Lore friendliness of race/class combos

90 Worgen Death Knight
9685
Cowadins.
Corpseadins.
Panderp Knights.

And that's about it.

I never wanna see dem.
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70 Blood Elf Mage
3290
    Night Elf Mages
    Tauren Paladins


These two current combos seem the most out of place and especially irksome to me personally.

Just for conversation and to point out a deepening the culture of the races INSTEAD of more game-mechanic homogenization think about race-only specific classes:

Alliance
    Human Diplomat
    Night Elf Dreamwalker
    Dwarf Rifleman
    Gnome Tinker


Horde
    Orc Earthwarder
    Troll Witchdoctor
    Tauren Plainstrider
    Blood Elf Spellbreaker
    Goblin Merchant
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
13610
Draenei Rogues are really something that should exist.

That's the one thing about the Draenei retcon that still bothers me.

They took the most Rogue-like and Rogue-focused race in WCIII, and retconned them into... something that does not have Rogues.

And then they added Mishka. I guess there's a chance that she's a hunter - but she runs around with daggers in the 5.1 scenario.

The same goes for Gnome hunters. Gnomes use guns. They like guns. Really - there's Gnomes with guns running around all over the place... But we cannot play as them. The whole 'Oh, but Gnomes don't like ANIMALS!' issue can be solved by introducing a few mechanical-looking animals tagged as Beasts. There are already elemental creatures tagged as beasts - and blatantly undead-looking animals that aren't quite undead enough to be untamable (but still work nicely for a Forsaken hunter) - so it's not much of an issue.
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90 Worgen Warlock
16740
The sole fact that both Horde and Alliance possess all classes shows they have some level of tolerance towards them. That or they are stupid, blind, racists or hypocrites.

After the kind of twisting they did to create Sunwalkers, there's nothing impossible here. For example, Blood Elf druids? Schoolar types that learned the ways of the nature to achieve a better environmental quality in their cities and zones. A botanist of some sort. Blizzard just have to write it.

Personally, the reason why I'm opposed to it is one of the biggest criticisms that I have with wow: inevitable mmo homogenization. Back in the day (BC, vanilla, Warcraft 3, etc...), the races each had their own strengths and weaknesses. Each brought different skills to their respective factions which gave them each a unique flavor in terms of their capabilities.

Nowadays, the races are starting to converge into a singular entity with the only difference between them being how they appear superficially. This sacrifice is likely being made in order to allow more customization in terms of player avatars. This, in my opinion, essentially ruins the uniqueness and feel that each of the races once had and detracts from the overall universe.


Which is why Vanilla was so garbage. It was incredibly unbalanced, classes and specs didn't have clear roles, talents were a mess that could result in a total failure or absolute OP. It is a good thing that races don't affect output that much. People would just jump on the best race for whatever they want, instead of choosing the race for the race itself.

Also, people use 'homogenization' a lot when they don't want something to happen, when in fact, it's pretty relative. We can say classes are already homogenized since the beginning because all of them "have a DPS spec", "have AoE" or "have some sort of CC". Races themselves will cause a lot more trouble with their racials.

"But they can't with the hooves! You'll hear them coming!" You're confusing that with a shoed hoof (like you would hear on horses on asphalt streets). Draenei are not shoed, they have inner pads that provide traction and cloven hooves that can be spread apart as needed (think mountain goat). This makes them have a good grip in all manners of environment, and relatively silent when they walk.


Funny thing is that doesn't require any lore development to justify that. For some crazy reason, Blizz thinks it makes sense for Draenei and Tauren not use shoes/boots. Of course they wouldn't use the same kind of boots, but the idea that they would prefer or even believe their hooves are better prepared to deal with whatever threat that might appear than a, for example, boot made of Elementium is pretty much nonsense. They're Tauren and Draenei, not cows. They got hands and they would use some pieces of cloth under their hooves if it made them 'more stealthy'.

By the way, this whole "can hear them coming" is quite relative. Pandaren are incredibly fat but can somehow fight like some sort of Bruce Lee. Tauren and Draenei can be Monks, even though they have hooves, which would be quite problematic to land after doing some hyper-ultra-awesome-kick. And still, it makes more sense than Rogues?

Hooves are a pretty bad argument against them. Specially because there are Grimtotem Rogues out there.

Also, Rogues aren't only about stealth, Rogues are about exploiting opportunities and weaknesses. Ambushing is one of them. Combat spec is different, it's totally about direct combat.
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Amusingly, there is a distinctly roguish Tauren in Tides of War. (The courier sent by Baine to Jaina, who could stealth past enemy lines.)

Everybody could have rogues, really. But I am still opposed to the idea. Individual exceptions may exist for nearly every class combination for every race, yet we lose much of the flavor of each race if we design them around those exceptions.

