Any 10-man priests give up on holy?

90 Human Priest
6460
I'd usually relate to the holy play style better than disc but the power of disc can not be denied. I don't want to play it but it outperforms holy on most fights (perhaps not durumu?), 1 minute spirit shell is godly, and atonement healing is just silly on some fights.

Holy just feels too mana restricted but a big part of the problem in 10-man is chakra restrictions. In 25 man you can just stay in santuary to aoe heal the whole time (accept something like horridon last phase) but in 10-man you generally have to swap or strictly stay in serenity since you have to cover so much tank healing. However this gimps your aoe potential (holy's strongest area IMO) 25% and you can not swap around chakra as you please with that 30 second cooldown as well as consistently high dmg on the tank(s) that you need to help your co-healer with. So when there is lots of tank dmg happening but also pulses of aoe dmg you generally have to take the 25% hit to your aoe for the sake of the tank(s).

It seems like holy is more frustrating to play in 10-man compared to disc because of greater mana restrictions and innability to swap chakras as needed. Most priests I see that do 10-mans are disc and it seems obvious why. BTW I don't feel that holy is bad I just think the chakra system is outdated for 10-mans specifically and that thier mana regen could use something more.
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90 Draenei Priest
9210
Combination of Chakra being overly punishing in 10 man and 5.2 Atonement being excellent at compensating for Disc's old weakness (random raid damage). At best Holy is on par with Disc (except maybe 10H Tortos), at worst it's far inferior. I could spec Disc / Shadow this tier and I don't think I'm miss it.

Plus Disc is a really really fun spec now.
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90 Human Priest
17730
I'm the opposite...i'm leaning more towards holy right now.

Since I got better gear, spirit isn't nearly as much of an issue so I can last through an entire fight as holy now.

I like holy for fights where I am expected to top people off quick, especially 2 healing. Holy feels "safer" on these high damage/aoe fights.
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90 Human Priest
8460
Holy seems to be very very gear dependent. Holy puts you in a wierd position on 10 mans. It feels like you need both Chakras at the same time. If you have a strong paladin or great tank heals than Sanc chakra is good but I find my self having to spam heals on the tank a lot in 2 healed encounters.

You can run a serenity haste breakpoint 2 build if your other healer can't keep up tanks but this spec feels like a mana hog.
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90 Undead Priest
7260
I'm the opposite...i'm leaning more towards holy right now.

Since I got better gear, spirit isn't nearly as much of an issue so I can last through an entire fight as holy now.

I like holy for fights where I am expected to top people off quick, especially 2 healing. Holy feels "safer" on these high damage/aoe fights.


I feel this way too, having been Disc all MoP and just went holy two weeks ago.

After a bit of adjusting, I *feel* holy is much more capable a spec. Let me give some examples (from a 10m perspective):

Megera - With our healing comp (Hpally/rdruid or rshammy) rampages are a joke. But the spread aoe healing late in the poison explosion phase, disc lacks the raw healing output to keep the raid up. Once you've used PW:S and WS is on your targets, and cascade is on CD, you have no way to move those health bars back up. As holy, you have many more options. Specc'd into DI, and rolling PoH/CoH on groups while in Sanc, you can provide HUGE sustained HPS and completely stabilize the raid. Not to mention lightwell should somebody get low.

Dark Animus - Holy really pulls ahead in the final phase of the fight, when Dark Animus starts to AOE near the end of the fight. Matter swaps are still going out, and again, sustained AOE is needed. Same strat as Megeara... PoM, CoH, PoH for keeping the raid topped off. Lightwell (glyphed) is also amazing in getting matter swapped players up fast.

