Holy Healing: Need help

90 Blood Elf Paladin
7750
I'm looking for help of experienced holy healers.

I rerolled from Druid to Paladin some weeks ago, mostly because my raid was composed of a Disc Priest and a MW Monk, and we needed a stronger tank healer, and as a Druid that wasn't the most efficient role for me or for the MW Monk, Disc can do that, but his playstyle is mostly raid heal, and hes a good player that way, i'm also the Raid Leader, and i don't want to force him out of his playstyle and maybe even make him lose efficiency, so i took the blow myself and lost my 518ilvl Druid for this Paladin.

I played as paladin both in TBC and WoTLK, and in fact paladin playstyle was the kind of healing i most liked. And in general i love playing my paladin.

But right now i'm having some issues, and i would kindly ask for some advices:

1- Mana problems: Last Maegara kill, (normal 10-m) i was reaching the 6th head almost mana empty.
I stayed at the melee most of the fight for Seal mana proc, i had pretty low overhealing, but i was testing Sacred Shield instead of EF.
I tried to focus on healing the Tanks, Shielding one of then the entire time, and keeping beacon on the other, using WoG when 3 HP and tank with damage, using HS every time there is damage to heal with it, and waiting if there was nothing to heal.

Also did alot of cast cancelling of Divine Light, and used LoD for Aoe when Green damage occured.
On the Rampage phases i used Holy Prism, and a healing or raid damage reduction CD, and used the basic rotation of HR+HS+HR+LoD, and when using Holy Avenger HR+LoD+HS+LoD+HR+LoD+HR+LoD+HS+LoD with some crusader strike in the middle for extra LoD if mana is low.

The fact is that i ended in third on heals, had pretty low overhealing, (18% if i remember well) and was OOM at the 6th head...

What i was doing wrong? Any tip? Advice?
Is not running EF the problem?

2- Also EF related... how should i use it?
I made my own theorycrafting here, i always do the math for my healers when i raid, and it seems that all our heals are pretty inefficient and low HPS if they overheal and you only gain the shield. (As expected)

But people talk about EF blanketing, and i can't see how this is really viable.
I tried it, without much sucess...
I know how to track HoTS, i played a druid with sucess till now, so that is not the problem.

But how to do it? Keep 3HP EF's on both tanks? Should i reapply even if the initial heal will all be overhealing?
Should i 1HP the entire raid? Or just wait for someone to take damage then EF this target with the amount of HP i have at that time?

EF generates around 1750 shield per tick raid buffed, with full mastery reforge, every 2.5sec.
So each HP expended on EF does in fact 700 HPS...
This is in fact pretty low...

If its not overhealing, the ticks heals for 4400 (w/ mastery), that is still 1750 HPS per HP expended.
Even if you keep the entire raid on 1 EF, its only 17.5k of HPS...

The only way to make it worth it, is if you take the initial healing, and even then only if its not an overheal...

So is my math flawed? What should i be doing with EF?
How is the most efficient way to blanket the raid in EF?


3- The problem i found is that between Disc Atonement Smart Healing, and MW Hots, i can only heal the raid with instant single target heals, or during heavy aoe damage.
There is nothing to heal when there is low damage, its impossible to use Holy light to heal the raid on low damage times, and with a Prot Paladin and a DK as the tanks, most of the time i end up just cast cancelling until they take a big hit.

What should i be doing?
I tried staying at melee and using crusader strike when there was nothing to heal, so i could generate HP and EF the raid for shields, but like i demonstrated, without the initial heal, and without actual raid damage to the hots to heal, there is very little HPS happening.

4- I don't have acess to HC t14 gear...
I have read people talking about how t14 set is amazing, and how even Heroic ToT set is worse then HC 2/2 T14 because of set bonus.

There is a topic at Method forum that explained this well.

So, part of my problem is not having t14?
And without T14, will i be able to keep up? Or should i go back to my druid, because i lack such pieces to be really efficient?



Said all this, i don't think that my healing was terrible, i did well, and bosses were killed, but i couldn't justify my change from Druid to Paladin to myself.
I was expecting it to be more efficient to have a Paladin+MW+Disc then Druid+MW+Disc, and i thought that healing the tanks with a Paladin would be better, and all the talk about how paladins are somewhat OP right now, contributed to that belief. ( And i really like my paladin, so changing back to him had some bias too, i only played a druid because of the number of people on Pally/Priest/Lock tier in the core, but it changed now and opened enough space for me to play my paladin, and yes since im the Raid Leader i feel that its my duty to change my character to better suit the raid, in the example, not just the one with power. )

So please, i would be really grateful if people could help me in this.

