only have fear/MC, and MC is only used in 2s).
Mage: Silence/stun/sheep/dragons breath
rogue: sap/blind/stun/silence/slow cast
warrior: stun/fear/silence
DK: Stun/silence/slow cast
Hunter: stun/scatter/trap/fear (on beasts)
paladins: repent/stun/blinding light
warlocks: Fear/horrify/silence/some specs have stuns/cast slow
shaman: Hex/stun - 45 second CD and 5 second charge time
druid: Cyclone/stun/disorient/Anything given by their bond
Monk: Sap/silence/stun

lulz
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