Shaman need compensation for DH/Tran/Rev buff

90 Blood Elf Paladin
11435
The changes they are making to Tranq, DH, and Revival are already doing the same thing that you describe to the 10/25 split. Doing any of these changes may be a terrible idea, but making these changes to the "tranq like abilities" of 3 classes and leaving a fourth holding the bag is the height of idiocy. Either all of the buffs should be scrapped, or they need to give HTT the same treatment.


I doubt highly they will scrap it for way too many reasons. May the target cap be decreased? Maybe. But it will be 5 again? I doubt it a lot.

I honestly think it was oversight considering they saw HTT as a talent and thus why didn't touch it for now. But did they completely forget? From GC's tweet I don't think so in my opinion.

But to be honest a buff like this has never, ever been scrapped for the sake of one spec. If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

Give it time. The only thing that I see as potentially problematic is the non healer cd version of tranquility but maybe it will make it par with other powerful os healing cd's.
Edited by Marathel on 4/22/2013 7:24 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
Why is there even a need to increase the target cap? These cooldowns scale based on the fact that you have more of them in a 25-man. Increasing the target cap whilst having more of them results in double scaling, and saturates 25-mans with far too many raid CDs.
Edited by Ceddya on 4/22/2013 7:39 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Warrior
17430
Why is there even a need to increase the target cap? These cooldowns scale based on the fact that you have more of them in a 25-man. Increasing the target cap whilst having more of them results in doubt healing, and saturates 25-mans with far too many raid CDs.


I'm guessing mostly because its easier than making other cooldowns (like devo aura) scale down in 25 man and also doesn't result in anyone being weaker than they are now in a 25 man.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
Why is there even a need to increase the target cap? These cooldowns scale based on the fact that you have more of them in a 25-man. Increasing the target cap whilst having more of them results in doubt healing, and saturates 25-mans with far too many raid CDs.


The argument they would have (that I don't really agree with) is that DR type CDs like AM, Barrier and Smoke Bomb scale directly to the size of the raid in terms of their value and the damage they reduce, while healing target based raid CDs grow proportionately weaker, which then negatively impacts the raid utility contribution of healers that depend on them.

It is absolutely going to result in massive heal sniping, it is going to trivialize Rampage type mechanics, it is going to result in raids being able to drop healers (since so much of the threatening damage and healing requirements are in burst periods this tier), and you will see Shaman in particular suffer the most from the increased overhealing and reduced value of their mastery (on top of being excluded from the buffs despite having a CD with nearly identical mechanics to the other 3).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11435
It is absolutely going to result in massive heal sniping, it is going to trivialize Rampage type mechanics, it is going to result in raids being able to drop healers (since so much of the threatening damage and healing requirements are in burst periods this tier), and you will see Shaman in particular suffer the most from the increased overhealing and reduced value of their mastery (on top of being excluded from the buffs despite having a CD with nearly identical mechanics to the other 3).


This is what these new very powerful VE's make me worry about and it will honestly make 25 man normals easier so to speak for in these new caps far more healing is capable. OS tranq's while 8 mins will be a bit more powerful too.

I think they will test it out and adjust the target cap accordingly(hopefully). One could argue it was needed or not needed. AM could be amazing in some fights or completely useless in others.

Barrier needs you to be stacked up and so forth.

I do agree completely with you though regarding guilds at the edge of progression. They already use less healers whenever possible and with these buffs it might allow for more dps stackings. It's a lot of if's but it certainly seems a high possibility.
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100 Worgen Druid
12220
Meh, wont even need to use tranq with super shrooms.

These notes made me laugh, was like some developer was like "you want burst? ILL GIVE YOU BURST"

A SOTF tranq switching 60 direct heals between lowest health targets over 5 seconds, all with stacking HOTs... lol
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/22/2013 7:37 PM PDT
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100 Worgen Druid
12220
Also, letting non-resto Druids access to this is ridiculous. I already think it is out of whack having balance Druids have significantly stronger tranquility than the healing spec.

Now HOTW will become mandatory and a raid CD, which is especially silly in the light of GCs commentary on HTT not becoming a mandatory talent.
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90 Draenei Shaman
15180
To be honest, if HTT being a talent is their excuse for not scaling it up, I don't see why they don't just do the same thing for AG. Scale HTT to 12 targets, AG to 7. Might not be much of a choice, but better than leaving them at 5 and 3.
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100 Tauren Shaman
HC
17440
Also, letting non-resto Druids access to this is ridiculous. I already think it is out of whack having balance Druids have significantly stronger tranquility than the healing spec.

Now HOTW will become mandatory and a raid CD, which is especially silly in the light of GCs commentary on HTT not becoming a mandatory talent.


Isn't hotw the best dps talent now as well w/ such high int levels? So they lose nothing
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10440
In before "What you're talking us into is nerfing Healing Tide, Huff huff huff grrrrfaw!"

