Atonement Nerf

90 Blood Elf Priest
LD
15385
This is more of a rant than anything. I just don't understand where Blizzard is coming from nerfing the abilities a particular class might have just because they feel atonement goes against normal game mechanics. They nerfed spirit shell because too many people were spamming the spell. Now people are spamming atonement, let us nerf that. Honestly, a number of fights were attuned to be atonement. Why is that our faults as disc priests?

For example, Horridon has increased damage taken. A smart disc priest will use not only atonement because smite, holy fire, and penance heal for more in this fight but bubbles and prayer of healing also come in handy if debuffs go out, etc. Council fights, atonement is amazing because the spec lends extra dps needed where other healers fill in. Just because Blizzard overtuned fights for a specific class's abilities does not mean that they should feel the need to nerf the spec to the ground.

Personally, I am not looking forward to playing disc as much anymore just because everything they make fun about the class they keep nerfing. Atonement may be overpowered on one or two fights even, but other classes reign supreme in terms of pure hps and utilization. Let us keep what makes disc special and not try to take away how the class works just because people may "rely" on "overpowered" spells.
Edited by Elliechan on 4/23/2013 10:17 AM PDT
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90 Troll Priest
8910
Disc is extremely strong

We will STILL be top healer after this nerf.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
LD
15385
Disc is extremely strong

We will STILL be top healer after this nerf.


Are you talking about PVP? Or PVE?
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100 Human Priest
18815
Ellie if you're using atonement a lot you should really know why they have to nerf it, if you're honest with yourself.

Let's put some simple numbers up.

Note I'm not a top end priest in a progression guild. I'm a competent healer in a guild that likes to do two relaxed raids a week, where we all laugh and take the mick and hopefully kill a couple of new bosses each cycle.

On monday we had our first look at Iron Qon (normal). On the kill our 3 healers did (from memory):

me: 75k ish HPS
our pally: 74k ish HPS
our druid: 72? k ish HPS

all very close. Our overheals were 30%, 22% and 24% (or around those numbers).

On top of my HPS I did 35k DPS.

These were our first attempts at this boss and I was making numerous errors. My numbers will get better with subsequent attempts.

Now I realise 35k dps doesn't sound like much. However, on our normal kills I will usually do somewhere in the range 50-60k dps (for the fights without damage modifiers), while maintaining at least equivalent healing numbers to our pally and druid.

50-60k dps is not a whole other dps, but looking at it another way, my presence on the healing team effectively buffs our dps by 6-12k dps per dps toon.

Friends who have pugged with us lately remark how "advantageous" it is to have a dis priest on your 10 man team at the moment.

"Advantageous" will eventually translate into "mandatory" for any progression minded guild.

Mandatory inclusion of any class/spec into a 10man isn't a good thing. (Heroic LK no way!)

I'm not a world class dis priest. (In fact I was always main spec holy). I should not be able to do the amount of damage I currently do while healing. With more gear the numbers this toon will put out will be patently silly if the current atonement values are not nerfed.

My 2 cents.
Edited by Aerry on 4/23/2013 6:28 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Priest
12250
I don't see a problem with the nerf, especially since our smart heals will soon favor low health players over pets.

That in an of itself actually feels like a buff to me.

10% nerf with new priority > current atonement putting crit aegis shields on lock pets.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5990
Just want to point out it's not just a 10% nerf - that's just the base nerf on atonement.

On top of that, the 20% glyph on smite is gone from atonement - so that's a 30% nerf (20% + 10 % base nerf to atonement).

Then penance DPS is being nerfed 10%, which combined with the 10% base atonement nerf is 20%.

Only holy fire is unchanged, so it'll be nerfed 10%. But obviously that's the smallest part of atonement.

All in all, I'd guess this is a 22-24% nerf to atonement because of how hard smite and penance are getting hit.

Balanced against that penance single target HPS is up 10%, although it's not clear if this is a buff or a cancellation of the 10% DPS nerf, so that could be nothing. And like you said, the prioritization should be more consistent for all smart heals.

So yeah, it's actually a bigger nerf than the 20% they threw out there at first, and there's even QoL loss losing 10% DPS on our main offensive spell now.
Edited by Dliver on 4/23/2013 11:42 PM PDT
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90 Troll Priest
4905
Disc was way too strong for having half the effort put into it. Good, it got nerfed. Now learn to use the rest of your kit. It's just as powerful as atonement was. It's not a direct nerf to your output if you adjust your playstyle. No more mashing your 1 button any more
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90 Pandaren Priest
9020
I actually just leveled to 90 about two days ago after gearing up my druid.