Tauren or Draenei rogues are sufficiently rare that they ought to be confined to NPCs only. Ditto human druids, etc. We're on a slippery slope here folks. I say we get off it, now, and preserve the flavor of each race.
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90 Gnome Mage
19145
Gnome druids- no. Unless they get the added racial of "snuggly bear", wherein their bear form becomes immune to damage as nothing in the universe can bring itself to hurt something so cute.


haha, I so want.

I want my gnome druid dammit! Go kitten form! Flight form could be a hummingbird (racial bonus - can fly as fast backward as forward). Tell me that wouldn't be cool.

Gnome hunters- yes. They could do it the same time they introduce tameable mechanical mobs.


Even better, gnome hunters could have a unique 'tame' ability. Instead of taming and creature, you catch it, take measurements and build a mechanical version. Tell me that wouldn't be awesome.

But, joking aside, I think the one that annoys me the most is goblin shaman.....seriously how does that make sense?
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Goblin shaman are presumably geological engineers.
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90 Orc Warlock
10370
But, joking aside, I think the one that annoys me the most is goblin shaman.....seriously how does that make sense?


I think it said they cut deals with the elements to exploit their resources/power.
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90 Pandaren Monk
5550
Definitively Against:
Druid: Blood Elf, Gnome, Goblin
Paladin: Forsaken, Orc
Shaman: Human, Gnome, Blood Elf
Warlock: Night Elf, Draenei (unless the lore definition of of the class is expanded to include Demon Hunters)
Death Knights: Pandaren

That said, I would be okay with such pairings if the rarity of them was enforced by game mechanics. For example: you could roll a Draenei Warlock but you wouldn't receive any XP bonuses (rest, heirlooms, Guild perks, RAF, etc.) and would only receive, random number, 25% of XP from all sources and you'd start at "Unfriendly" rep and wouldn't have access to the racial capitol or quest givers of your own race until you raise your rep (through faction over-flow) to Friendly.

EDIT: On second thought, Gnome druids would be okay if they were Mecha-druids, using Gnomish, transforming body armor instead of nature magic.
Edited by Xanji on 4/18/2013 7:47 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
5550
But, joking aside, I think the one that annoys me the most is goblin shaman.....seriously how does that make sense?


They basically con the elements into submission. Taunka have a similar type relationship where instead of communing with the elements, they beat them into submission.
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90 Human Paladin
10845
I still think Trolls should have gotten paladins before the Tauren.
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90 Night Elf Priest
11090
Against.

Paladin:Orc, Tauren, Troll, Goblin.

Warlock: Draenei, Night elf, Tauren.

Hunter: Human, Undead.

Druid: Human, Undead, Troll, Gnome, Tauren, Dwarf, Blood elf, Orc, Draenei, Worgen, Goblin.

Mage: Troll, Orc, Tauren.

Warrior: Gnome, Blood elf.

Shaman: Human, Night elf, Blood elf, Draenei, Gnome, Worgen, Undead, Goblin.

Rogue: Tauren

Priest: Tauren, Orc, Goblin.

Death Knight: All.
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90 Worgen Warlock
16740
Everybody could have rogues, really. But I am still opposed to the idea. Individual exceptions may exist for nearly every class combination for every race, yet we lose much of the flavor of each race if we design them around those exceptions.


To begin with, our characters don't really have to represent a majority of our race. We are, in fact, the individuals who would choose our own path and leave to do whatever we might do around the world. Considering all classes are accepted in both factions, there's no issue for a Draenei Warlock or a Human Druid besides the fact they are rare.

Secondly, classes such as Warrior, Hunter, Death Knight, Rogue and Warlock don't really need background.

- Warriors and Hunters are too basic. Pick a gun, shot. Pick a sword, swing it. There's no real "cultural background" behind any of them, it's the most basic way to kill stuff.

- Death Knights are forced upon the individuals. They are accepted the same way Warlocks are. Which, btw, DK's are worse because Warlocks don't necessarily have an urge to hurt others.

- Rogues and Warlocks fit exactly into the notion of an individual freedom of choice. Rogues can be either criminals, people that exploit others or do the dirty work while everyone else just pretend they won "because they were the right ones". And Warlocks are exactly individuals that go against the majority of their people, against what is accepted, by choosing the path of power.

Last but not the least, people usually mistake that classes have a specific concept behind them. For example, Blood Knights drain the light instead of calling it the same way a human does, the whole "will" or "faith" concept is still there but happens differently.

And I don't really get why people say it's "losing the flavor". Nothing is being taken away, only added. Specially if we are talking about the exception. They are, by all means, exceptions.
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90 Undead Warrior
6420


Personally, the reason why I'm opposed to it is one of the biggest criticisms that I have with wow: inevitable mmo homogenization. Back in the day (BC, vanilla, Warcraft 3, etc...), the races each had their own strengths and weaknesses. Each brought different skills to their respective factions which gave them each a unique flavor in terms of their capabilities.