A guidance buff where it hits more than 3 targets would be interesting to see to maybe...maybe, balance out the talent tier. Still the healing would have to be increased as well to compete with HTT.

Conductivity is just bad.

At the same time its the dev's fault that the talents are mandatory this way. Feel's a bit like being penalized for them creating the talents unbalanced and mandatory?
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90 Tauren Shaman
15790
Isn't hotw the best dps talent now as well w/ such high int levels? So they lose nothing


Vigil on Damage Amplifier fights, HoTW on non-dmg amp fights.

04/23/2013 06:33 AMPosted by Xanaxer
Conductivity is just bad.


Kill the talent its not worth saving, give an option tank cooldown in that tier in line with say, Pain Supp.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Does anyone think that the devs watched the Simpsons episode where they just keep getting something bigger to kill the last thing that was a problem?
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
Just read the OP. Then raid GC's twitter comment paraphasing "shamans don't need buff in 25's, making HTT more powerful in 25's just exacerbates how much weaker they are in 10's"

It's funny because they buffed the spells that help 25 man the most recent. Lulz.

Until there is a good spread healing tool shaman will always be weaker in 10 man. The niche they buffed was specifically melee/tank healing in 25 man, but only applies well to entire raid stacking in 10 man.

While the glyphs of riptide/chain heal COULD be buffed to help fix that issue. In the end what shaman need is a button that answers the plea... "HR is not viable on this fight, let me cast something else that consumes HR's CD and covers the spread plz." Until then 10 man shamans will never be able to unseat priest+pally as equally viable in 10H progression... unless 25 man shamans are just insane.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
17990
Does anyone think that the devs watched the Simpsons episode where they just keep getting something bigger to kill the last thing that was a problem?


LOL
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12985
It's indeed a sad story those new patch note and those twiter from goastcrawly.

If and i say IF the change they do to 25 man cd goes live it's gonna be really hard in my opinion to justify a spot to those resto shammy in 25 man. So far on the 3 thread we got for spread healing trouble of shammy the argument of other player and classes was that shammy bring way better cd then other. sure it's take some one in the bottom barrel so other can pile on them to get their head out and breathed. But on any way you bring this crawlygoshty ;-) you gonna creat a big monster by not doing a thing to help us back.

the issue with spread healing need a spell rework from one we all ready have. I feel unleash element is a good contented for that. that would make us less OP in arena/pvp without the 30% increase healing and give us one more aoe spell that work in large distance witch again will not make us OP in pvp a think. Would remove the clunkyness of always casting UE befor healing rain witch is stupid rotation imo.

htt goes base line and need to be brought to near same level of what you gonna bring DH, revival and tranq in 25. if by doing so you need to make it a channel spell go for it. make the spell base line and replace by something else in the talent tree.

conductivity is a bad talent imo not fun to use because of the little to no healing it does.

the patch 5.3 is what about 1 month from now maybe. I doubt the change will stay are they but iff you buff druid healer witch they need. plz don't forget us.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12615
Resto shaman are obviously lacking in terms of spread healing. We've dealt. Resto shaman are only marginally better at stack healing than the other classes. We've dealt. Resto shaman pale in comparison to paladins for tank healing. All healers have dealt with this since Vanilla. The one huge strength Shaman have had is in their cool downs. Bar none, HTT is the single strongest healing cool down in the game. Combining this with Ascendance and SLT allowed shaman to shine this tier when it was most needed. Indirectly nerfing shaman's biggest (only) strength when they're already so behind in other areas isn't balanced or fair. I don't care if they buff HTT or whatever else, but something should be done. Maybe they could actually take this opportunity and fix our spread healing? A man can dream, I guess =/
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
04/23/2013 07:43 AMPosted by Convictfish
Isn't hotw the best dps talent now as well w/ such high int levels? So they lose nothing


Vigil on Damage Amplifier fights, HoTW on non-dmg amp fights.

04/23/2013 06:33 AMPosted by Xanaxer
Conductivity is just bad.


Kill the talent its not worth saving, give an option tank cooldown in that tier in line with say, Pain Supp.


That is a terrible idea, because that would end up giving us an option between having (marginally) competitive throughput and a real raid CD or having a tank cooldown, when every other spec is given both baseline.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10440
I would be curious to see what they are seeing with these changes on the PTR. Hopefully....devs see the same thing and attempt to scale the changes accordingly.

You went full Moon Moon, Never go full Moon Moon.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
I would be curious to see what they are seeing with these changes on the PTR. Hopefully....devs see the same thing and attempt to scale the changes accordingly.

You went full Moon Moon, Never go full Moon Moon.


There is no new raid content to be tested, so there will be almost no guilds on the PTR testing any of this stuff. They will probably just put it live, find out Shaman are even more boned than they were at the start of 5.2 and hotfix in another Healing Rain buff or something.
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90 Tauren Priest
0
Healing Rain should be a 500 yard AoE in 25m and not diminish until 15 targets. That's basically what they're trying to turn healing into with these Tranq/DH buffs anyway.
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