I like atonement for low damage moments. I noticed on my druid that atonement would almost "Steal" my HoT heals and it was nealy impossible to get a casted heal off on someone if there was a priest spamming smite.

Overall, I like the playstyle. I like using atonement during low damage situations, and then keeping Inner Will, PI, shadowfiend and whatnot on cooldown.

I havent really found the greatest use for spirit shell? It seems like its good for getting an insane amount of healing done on tank after pull, and even as a "no overhealing button" during heavy damage moments. But IDK, it never feels like im healing people up. Id much rather have divine hymn.

ANYWAYS:
As far as the atonement nerf. I dont mind what they do. I feel like I use all of the toolkit efficiently other than spirit shell. Which I guess I could get used to.

My only gripe about it is primarily target switching. I like how it is currently because i can smite, solace, and penance the boss, switch to tank to keep rapture on the 12 second cooldown, and switch back to boss.

Only switching to use Inner will+prayer and throwing mending on peeps.

*I just dont want to feel like im frantically switching between the boss and friendly players. If they nerf it in such a way that it becomes useless, well:

I just dont see the point in having it period. Id feel like another healer with an AOE healing button and single target healing button. I like disc and MW because they can be offensive healers. its DIFFERENT. But it doesnt seem like blizzard likes the idea.
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100 Night Elf Priest
9355
The nerf is welcomed. It's annoying when you see disc priest only spam attonement and it makes up 70% of their healing. Now people will actually have to use more than 3 or 4 buttons when they want to heal...who knows, maybe they'll use 5 buttons now.

I know this is kind of a rant, but I've been wanting to say it all MoP. I wonder how many of the flavor of the month disc priests would crash and burn if they had to switch to holy for a week of raids of something? I think they're just dps in disguise to be honest. I've been maining a disc for two odd years or something now and whenever I have to go into LFR I switch to holy just so I can whoop some disc priest butt for boom booms and giggles lol. I do love being a disc though.

Anyway, sorry for the attitude. No one ever really likes when they get nerfed I know. xD
Edited by Foxwoods on 4/24/2013 6:14 AM PDT
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90 Human Priest
11685
I didn't see a reason to report the OP for their post, they gave feedback and were respectful. But there ya go, that's out of the way.

Ellie, Atonement needs a nerf. Honestly, I wish Ghostcrawler would dig up the bat he used on retribution paladins in 3.1 and hit discipline with it. Twice. I'm going to link a WoL meter here for you to look at, and you tell me something isn't inherently wrong with this picture.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i29e7wddskqciqyj/analyze/hd/source/?s=6143&e=6563

Look at that priest. That's me. That's me doing 22 million healing with two abilities. Two. I literally just topped a meter doing nothing but spamming three spells and popping a one minute cooldown. I don't even have my 4-pc yet, which honestly wouldn't matter because my Penance casts are a total of 13.

This is the top ranked holy priest, period, on the same encounter.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q2h13kr488mcrahq/details/22/?s=11363&e=11730

Notice how most of the healing is close to each other. There isn't just a wide gap between one spell or the other. They're actually using a larger variety of their kit to do more total healing.

The total healing differential between my meter and this holy priest's meter is 36k HPS. If I subtracted Spirit Shell, Divine Aegis, and Atonement from my totals, the differential between our two meters would suggest that I was AFK the entire fight. If I went Divine Star I'm guessing I could probably pull much closer to this particular holy priest.

Remember how discipline was "mandatory" in the last tier of content because of how encounters were designed to make the constant Aegis spam of PoH so incredible that going without it was basically setting your raid back? Well, now encounter design is set up so that not having a discipline priest in your raid is still setting your raid back, and most of it is due to the fact that Spirit Shell lines up almost perfectly with most of the major abilities bosses have and that bosses do so little raidwide damage for extended durations that you can just sit there DPSing while keeping the tank alive, since he's the only person really taking and damage.

By the way, that's about how all of my meters looked this week. Spirit Shell, Atonement, and Aegis procs would combine easily for 60-65% of my total healing done. My guild won't even let me play holy because discipline is flat-out just pound for pound still better.

Needless to say, Ellie, I disagree with your assessment. It's not being hit hard enough. They should have gone with the initial 50% reduction they had first said, but kept the glyph functioning. It would have been a harder nerf, but at least left discipline a useful glyph option. I'm more worried now, as I'm stuck being discipline probably for the entire expansion, that in 5.2 I'll only be running two major glyphs because, really, what's left for options beyond Renew and Weakend Soul? Penance?
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90 Troll Priest
8910
Are you talking about PVP? Or PVE?


