Shaman need compensation for DH/Tran/Rev buff

100 Draenei Priest
14740
Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd like to see a glyph that significantly increases the range of healing rain (at least a 40 yard radius) while somewhat decreasing the healing effect. That way shamans could choose depending on the fight.
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100 Human Priest
17310
It would be cool if you could throw your chain heal into a healing totem or something and instead of smart healing it created a positional wave of healing in a cone pointing away from the line that you, the caster, and the totem create. It would be even more fun if you could if spiritwalker's grace cd was lowered and you could spin around your totem and make the chain heal wave a circle or a bigger area of effect. Iono, that's one way to fix the weakness with spread healing without forcing riptide spam.
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100 Orc Shaman
HC
17450
It would be cool if you could throw your chain heal into a healing totem or something and instead of smart healing it created a positional wave of healing in a cone pointing away from the line that you, the caster, and the totem create. It would be even more fun if you could if spiritwalker's grace cd was lowered and you could spin around your totem and make the chain heal wave a circle or a bigger area of effect. Iono, that's one way to fix the weakness with spread healing without forcing riptide spam.


This idea made me laugh and sounds awesome at the same time.
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100 Human Priest
17310
shaman could be like firefighters yo! but no, I'm getting at what they're already doing. Most classes have some sort of positional awareness, but shaman are the only ones looking at the ground going, "will they stand in this if I put a circle here? It's really freaking important that I put this circle in the right place!" Might as well run with it and make totems part of the equation and say shaman are positional-based healers. I'd just be afraid it makes totemic projection more mandatory.
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The logical solution would be:

HTT heals 5 in 10m and 12 in 25m
AG heals 3 in 10m and 8 in 25m

Unfortunately Blizz + Shaman changes =/= Logic
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
04/24/2013 02:54 PMPosted by Sensations
It would be cool if you could throw your chain heal into a healing totem or something and instead of smart healing it created a positional wave of healing in a cone pointing away from the line that you, the caster, and the totem create. It would be even more fun if you could if spiritwalker's grace cd was lowered and you could spin around your totem and make the chain heal wave a circle or a bigger area of effect. Iono, that's one way to fix the weakness with spread healing without forcing riptide spam.


This idea made me laugh and sounds awesome at the same time.


agreed! <3

I'm on the list of people who doubt Blizz is going to introduce any new mechanics (or significantly adjust any already-existing mechanics beyond coefficients) but man, that'd be awesome ;)

Call it Rain Dance or something.
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90 Tauren Druid
8435
They're buffing healers who do not have significant raid wide DR CD's.

You have SLT. If you did not, you can bet your butt that HTT would have received the same treatment as tranq etc.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's a fact. DR cd's are superior, they buffed every raid CD for classes that do not have a raid wide DR CD.

And don't tell me, EVER, that a Shaman is not desirable because their CD's are weak. That is essentially what this thread is about.. Your class needs work to be sure. But your CD's are the one thing that does not need work at all. If anything, they're OP. (Balanced by the fact, you're not OP anywhere else)

But overall, these changes are a joke. I can see Tranq/DH/RV. But dps versions of tranq? VE? AG? (etc, whatever else they buffed for non healers)
What a joke.

Blizzard, just get rid of the healer role already. Atonement healing, fistweaving, DPS healing cooldowns? I can see the road we're going down and I don't like it.
Edited by Tonydanza on 4/24/2013 6:43 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Mage
17990
They're buffing healers who do not have significant raid wide DR CD's.


LOL
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100 Orc Shaman
HC
17450
You have SLT. If you did not, you can bet your butt that HTT would have received the same treatment as tranq etc.


Yea.... SLT isn't noted for it's mere 10% reduction, that's just a small laughable bonus.

And don't tell me, EVER, that a Shaman is not desirable because their CD's are weak. That is essentially what this thread is about.. Your class needs work to be sure. But your CD's are the one thing that does not need work at all. If anything, they're OP. (Balanced by the fact, you're not OP anywhere else)


Please stop.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12855
04/22/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Tiberria


You have 0 proof that Blizzard has a reason for why HTT was left out. Honestly given the current state of the game I would place my money on the fact that they just plain forgot.