Any link to good discussions, paladin forums, good topics, guides, anything will help.
And a very dedicated player, and i'm a healer since the start of BC, and a wow player since classic, and i will devote any necessary time to get this working.

Thank you.
Edited by Sátán on 4/11/2013 6:52 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7750
Oh as an additional note:

One thing that bothers me, is that Paladin heals seems low compared to my druid in MoP.

A Flash heal, heals for ~75k, and Divine Light for ~100k.
My druid regrowth healed for 135k plus 30k Seed, and was 1.5sec cast time.

That plus Hots, etc... it was very mana consuming, but so far i have not seem an amazing mana conservation on my single target heals with the paladin.

It seems to heal for less and slower... idk how people are doing 150k HPS with this... sincerely.
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90 Human Paladin
6780
Read your post, but you make no mention of Divine Plea. Are you using it? If not you should be. Ideally you'll want to use it right around 75% mana, and then every chance you get after that. Yes, it reduces your heals while it's active, but not nearly as much as being oom will reduce your heals.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7750
Oh Sorry Liquidrock, i completly forgot to say about that, because it's so automatic...

Yes, i do use Divine Plea whenever my mana drops below 75%, and we are not on a intensive healing part of the fight. (If we are on the parts were we need more healing, i will use it as soon as the phase ends and everyone is on safe zone)
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100 Draenei Paladin
11490
skip Holy Prism for Megaera....use Light's Hammer, it is up for every rampage, it has no mana cost, it heals for a lot more than HP if your group is stacked properly.

are you the only one dispelling, using up tons of mana? we have a priest on one group, myself on a group, and third priest as backup. dps monk and rogue clear theirs when possible.

without logs, its hard to go more in depth since we can't see your full raid comp or actual spell and CD usage.
Edited by Caant on 4/11/2013 9:42 AM PDT
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100 Tauren Druid
14440
Hi Satan!

I dug up a few logs from our kill with my main group and a friend's group that I ran with.

--

3 Healing it on my Paladin with our MW Monk and Pug Shaman:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kkh1slz4dxcmdhy7/analyze/hd/source/?s=2509&e=3034

On my paladin I keep an 1-EF blanket on the raid (which it is a little easier to build up HoPower since I have my T14 4-pc - Edit You can still EF blanket sans 4pc, it is just not as easy - it isn't hard mind you, 4pc just makes it easy imo) and a 3-EF on my tanks.

I like to weave in HL when possible during lower damage for the mana efficiency and added benefit. (I'm a big believer in every little bit adds up when it comes to mastery).

During Rampage I would use my Thor Hammah and do the whole HR/HS/LoD song and dance weaving in CDs as available/needed.

Also, I prefer Divine Purpose over Holy Avenger. I find the no-thought free HoPower works well with my EF blanketing play style, since I am always dumping it out as much as possible and refreshing the HoT.

I also prefer the glyphed Divine Plea. It's all the mana without the reduced healing, plus the cast time is low enough it can usually be weaved in during lighter damage (I usually let my healers know when I am casting it so they can keep an eye on the tank).

This way I haven't had any mana issues, and that is with me not ever meleeing for the Seal Proc... because I am bad and/or lazy lol.

--

4 Healing with a Hpally, 2 Disc Priests, and Rdruid (me):

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w4uqxz4lk0n86fn5/analyze/hd/source/?s=10603&e=11126

Our Holy Pally here opted for more of a LoD option rather than a EF blanket. I don't remember any issues on her end, but I was mostly trying to remember how to play my druid after not touching her since 5.1 lol

--

Hope this maybe offered a different perspective :]
Edited by Sharahbear on 4/11/2013 11:30 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
3420
Sacred Shield is a very weak talent for Hpallys. You can only have it on one target at a time, and the shield amount is negligible.

EF is the best T3 talent there is, assign yourself to healing the tanks, and blanket the raid with EF while placing Beacon on the weaker tank of the 2.

Put 3 HP EF on the tank you are not Beaconing, and 2-3 HP EF on the tank you are Beaconing. 1-2 HP EF for everyone else, and maybe 3 on yourself since the ticks are stronger.