What does atonement have to do with pvp?
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90 Draenei Priest
12250
Yeah, didn't mention the smite glyph nerf, but even then it's not a huge nerf since the 20% of blood worm and pet healing will be gone and we will become effective. It only hurts our epeens.

I'm actually glad the boost to smite is going so I'm not forced into using it outside of fights where I can just derp and stand there like an arcane mage. Atonement really should be used as a filler heal, and it is just too powerful. The nerf is welcomed.

People complained about the nerf to spirit shell, but it wasn't that bad. People are complaining about the nerf to atonement, but it's not going to be that bad. We'll still be amazing, and because of the changes to how the smart heals will hit, it will make us more effective.

HPS does not mean you are an effective healer. Your numbers look pretty, but you're likely to lose a player in the process.

The changes in 5.3 benefit us more than harm us. Also, can you imagine how OP the current smite glyph would be with the new player priority system? We would be overpowered spam bots and never use our tool kits. How boring!
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86 Human Paladin
6155
Ellie, Atonement needs a nerf. Honestly, I wish Ghostcrawler would dig up the bat he used on retribution paladins in 3.1 and hit discipline with it. Twice. I'm going to link a WoL meter here for you to look at, and you tell me something isn't inherently wrong with this picture.http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i29e7wddskqciqyj/analyze/hd/source/?s=6143&e=6563Look at that priest. That's me. That's me doing 22 million healing with two abilities. Two. I literally just topped a meter doing nothing but spamming three spells and popping a one minute cooldown. I don't even have my 4-pc yet, which honestly wouldn't matter because my Penance casts are a total of 13. This is the top ranked holy priest, period, on the same encounter.http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q2h13kr488mcrahq/details/22/?s=11363&e=11730Notice how most of the healing is close to each other. There isn't just a wide gap between one spell or the other. They're actually using a larger variety of their kit to do more total healing.


She's actually not using a larger variety of her toolkit to do more total healing. I didn't count DA, EoL, or Rapid Renewal because those just happen on their own. I counted atonement only once. She cast 9 of her actual spells while you cast 10.

Also she did 167k effective hps which is a hell of a lot more than 90k. If you look at the top disc priest right now on WoL and the top holy priest you'll see that their numbers are very close at least on that particular fight.

I really don't see the need for yet another nerf to disc priests. MoP came out with disc priests being very poorly tuned and aside from the hotfixes they overdid at the beginning of MSV progression every patch since then has contained some sort of nerf to disc priests. That being said I love my priest and will continue to play her regardless.
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90 Human Priest
13720
It's only a nerf if all you do is atonement healing for the entirety of every encounter. Actually it's not really THAT bad even if you do that.
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90 Pandaren Priest
0
Just want to point out it's not just a 10% nerf - that's just the base nerf on atonement.

On top of that, the 20% glyph on smite is gone from atonement - so that's a 30% nerf (20% + 10 % base nerf to atonement).

Then penance DPS is being nerfed 10%, which combined with the 10% base atonement nerf is 20%.

Only holy fire is unchanged, so it'll be nerfed 10%. But obviously that's the smallest part of atonement.

All in all, I'd guess this is a 22-24% nerf to atonement because of how hard smite and penance are getting hit.

Balanced against that penance single target HPS is up 10%, although it's not clear if this is a buff or a cancellation of the 10% DPS nerf, so that could be nothing. And like you said, the prioritization should be more consistent for all smart heals.

So yeah, it's actually a bigger nerf than the 20% they threw out there at first, and there's even QoL loss losing 10% DPS on our main offensive spell now.


Uh..... No?

Unless I'm missing something Smite healing should end up getting reduced by 25% in 5.3, not 30%. Just to throw out arbitrary numbers to illustrate my point. If your Smite deals 30k damage right now it will also heal for 30k damage. If you also include the Glyph of Smite it ends up dealing 36k damage and healing (20% more). In 5.3 that same 30k damage Smite will instead heal for 27k. With the Glyph of Smite it will deal 36k damage but still only heal for 27k. So it will end up outputting 75% of the healing it does right now. In other words, it will do 25% less healing compared to now.