Here is what GC said about it.

"We don't think Resto needs the buff in 25s, and we are loathe to make a popular talent even more popular."
"I see where you're coming from, but arguing us to buff a talent everyone already takes is going against our design intent."
"Debating it, but shaman have the opposite problem where they are proportionately stronger in 25s. HTT is also a talent."

He is willfully blind if he thinks Shaman will be fine in 25 man once these changes go live, but is pretty stuck on using the idiotic talent excuse not to buff it. Which is fine, I am fine with them not buffing the talent. However, I am not fine with them giving ridiculous and unwarranted buffs to other healing specs (that we are barely competitive with) without compensating us for the lost throughput and loss of relative utility.


God I had this horrible flash that instead of making non-moving stack fights like they did in DS, they're going to make horrible constant aoe damage to keep people below 40% HP so that shaman mastery will matter... thus other healers need to suddenly be able to deal with that since they don't have Deep Healing.

Oh god, that would be crazy.
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90 Tauren Druid
8435
04/24/2013 11:17 PMPosted by Sensations
You have SLT. If you did not, you can bet your butt that HTT would have received the same treatment as tranq etc.


Yea.... SLT isn't noted for it's mere 10% reduction, that's just a small laughable bonus.

And don't tell me, EVER, that a Shaman is not desirable because their CD's are weak. That is essentially what this thread is about.. Your class needs work to be sure. But your CD's are the one thing that does not need work at all. If anything, they're OP. (Balanced by the fact, you're not OP anywhere else)


Please stop.


Raid wide 10% DR is nothing to laugh at. Which happens to be 10% more raidwide that the other classes that I noted can bring. I'd ask for more than "Please stop" But then again, your name is sensations, and that'd be pretty much pointless. We all know you have nothing substantial to offer.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10440
It would be cool if you could throw your chain heal into a healing totem or something and instead of smart healing it created a positional wave of healing in a cone pointing away from the line that you, the caster, and the totem create. It would be even more fun if you could if spiritwalker's grace cd was lowered and you could spin around your totem and make the chain heal wave a circle or a bigger area of effect. Iono, that's one way to fix the weakness with spread healing without forcing riptide spam.


You are awesome. This idea is awesome.

Without all the craziness that would go into doing that. Having an actual "Healing Wave" like a slower moving tidal force on twins would be really cool. Something that travels 40 yards or so. I typically don't see this in the forums, but great idea.

Edit: Even better a tidal force where the shaman spins around while channelling and throws out "waves of healing" just like twins.
Edited by Xanaxer on 4/25/2013 6:17 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
16765
04/24/2013 06:41 PMPosted by Tonydanza
You have SLT. If you did not, you can bet your butt that HTT would have received the same treatment as tranq etc.


But I don't even like SLT. =(
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The 10% DR from SLT may be more than what a Druid or Holy priest can mitigate, but it still pales compared to Barrier an Devo. SLT's main attribute is the health distribution, which you could say 'scales' in 25m to an extent due to the higher number of people. However, to say that the 10% that SLT has is enough justification to not buff HTT is silly.
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100 Worgen Druid
12295
Looks like they dropped Monks and SPs from the buffs, and their intention is to increase the strength (and therefore representation) of Holy Priests and Resto Druids in 25s. After seeing this slight change, I think it is going to go through.

While on one hand the low representation does exist, this is still going to throw CD balance all out of whack, and I do not see how it is won't trivialize some mechanics. I also do not see how it won't just overheal most others. I honestly would want to find a way to slow down the channel with this change... gah

I just hope they revert non-resto Druids receiving the change, it will somewhat better overall. Otherwise, I do not see how non-resto Druids do not end up replacing MS healers in CD rotations (in 25s where 3-4 are common).
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/25/2013 8:24 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
04/25/2013 05:31 AMPosted by Tonydanza


Yea.... SLT isn't noted for it's mere 10% reduction, that's just a small laughable bonus.


Please stop.


Raid wide 10% DR is nothing to laugh at. Which happens to be 10% more raidwide that the other classes that I noted can bring. I'd ask for more than "Please stop" But then again, your name is sensations, and that'd be pretty much pointless. We all know you have nothing substantial to offer.