Run Divine Purpose, even if it is random, when it does proc you find that you can cover the raid with 4-5 3 HP EFs that the other healers don't even need to touch their heals for some time.

It also helps if you save your holy power right after an Acid Rain lands, there should be at least 1-2 targets that the other healers are not able to get to as quickly.

To save mana, use Holy Shock -> Holy Light -> Eternal Flame -> Holy Shock -> repeat.

If you can hit more than 3 people with Holy Radiance, use it. Otherwise, it is more prudent to hit cheap heals rather than spend HR's mana cost on 1-2 targets.
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A really small thing i wanted to add...

In regards to DP. Seeing 5 or 6 DP procs in a row is amazing..but keep in mind that you still want to be using HS on cd.

I realized i was making this mistake awhile back and just wanted to share that.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
14435
judgment the boss in between casts (selfless healer) or when you find yourself having nothing to heal, and get a free flash of light that heals for 100% more every ~14seconds, which i find helps quite a bit and saves you the mana of spamming holy radiance to get the 3+ charges to spread eternal flame
i also prefer using the HS procs to cast holy light on the most vulnerable targets, which ends up healing the tank with beacon of light for 100% the amount anyway

if you do end up using selfless healer, try to use FoL on the beacon as it'll grant a charge of holy power

DP is also great for mana conservation
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7750
I'm still having some issues.

Mana-wise i fixed myself, got some upgrades, and worked it out.

But i still cannot produce those 75k+ HPS...
It seems the raid take too low damage for that.

Most of the time everyone is topped because of Monk Hots + Disc Smiting during low damage phases.
I found that EF people that is full HP just for the shield generates very low HPS.

I'm thinking about changing my pattern to keep focus on tanks, using HL spam on low damage phases when mana is stable, or just melee for mana if its low, DL if they take real damage, FL if they take spiked damage, keep HS on CD healing whatever player has some damage at the time, and pool HP to LoD.

I found that LoD is a huge part of my healing, and that those are the times were my throughput is really needed. The other healers can cover the low damage phases really well with little mana usage, and what is a problem in low damage phases is eventual tank spikes, so focusing on the tank seems to be the right thing to do for me in this composition.
And when we need to top the raid fast, there i can bring something to the table with LoD plus our vast number of CD's to cover different damage phases.

I'd like to ask for more experienced healers out there if this pattern can produce descent HPS.

Is focusing on LoD instead of EF a good thing to do?
I know that if i'm sitting at 5 HP, i need to use it so i can keep generating HP, but is it a good style to focus on tanks on non-raid damage phases, and go for HR+HS+LoD on damage phases?

There is any stats change that would be interesting with this approach?
(I think i will keep EF talent anyway, just change play style, it seems Selfless healer is too weak with the uncalled nerf, and shield is just healing for too little to be really useful, but i'm not sure yet, might want to test selfless healer, it has potential to tank healing, but i see why its called a bad talent right now.)
Or is EF the only way to really produce acceptable HPS numbers as a paladin?

Thank you.
Edited by Sátán on 4/14/2013 1:28 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
3420
judgment the boss in between casts (selfless healer) or when you find yourself having nothing to heal, and get a free flash of light that heals for 100% more every ~14seconds, which i find helps quite a bit and saves you the mana of spamming holy radiance to get the 3+ charges to spread eternal flame
i also prefer using the HS procs to cast holy light on the most vulnerable targets, which ends up healing the tank with beacon of light for 100% the amount anyway

if you do end up using selfless healer, try to use FoL on the beacon as it'll grant a charge of holy power

DP is also great for mana conservation


No self-respecting hpally runs Selfless Healer in raids. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I'm still having some issues.

Mana-wise i fixed myself, got some upgrades, and worked it out.

But i still cannot produce those 75k+ HPS...
It seems the raid take too low damage for that.

Most of the time everyone is topped because of Monk Hots + Disc Smiting during low damage phases.
I found that EF people that is full HP just for the shield generates very low HPS.

I'm thinking about changing my pattern to keep focus on tanks, using HL spam on low damage phases when mana is stable, or just melee for mana if its low, DL if they take real damage, FL if they take spiked damage, keep HS on CD healing whatever player has some damage at the time, and pool HP to LoD.

I found that LoD is a huge part of my healing, and that those are the times were my throughput is really needed. The other healers can cover the low damage phases really well with little mana usage, and what is a problem in low damage phases is eventual tank spikes, so focusing on the tank seems to be the right thing to do for me in this composition.
And when we need to top the raid fast, there i can bring something to the table with LoD plus our vast number of CD's to cover different damage phases.