The same concept applies to offensive Penance. If each tick hits for 50k now you will end up with 10% weaker ticks in 5.3. So instead of hitting for 50k on each tick you will hit for 45k on each tick. And since your base ticks are now hitting for 45k a piece, and only converting 90% of that damage to healing, they end up doing 40.5k healing in 5.3. Again, this is not a 20% reduction in Penance healing. It's a 19% reduction in Penance healing.

So yes, it's a bigger nerf for Smite healing output, but a smaller nerf for both offensive Penance and Holy Fire healing output. In addition, offensive Penance loses 10% of it's damage output whereas defensive Penance gains 10% to it's healing output.

Even if it were a 30% nerf to Smite healing output it wouldn't be all that relevant. I hope you're not casting Smite for healing output outside of damage modifier encounters. The spell is a filler, and for the most part it's "benefits" come in the form of an Evangelism stack, 0.5 seconds off of the Penance CD, it's smart healing capabilities and to some extent it's damage.

The Penance reduction is going to be a bit more significant. But it's not like Penance doing 19% less healing when used offensively is going to make it a horrible spell. The same could be said for Holy Fire.

I'd say more but it feels like the devs have gone schizophrenic with their changes lately and it seems pointless.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5990
Just want to point out it's not just a 10% nerf - that's just the base nerf on atonement.

On top of that, the 20% glyph on smite is gone from atonement - so that's a 30% nerf (20% + 10 % base nerf to atonement).

Then penance DPS is being nerfed 10%, which combined with the 10% base atonement nerf is 20%.

Only holy fire is unchanged, so it'll be nerfed 10%. But obviously that's the smallest part of atonement.

All in all, I'd guess this is a 22-24% nerf to atonement because of how hard smite and penance are getting hit.

Balanced against that penance single target HPS is up 10%, although it's not clear if this is a buff or a cancellation of the 10% DPS nerf, so that could be nothing. And like you said, the prioritization should be more consistent for all smart heals.

So yeah, it's actually a bigger nerf than the 20% they threw out there at first, and there's even QoL loss losing 10% DPS on our main offensive spell now.


Uh..... No?

Unless I'm missing something Smite healing should end up getting reduced by 25% in 5.3, not 30%. Just to throw out arbitrary numbers to illustrate my point. If your Smite deals 30k damage right now it will also heal for 30k damage. If you also include the Glyph of Smite it ends up dealing 36k damage and healing (20% more). In 5.3 that same 30k damage Smite will instead heal for 27k. With the Glyph of Smite it will deal 36k damage but still only heal for 27k. So it will end up outputting 75% of the healing it does right now. In other words, it will do 25% less healing compared to now.

The same concept applies to offensive Penance. If each tick hits for 50k now you will end up with 10% weaker ticks in 5.3. So instead of hitting for 50k on each tick you will hit for 45k on each tick. And since your base ticks are now hitting for 45k a piece, and only converting 90% of that damage to healing, they end up doing 40.5k healing in 5.3. Again, this is not a 20% reduction in Penance healing. It's a 19% reduction in Penance healing.

So yes, it's a bigger nerf for Smite healing output, but a smaller nerf for both offensive Penance and Holy Fire healing output. In addition, offensive Penance loses 10% of it's damage output whereas defensive Penance gains 10% to it's healing output.

Even if it were a 30% nerf to Smite healing output it wouldn't be all that relevant. I hope you're not casting Smite for healing output outside of damage modifier encounters. The spell is a filler, and for the most part it's "benefits" come in the form of an Evangelism stack, 0.5 seconds off of the Penance CD, it's smart healing capabilities and to some extent it's damage.

The Penance reduction is going to be a bit more significant. But it's not like Penance doing 19% less healing when used offensively is going to make it a horrible spell. The same could be said for Holy Fire.

I'd say more but it feels like the devs have gone schizophrenic with their changes lately and it seems pointless.

You are correct, sir.

I didn't really flesh out my math, I was just responding to the post about it only being a 10% nerf. My immediate reaction was just to point out that the glyph of smite and penance DPS reductions made it much, much more than that.

So yes, I agree, it's a 25% (not 30% as I said) top-line nerf to smite atonement healing and 19% (not 20%) nerf to penance. I didn't actually stop to run the numbers because I was just responding to the knee-jerk reaction of "but it's only 10% now."

When GC said he might bring it back to 90%, I didn't know he meant to also throw out new nerfs to the smite glyph and penance DPS that achieve exactly the same effect but in a way that's probably a good deal worse for most disc priests.
Edited by Dliver on 4/26/2013 12:26 AM PDT
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