Iron Qon - When soaking the fire debuffs, and 3 people are taking large amounts of damage, Disc has a hard time keeping people up. Offensive penance may or may not hit your group / defensive penance doesn't hit hard enough. PWS takes 3 globals and gets eaten through too quickly, leaving you with 3 targets with weaklend soul. All your direct heals hit for 25% less than holy in serenity. Grace is impossible to stack on 3 targets at once. Holy is infinitely better. Sit in serenity chakra, renew the 3 people who are stacking, and binding heal away. You'll refresh your fantastic renew on you AND your target. BH x 2, leaves EoL, fully stacks serendpity that allows a very strong/cheap Gheal on a 3rd target should it be needed (which can in turn proc a super DI/PoM). Holy is also much better in Phase 4 in dealing with IQ's sustained AoE.
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90 Undead Priest
7260
I don't feel that holy is bad I just think the chakra system is outdated for 10-mans specifically and that thier mana regen could use something more.


I used to feel the same way too.

Until I got comfortable with Renew + Cascade in Serenity Chakra.

Renew (glyphed and when you're at the 2nd haste breakpoint) is mana efficient, and heals for a lot. It easily smooths out damge. It's also easy to toss a few out while maintaining renew with heal on your tanks. Spot healing with HW:Serenity as needed.

I only go Sanc when serious AOE is going out, otherwise I camp in Serenity and roll renews.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
11255
I only go Sanc when serious AOE is going out, otherwise I camp in Serenity and roll renews.


There's a lot of mass AE in the last half of ToT. However, I'm not sure Sanctuary is even necessary then.

Glyph'd Binding Heal + PoH in Serenity is more hps than PoH + PoH in Sanctuary. While the BH only heals 3/5ths of your own party (if you manage the smart heal portion correctly), you do have another healer to cover that gap.

Serenity is also a lot more mana efficient than Sanctuary is. So it really comes down to whether you have enough 'Serenity time' to offset the higher cost you spend for 'Sanctuary time'.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
04/21/2013 11:19 AMPosted by Medeyn
While the BH only heals 3/5ths of your own party (if you manage the smart heal portion correctly), you do have another healer to cover that gap.


Glyph of Binding Heal's heal isn't smart. It is based solely on location of the person to you. It will favor a completely uninjured target over another one just a step away if the uninjured person is closer to you by a hair.
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90 Undead Priest
7260
04/21/2013 11:19 AMPosted by Medeyn
I only go Sanc when serious AOE is going out, otherwise I camp in Serenity and roll renews.


There's a lot of mass AE in the last half of ToT. However, I'm not sure Sanctuary is even necessary then.


There's a good amount of AoE, but only in the final boss phases (IQ phase 4 for example) It's easy to switch to Sanc and just stay there until the end.

At least that's what I've been doing.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10625
I actually just rerolled from holy paladin back to holy priest. HOLYPRIEST4LIFE.

(Really, it's an amazing and underappreciated spec. Still not a fan of how Chakra works, but I'll do anything to have my beloved PoH/PoM/Renew back.)
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90 Undead Priest
7260
CoH+PoH+DI'd PoM is spectacular
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10625
CoH+PoH+DI'd PoM is spectacular

oh my God, DI PoM is officially my favourite thing in the entire game.
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90 Human Priest
16665
I'm optimally geared for holy and I've been considering just dropping the spec. I did a pretty good comparison between the two specs: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8518012861
But if I can get away with the lower amount of disc aoe throughput, it's more often my go to.

For the record, I don't really have this huge preference for discipline, but I do have a lot more control with proactive heals (all classes can be proactive but at the end of the day it's disc>druid>monk>holy priest>paladin>shaman for that comparison). And holy is good for burst healing (moreso with the broken divine insight), serendipity abuse, and healing outside of the party restriction. But the party restriction isn't that glaring this tier. And the burst this tier is more often some sort of debuff or timer I could handle with an absorb instead of just random damage.