I'd like to ask for more experienced healers out there if this pattern can produce descent HPS.

Is focusing on LoD instead of EF a good thing to do?
I know that if i'm sitting at 5 HP, i need to use it so i can keep generating HP, but is it a good style to focus on tanks on non-raid damage phases, and go for HR+HS+LoD on damage phases?

There is any stats change that would be interesting with this approach?
(I think i will keep EF talent anyway, just change play style, it seems Selfless healer is too weak with the uncalled nerf, and shield is just healing for too little to be really useful, but i'm not sure yet, might want to test selfless healer, it has potential to tank healing, but i see why its called a bad talent right now.)
Or is EF the only way to really produce acceptable HPS numbers as a paladin?

Thank you.


LoD is decent and is easier to use than EF. However, if you really want top HPS, you need to master EF blanketing.

EF is better at mitigating raid spike damage especially in 10 mans, just set up proper healing assignments so you don't overlap with your peers.

Also, always assign yourself to tank healing and only raid heal as needed. Keep your other raid healers focused on raid healing.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7750
You contradict yourself.
EF blanketing is raid healing...

You talk about mastering EF blanketing, now i ask you, how to do it efficiently without T14-4pc, when the raid is topped most of the time?

I can roll 1 HP EF on the entire raid without any problem, and i can keep track of all HoTs too.
But this produce very weak HPS if its all overheal.

A full EF rolling will generate ~85k of shield in my gear with 3 HP.
With 1 HP it generates ~28k of shield.

Even if i keep this on the entire Raid, its only 9.5k worth of HPS.
(Supposing 100% overhealing, but 100% use of all shields, and keeping then up with 1 HP on 10 targets every 30 sec, so they never fall, and thats almost impossible without 4pc-t14, because you cant realistically generate 1HP/3sec without burning your mana really fast on overheals of either DL on Beacon or HR on stacked full group)

So using EF on people without actual damage is a net loss of HPS.
I'm an experienced theorycrafter, so i'd really like to understand what people are actually doing to generate those HPS numbers, because math wise it seems that its impossible if your raid doesn't take enough damage.

If you keep EF with 1HP on the entire raid, and 0% of overheal you will do ~37k of HPS on EF.

I fail to see how this can produce 75k+ worth of HPS.
Yes with low overhealing EF is a net gain of HPS for sure, but keeping everyone with 1HP EF seems a loss because of constant overhealing.

Now please explain me, what you call "mastered EF blanketing", because as i see math wise it seems pretty bad.
The only viable style seems to pool HP, and only use it on people that took enough damage to the initial heal of EF to not overheal, and never use EF if the initial heal will be mostly overhealing.

And that is really far from a EF "blanketing" and more like a normal EF healing.
Edited by Sátán on 4/14/2013 3:19 PM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
12280
You don't need to EF blanket the entire raid, just "try" to cast a 3 holy power EF the tanks, and yourself primarily. After that, you can EF anyone else you want from then on, just as long you can maintain EF on tanks and yourself. The main niche of EF blanketing is the absorb it leaves on them as well, so it's not completely "overhealing" is more like healing insurance, also the EF ticks transfer to the Beacon, so whoever you have beaconed has a less chance of dying.

One thing I'd like to note, is that you will not reach 75k hps on every fight you do, some fights are just not built for us, depending on how you do the encounters etc. Fights where everyone stacks on top of eachother is where we shine most (jin'rokh, megeara, etc.) Also, running out of mana on Megeara is fairly common, it's a pretty heal intensive fight, and I believe it's worse on 10 man.

Looking at your opening post too, it seems like you were using a lot of "less useful" talents as well. Light's Hammer is up every Rampage, and Eternal Flame blows away Sacred Shield for holy paladins by a huge margin.

For Holy Power Generation, casually casting Divine Light on whoever is your beacon, or since you have the glyph, beacon switch to whoever you need healed and Divine Light said injured raid member for effective healing and a charge of Holy Power (plus a big chunk of Illuminated healing). Keep holy shock on CD, use holy radiance when the raid needs to stack, or you see melee+tanks tanking damage, and they're fairly close to each other, followed by a Holy Shock for the daybreak proc.

Sorry for how I worded this out, it's kinda messy but there's one thing I'd like to point out...Don't worry about overheals! Don't worry about overheals, don't worry about overheals don't worry about overhea- you get the idea right? Good!