The problem is - it is effectively half or less effective than any other damage reduction raid cooldown. It is only 10%, while every other similar CD is 20% - including cooldowns brought by multiple DPS specs. The health redistribution is a gimmick that is noticable on raid frames but seldom has much value during the typical uses of SLT (i.e stacked raid wide AoE damage) - game breaking gimmicks like Spine excluded. On top of being half as powerful, why does it have both the duration limitation of Devo Aura and the range limitation of Barrier, on top of forcing you to either physically position your character to place it or use a talent point to effectively give you a targeting reticule like PW:B has baseline?

On top of that, SLT usage in ToT is dicey at best; not all fights have stack phases or opportunities to use it on more than melee. These limitations plus the fact that HTT is basically the same as a Tranq have led us to the place that talent or not, HTT is our primary raid CD. We are already punished for having our raid CD use up a talent in our talent tree, but are now being penalized again by our raid CD not being buffed because it's a talent?

This will leave us going into 5.3 with
-A half baked damage mitigation CD that is the weakest in the game and often not usable
-A 40% raid healing cooldown
-Cooldown based burst was our top strength somewhat mitigating mediocre overall throughput. We are now going to have weaker 3 minute raid saving burst than every other healer except maybe Disc Priests.
-Still no tank cooldown while tank cooldowns for some other healers have been buffed in 2 straight patches
-Bad total throughput that is likely to fall significant relative to how it is on live with the Druid, Priest and Monk buffs
-Still saddled with extreme toolkit limitations around spread AoE healing and mobility

Effectively, we have gone from being brought for our cooldowns to having sub par cooldowns. The only reason to bring a RShaman will be Mana Tide. If healers don't really need it (which is already the case right now with legendary gems), there is no reason to bring one over a healer with competitive throughput, real raid cooldowns, and a full toolkit to deal with ToT fight mechanics.
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90 Troll Shaman
12525
Remove that damn healing tide.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8130
First off, SLT is a major raid stabilizing tool, of equal or stronger power than barrier because t makes all AoE heals stronger (less overheal.) the only thing it is worse at is surviving a single big hit.
Second, revival buff is still in the patch notes, stop saying its removed and they're trying to buff certain classes. They're trying to make healers in 25m without real raid CDs...have raid CDs. At the moment, DR effects scale in 25s but throughput doesn't as has been mentioned. Either throughput should be buffed or DR be nerfed to be fair. They chose to buff throughput, I fail to see that big of a problem.
Third, our rsham has highly competitive healing on fights where healing rain can be used effectively, as well as the utility of being very strong when the healing is needed + tons of raid CDs and MTT.
I'm of mixed opinion on whether they should be compensated for this buff but I can see why they haven't been yet.
I'm not of the opinion that rsham are weak, and I love having one in our raid. Being top on meters doesn't matter when you have smart heals and utility galore.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
04/26/2013 09:15 AMPosted by Astråios
They chose to buff throughput, I fail to see that big of a problem.


You don't see how 5 mil healing Tranqs/DH and 2 mil healing VEs could pose a problem by trivializing the healing checks of many mechanics?

Once we start getting much higher gear levels, especially with item upgrades, the MTT doesn't become that useful anymore. That being the case, why would any raid even need to bring a Shaman? The SLT and HTT become completely underwhelming when other healers bring throughput CDs that heal for 2.5 times as much and when DPS bring CDs that have the potential to heal for as much as a HTT.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16765
My issue with SLT is that it's an impractical cooldown. Similarly, if another cooldown gave you permanent immunity to damage if cast on a raider with less than 50 HP, it would be impractical. If you succeeded in using it, you would reap fantastic dividends, but it would be extremely difficult to use. The fact that SLT performs magnificently once every 20 boss fights is just a distraction towards the 19 times it fails to deliver any satisfying returns.

In summary, SLT is a gimmick, not a cooldown. I don't really care anymore though, because we have alternatives like Ascendance and HTT, but prior to MoP the introduction of SLT as our cooldown analog was a joke.
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