Nowadays, the races are starting to converge into a singular entity with the only difference between them being how they appear superficially. This sacrifice is likely being made in order to allow more customization in terms of player avatars. This, in my opinion, essentially ruins the uniqueness and feel that each of the races once had and detracts from the overall universe.


Which is why Vanilla was so garbage. It was incredibly unbalanced, classes and specs didn't have clear roles, talents were a mess that could result in a total failure or absolute OP. It is a good thing that races don't affect output that much. People would just jump on the best race for whatever they want, instead of choosing the race for the race itself.

Also, people use 'homogenization' a lot when they don't want something to happen, when in fact, it's pretty relative. We can say classes are already homogenized since the beginning because all of them "have a DPS spec", "have AoE" or "have some sort of CC". Races themselves will cause a lot more trouble with their racials.


Just to clarify, I'm only against the addition of race/class combinations to the game that make no sense in the context of the story, not necessarily class design or balance. Homogenization of the classes themselves is an entirely different topic. Vanilla had so many issues because some classes/specs were not viable at all due to poor design (i.e. bear and paladin tanks being simply worse than warrior tanks in a raid environment) not necessarily because there was a shortage of race/class combos. In fact, I preferred it when only the Alliance had paladins and the Horde had shamans. Again, this is all just my opinion.
Edited by Morzain on 4/18/2013 9:10 AM PDT
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Flight form could be a hummingbird (racial bonus - can fly as fast backward as forward). Tell me that wouldn't be cool.

Well, my opinion on gnome Druids just changed.
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85 Worgen Mage
1895
Night Elf MagesTauren PaladinsThese two current combos seem the most out of place and especially irksome to me personally.


I've always wondered why the former is such a problem to people. Imo it was one fo the few cata additions that made a good amount of sense.
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04/18/2013 09:36 AMPosted by Rosyllyn
Night Elf MagesTauren PaladinsThese two current combos seem the most out of place and especially irksome to me personally.


I've always wondered why the former is such a problem to people. Imo it was one fo the few cata additions that made a good amount of sense.
Night Elves banned arcane magic after the war of the Ancients.

That's why the Higbborne were exiled to the Eastern Kingdoms in the first place.
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90 Worgen Warlock
16740
Just to clarify, I'm only against the addition of race/class combinations to the game that make no sense in the context of the story, not necessarily class design or balance. Homogenization of the classes themselves is an entirely different topic. Vanilla had so many issues because some classes/specs were not viable at all due to poor design (i.e. bear and paladin tanks being simply worse than warrior tanks in a raid environment) not necessarily because there was a shortage of race/class combos. In fact, I preferred it when only the Alliance had paladins and the Horde had shamans. Again, this is all just my opinion.


Oh, I know. When it comes to taste, anything goes.

It's just that there's nothing really consistent to defend the idea that there shouldn't be new combos. If the lore justify it, then there's no problem. The fact both factions have all classes, which means they fight along side those and tolerate them, basically demands that they tolerate the ones of their own race that would want to learn such ways.

And, of course, why the idea of Night Elf Mages, for example, somehow "reduces the flavor" or "take the uniqueness away", but it's ok to between Hunters and Druids? I mean, it's just going to be another trait of their people. There's nothing that reduces Druid meaning on the Night Elf society because of the Hunter aspects, and the same way, Night Elf Mages don't take anything away from them.

Night Elves banned arcane magic after the war of the Ancients.

That's why the Higbborne were exiled to the Eastern Kingdoms in the first place.


Society changes. Culture changes. Laws change.

The sole reason why Tyrande freed Illidan was exactly that his powers were going to be quite useful in the war against the Legion. The same thing applies to arcane. It's even more reasonable in fact. Common arcane might just be a simpler form of the powers Illidan had used, but it's quite safe when compared..

It does make sense.
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73 Worgen Rogue
5745
04/17/2013 05:33 PMPosted by Sybhyl


Draenei warlock
Undead druid
Orc druid
Goblin druid
Undead paladin
Orc paladin
Human shaman


I'm still not totally sold on NE mages, in fact.



Why the hell not? There is plenty of lore on Night Elven Mags or Highborne: http://www.wowpedia.org/Highborne
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90 Troll Hunter
12970
It would be easier for me to post the Race/Class Combos I'm in favor of.

Tauren Rogue
Draenei Rogue
Troll Paladin
Gnome Paladin
Gnome Hunter

I also think Tauren Magi and Night Elf Warlocks are explainable, but I'm neutral about 'em.
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