*side note, looking at your gear, to me, it seems kinda...badly itemized, where most of your gear doesn't have mastery and spirit as its secondaries. It's not a big problem, but it could be causing some of the issues you're having with mana, try to get more spirit when you get the chance for more gear. Hope this advice helps ya.
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90 Human Paladin
3420
You contradict yourself.
EF blanketing is raid healing...

You talk about mastering EF blanketing, now i ask you, how to do it efficiently without T14-4pc, when the raid is topped most of the time?

I can roll 1 HP EF on the entire raid without any problem, and i can keep track of all HoTs too.
But this produce very weak HPS if its all overheal.

A full EF rolling will generate ~85k of shield in my gear with 3 HP.
With 1 HP it generates ~28k of shield.

Even if i keep this on the entire Raid, its only 9.5k worth of HPS.
(Supposing 100% overhealing, but 100% use of all shields, and keeping then up with 1 HP on 10 targets every 30 sec, so they never fall, and thats almost impossible without 4pc-t14, because you cant realistically generate 1HP/3sec without burning your mana really fast on overheals of either DL on Beacon or HR on stacked full group)

So using EF on people without actual damage is a net loss of HPS.
I'm an experienced theorycrafter, so i'd really like to understand what people are actually doing to generate those HPS numbers, because math wise it seems that its impossible if your raid doesn't take enough damage.

If you keep EF with 1HP on the entire raid, and 0% of overheal you will do ~37k of HPS on EF.

I fail to see how this can produce 75k+ worth of HPS.
Yes with low overhealing EF is a net gain of HPS for sure, but keeping everyone with 1HP EF seems a loss because of constant overhealing.

Now please explain me, what you call "mastered EF blanketing", because as i see math wise it seems pretty bad.
The only viable style seems to pool HP, and only use it on people that took enough damage to the initial heal of EF to not overheal, and never use EF if the initial heal will be mostly overhealing.

And that is really far from a EF "blanketing" and more like a normal EF healing.


EF blanketing is tank healing with the side effect of raid healing. 1/2 of your EF ticks are transferred to the Beaconed tank, which is why you assign yourself to tank healing.

If you are truly an "experienced theorycrafter" you shouldn't even be here asking for advice.

On the flip side, every top pally parse in world of logs, especially by top healers like Aladya, has EF as one of the top healing done besides Illuminated Healing.

If you are overhealing that much in raids, it means it's time to drop healers because you are running more heals than you need.

Lastly, here's some math:

Assuming a basic rotation of Holy Radiance -> EF -> Holy Shock -> EF -> repeat

and
Holy Shock heals for 40k
EF heals for 25k and ticks for 5k 13 times per HP
Holy Radiance hits for 30k and hits 2 other targets on average for another 30k
Daybreak heals for 40k as well
You have 30% mastery and 20% haste

Assuming 0% overheal
The rotation heals for 555k over 5.6 seconds. This is slightly under 100k hps. Factoring crit, Heroism, throughput cooldowns like DF and AW, DP, trinket and IoL procs, the rotation does 120k pure hps.

Assuming 50% overheal(a situation where you really need to drop a healer), the rotation does 60k pure hps.

Assuming 25% overheal, which is the optimal level of overhealing, you should do 90k hps.

And this isn't the best rotation to EF blanket either, there are better rotations which give far higher hps.

So if you are running into problems getting higher than 75k hps, your raid comp is the issue, or your rotation and mastery of the class is the issue.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7750

EF blanketing is tank healing with the side effect of raid healing. 1/2 of your EF ticks are transferred to the Beaconed tank, which is why you assign yourself to tank healing.

If you are truly an "experienced theorycrafter" you shouldn't even be here asking for advice.

On the flip side, every top pally parse in world of logs, especially by top healers like Aladya, has EF as one of the top healing done besides Illuminated Healing.

If you are overhealing that much in raids, it means it's time to drop healers because you are running more heals than you need.

Lastly, here's some math:

Assuming a basic rotation of Holy Radiance -> EF -> Holy Shock -> EF -> repeat

and
Holy Shock heals for 40k
EF heals for 25k and ticks for 5k 13 times per HP
Holy Radiance hits for 30k and hits 2 other targets on average for another 30k
Daybreak heals for 40k as well
You have 30% mastery and 20% haste

Assuming 0% overheal
The rotation heals for 555k over 5.6 seconds. This is slightly under 100k hps. Factoring crit, Heroism, throughput cooldowns like DF and AW, DP, trinket and IoL procs, the rotation does 120k pure hps.