The shorter chakra cooldown would really make me rethink the usefulness of the spec. Circle of healing needs to be balanced mana-wise, holy word: sanctuary needs to do something more than healing, and holy word: serenity needs to leave a throughput buff on the target, not a critical healing buff. But those are pet peeves.
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90 Pandaren Priest
12820
It depends on the fight. The big issue I see with Holy is what Twisted mentioned above. The only area it excels at significantly more compared to Disc is in the sustained AoE department, and in some cases burst AoE department. Disc is arguably better at handling burst AoE situations in many ToT encounters due to SS/PW:S blanketing, and how SS lines up with such mechanics in some fights. It isn't exactly dragging you down depending on the type of sustained AoE damage involved in some ToT fights either. It also brings damage and raises the effective health of everyone, two things Holy cannot do (well, Holy can do damage but it's not great at doing damage while outputting optimal healing in most situations, whereas Disc is right now).

It's still not a terrible spec. It's just hard to justify it in 10 mans for most encounters right now because it's strong points aren't needed in many of them.
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90 Human Priest
10975
I raid 10m exclusively as holy this tier, and have only been disc for one of our heroic kills. I love it, and it's been my preferred spec since vanilla. We do raid with 3 healers, but I feel like a lot of our fights could comfortably be healed with 2.

Mana is still something that I have to watch. However with better gear, and this ungodly meta I won't say that mana is no longer an issue, but it's been a lot easier to manage and has opened up some different stats choices. Such as indulging in my love for crit as holy this tier without having my spirit suffer.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
I raid 10m exclusively as holy this tier, and have only been disc for one of our heroic kills. I love it, and it's been my preferred spec since vanilla. We do raid with 3 healers, but I feel like a lot of our fights could comfortably be healed with 2.

Mana is still something that I have to watch. However with better gear, and this ungodly meta I won't say that mana is no longer an issue, but it's been a lot easier to manage and has opened up some different stats choices. Such as indulging in my love for crit as holy this tier without having my spirit suffer.


Why crit for holy?
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90 Draenei Priest
9210
Why crit for holy?

If you make heavy use of Renew rolling, crit is the stat-of-choice (once you hit the desired haste threshold, of course). Renew only benefits from mastery on the initial application, making it of negligible value.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
So you shouldn't use the 4722 haste breakpoint with glyphed renew and instead using 3039 haste breakpoint with unglyphed?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
11255
So you shouldn't use the 4722 haste breakpoint with glyphed renew and instead using 3039 haste breakpoint with unglyphed?


Ignoring the initial heal, 4-tick glyph'd heals for 133% of a standard Renew while 5-tick unglyph'd heals for 120% of a standard Renew.

However, refreshing changes this dynamic some.

Let's say you refresh after the second tick. For glyph'd Renew, you'd end up with 8 ticks of 33% more. For unglyph'd Renew, you'd end up with 8 ticks of standard healing. So you'll have 33% more healing from glyph'd Renew.

Another way to look at it is if you refresh at the very last instant (before the final tick). For glyph'd Renew, you'd end up with a total of 9 ticks at 33% more each. The unglyph'd would be 10 ticks at standard healing. The difference here would be a 20% advantage to glyph'd Renew.

There's also the discount rate on HoT to consider. In general, ticks in the future are less valuable than ticks in the present. You're pretty sure those first two ticks are going to do something useful. You're not so sure about the ticks 10 sec out. While the exact value of this discount rate is well beyond the scope here, even a modest guesstimate would further enhance the value of glyph'd Renew.

Note: Binding Heal is indeed not a 'smart' heal. Perhaps it would be better to refer to the heal as an 'extra' heal. In any case, the given example was a raid-wide AE, so we're pretty sure it hit a target that needs healing.
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045
I'm the opposite...i'm leaning more towards holy right now.

Since I got better gear, spirit isn't nearly as much of an issue so I can last through an entire fight as holy now.

I like holy for fights where I am expected to top people off quick, especially 2 healing. Holy feels "safer" on these high damage/aoe fights.


Yup, this is why I took Holy as my offspec. I plan on making use of Holy in a few fights in ToT.

Holy is completely viable iff you have the correct gear for it. It just feels much more gear dependent to me.
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