40+25+65+60+40*1.3 = 299 not 555 =X For a total of ~63k HPS, again lower then 75k, obviously without crit, lust, and cd's.



Assuming 50% overheal(a situation where you really need to drop a healer), the rotation does 60k pure hps.

Assuming 25% overheal, which is the optimal level of overhealing, you should do 90k hps.

And this isn't the best rotation to EF blanket either, there are better rotations which give far higher hps.

So if you are running into problems getting higher than 75k hps, your raid comp is the issue, or your rotation and mastery of the class is the issue.


Thank you for your time.
But you act a little to aggressive to my taste, seriously stop trying to imply others are bad because they are asking for advice, i just changed to this class, and yes i want to learn as fast as i can, and the best way to do so is by asking more experienced players, what you are doing is trying to think high of yourself and try to imply that i suck, and that is pathetic.

Yes, i'm an experienced theorycrafter, and that is exactly why i'm here asking.
Research is much better then starting the whole work based solely on your experience, and your tests, if you get more information that is already tested by a huge sample of player, you can conduct narrowed experiments, and have better ground to work with math to solve your question.

Your post was really helpful, and your rotation was exactly what i was working with today in my number crushing, so it seems that my calculations were almost right, since i reached a result similar to the one you are advocating here. ( Not in numerical sense, because at that you failed, but at this being one of the best rotations possible, if you can apply a rotation to healing... )

I'd like to ask you what is the "better rotation" then this one?
Could you explain to me what is the best rotation that can produce higher HPS results?
I would be grateful for your help if you could enlighten us with your way of healing.
Edited by Sátán on 4/15/2013 2:32 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
18460
But you act a little to aggressive to my taste, seriously stop trying to imply others are bad because they are asking for advice, i just changed to this class, and yes i want to learn as fast as i can, and the best way to do so is by asking more experienced players, what you are doing is trying to think high of yourself and try to imply that i suck, and that is pathetic.


Welcome to the World of Warcraft class forums.

I wish I could help you out, but I don't have experience healing at that level. The Holy 'rotation' isn't very complicated, pretty sure it's the same at all raid levels and I'm sure you've worked it out. The thing that will 'hurt' your numbers is having too many healers. Short of being aggressive with your healing, there's probably not a whole lot you can do. If the damage is low or you have too many cooks in the kitchen, it's going to look like you aren't doing as well as you should. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
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90 Human Priest
3470

40+25+65+60+40*1.3 = 299 not 555 =X For a total of ~63k HPS, again lower then 75k, obviously without crit, lust, and cd's.


You left out beacon of light healing, and you forgot to multiply the EF healing by two because the rotation I listed out had 2 EFs, not 1.


Thank you for your time.
But you act a little to aggressive to my taste, seriously stop trying to imply others are bad because they are asking for advice, i just changed to this class, and yes i want to learn as fast as i can, and the best way to do so is by asking more experienced players, what you are doing is trying to think high of yourself and try to imply that i suck, and that is pathetic.

Oh? I didn't know you needed everything to be sugarcoated and put in frilly ribbons for your liking. Sorry, I should have known when you got all defensive and started saying I contradicted myself and you claimed yourself to be an "experienced theorycrafter" but fail to see the connection between beacon of light and EF blanketing.


Yes, i'm an experienced theorycrafter, and that is exactly why i'm here asking.
Research is much better then starting the whole work based solely on your experience, and your tests, if you get more information that is already tested by a huge sample of player, you can conduct narrowed experiments, and have better ground to work with math to solve your question.


That is what world of logs is for.


Your post was really helpful, and your rotation was exactly what i was working with today in my number crushing, so it seems that my calculations were almost right, since i reached a result similar to the one you are advocating here. ( Not in numerical sense, because at that you failed, but at this being one of the best rotations possible, if you can apply a rotation to healing... )

Except I didn't calculate wrongly. You did "fail in the numerical sense", though, when you forgot to add in Beacon healing and double EF rather than single EF.


I'd like to ask you what is the "better rotation" then this one?
Could you explain to me what is the best rotation that can produce higher HPS results?
I would be grateful for your help if you could enlighten us with your way of healing.


Holy Radiance -> Holy Shock -> 2 HP EF -> Repeat

Holy Radiance -> Holy Shock -> Holy Radiance -> 3 HP EF -> Holy Shock -> Holy Radiance -> Filler spell like Holy Light -> Holy Shock -> 3 HP EF

Instead of keeping mana consumption low, you maximize GCDs to put out more healing.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7750


You left out beacon of light healing, and you forgot to multiply the EF healing by two because the rotation I listed out had 2 EFs, not 1.


You are correct in this, i had made the calculations solely based on the described healing amount you declared, and failed to remember about the above indication of 2 EF, even if i had acknowledged that 2 different EF's happens inside the rotation, that is my mistake.

40+25+65+25+65+30+30+40*1.3

(40+25+65+25+65+40*0.5) + (30+30*0.15)

416k of healing plus 139k of Beacon = 555k

But i'd like to remember you that part of this healing, including both HS, Daybreak and some targets of HR will be the beacon target so not giving the Beacon extra HPS.


Oh? I didn't know you needed everything to be sugarcoated and put in frilly ribbons for your liking. Sorry, I should have known when you got all defensive and started saying I contradicted myself and you claimed yourself to be an "experienced theorycrafter" but fail to see the connection between beacon of light and EF blanketing.


I'd like to remember you that Beacon of Light is our biggest source of overhealing, going for as up as 60% depending on fight and raid composition.

Also i'd like to point you that healing a Paladin Tank will cause your beacon to overheal more because of the big amount of self healing they produce if correctly played in a haste heavy build.

Now about your offensive behavior, no you don't need to sugarcoat things, but you need to act with due respect for other persons, you might think that because you are hiding behind a computer screen that you can be arrogant and act like a jerk, but that cant be most far from the truth.

If you want to offend someone that is posting asking for kindness and help in a sincere way, then i shall show you that your little inflated ego bubble cannot stand a reality shock.

You sir act as you were a great healer, when in fact you are way less then you brag about.
I'd like to point for your raid bot rankings http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/frostmourne/pospospos/

Horridon: 27k
Council: 49k / 42k
Tortos: 52k
Maegara: 70k
Jin-Kun: 45k
Durumu: 42k
... I will not keep going anyone can go and see for themselves, but one thing is clear, you are a below average paladin for most of the fights, mostly in the last 40 or even 25 percentile.

Seriously those are the numbers i'm trying to avoid producing...
I can do that and better with 12 ilvl lower, and without t14 bonus.

And i agree "That is what world of logs is for." its a great tool, and we can see much of what is the truth behind things by the wise use of it.



Holy Radiance -> Holy Shock -> 2 HP EF -> Repeat

Holy Radiance -> Holy Shock -> Holy Radiance -> 3 HP EF -> Holy Shock -> Holy Radiance -> Filler spell like Holy Light -> Holy Shock -> 3 HP EF

Instead of keeping mana consumption low, you maximize GCDs to put out more healing.


This part was effective productive answer to my thread, the rest is only you trying to pass as way better then you are.

So i give my thanks for your time of posting this helpful piece of information.

I would suggest you to keep the helpful parts of your post, and avoid this attempts to reduce others that you know nothing about.
You seem to know the basics of theorycrafting, and have a descent grasp of the theory behind your class, but losing your time here in the forums acting the way you are is a loss of mine, yours, and everyone else here time.

Just help out of kindness, and don't act like you are a better player then the ones here asking for help, because many times you will end being the one that isn't a really good player...
Edited by Sátán on 4/15/2013 7:02 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7750
I'd like to apologize for everyone else that had seen this useless discussion between me and Pospospos, as well as apologize to Pospospos for any rudeness i might had let escape me, he was VERY helpful, and indeed showed some useful knowledge of his class, but this gives him no right to be disrespectful, and i might had gone to far to show my indignation with the way he made his posts.

I'm very grateful for all the help here, i will continue to work on better healing strategies.
Most probably i will start by creating a spreadsheet with my heals, and work on a mathematical level of best theorical rotations starting for the bases of what was discussed here.
I expect with some practice, some hard work with numbers, and some more raiding experience with this paladin, i can come up with my personal style of healing as fast as possible.

I'd still like to hear different opinions, "rotations", and healing strategies that people use to achieve numbers over 65k on all bosses.

Again thank you for your help.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
18460
No need to apologize, some people around here are all about backhanded help. That's their deficiency, not yours.
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