How Do You Guys Do It?

90 Tauren Warrior
9435
Had a DK in a heroic the other day DG the next set of adds. He ended up having to corpse run because I wouldn't stop chain pulling.

Just remember it's ok for you to refuse to be bullied. Do your thing, go at your pace, and !@#$ them if they have a problem with it, they can roll a tank.
Edited by Rvalue on 4/26/2013 1:58 PM PDT
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80 Orc Warrior
2380
Hi Prue,

Here's basically what you have to do:

Chain pull

And don't stop chain pulling until you get to a boss.

Shield slam one target, six seconds after that Shield Slam another target, six seconds later Shield Slam another target, after another six seconds Shield Slam a new target, etc. Just make sure you Shield Slam everything once. DO NOT feel that you actually have to kill off anything that you pull, that's not your job. It's the DPSer's job to kill off what you pull.

To pull a mob, target the main monster (a big brute or a spellcaster), Thunderclap first then Shield Slam the main monster. Pause for 4 seconds, to let your Thunderclap and Shield Slam finish their cooldown, then you run to the next mob and pull it. If you pull a mob, DO NOT Shield Slam every target in that mob, just the main target.

NEVER STOP PULLING until you get to a boss.

To pull an entire mob off a DPSer, you go up to the DPSer and Thunderclap. Then step away from the DPSer. Target the monster you couldn't pull off him, then Taunt and Shield Slam. Pause for 4 seconds, now go and pull the next mob.

Do not get into a Taunt war with a hunter or warlock pet, you cannot win. If a hunter or warlock pet taunts off you, then you pull even more. You want to pull so much that if the healer doesn't focus on you and you die, then the whole party will die because you pulled so much.

It is important that you stay ahead of everyone. If you queue as tank, you DO NOT have the luxury of looting corpses.

Best Regards,
Beloved

EDIT: I just looked up what abilities you have. You have Revenge, which is also good. However, its cooldown is 9 seconds so its not as readily available. But if it is available, you can use it to pull a mob. Just target the main monster of the mob, Thunderclap, then Revenge, pause for 4 seconds, then pull the next mob.

I don't use Devastate anymore, but I do remember using it a lot at your level. If I remember correctly Devastate has no cooldown, so you can always use it whenever you want. Use it while you are waiting for Thunderclap and Shield Slam to cooldown.
Edited by Beloved on 4/27/2013 4:47 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
19110
Honestly, put on some good music, and just do your tanking thing.

I also like to level with a friend, doesn't matter who- just someone you can go 'DID YOU SEE THAT STUPID HUNTER PULLING EVERY GROUP?!?!' and will understand.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10455
I'd recommend not giving the DPS time to pull for you. Until you hit heroics you can pretty much always pull the next pack as soon as your current pack is at 50% health. Just watch healer mana and stop if they are getting low / behind. If they pull when the healer is oom let them die as long as the healer doesn't take aggro (never let the healer die).

Most dps can't make your life bad if they don't have time to type in party chat.
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50 Draenei Warrior
450
Thanks Beloved, I'd forgotten about Revenge.

As for you OP, I think everyone's covered those bases for you. I just got out of a SM run where the healer said 'pull big', so I pulled as much as I thought I could handle, and he'd moonfire more mobs across. Absolute unmitigated chaos from beginning to end, but it was a terrific run. I think there were some DPS with us, but it was really about the heals and me, as it should be.

:)
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100 Draenei Warrior
16295
Here's a radical suggestion but it might work. Level yourself to 88 or so some other way, quests, PVP, dailies, whatever. Get yourself equipped with crafted gear, your target iLvl should be 420-450. Start running the MoP normals.

You will probably get kicked a few times, but this approach has the following advantages:

1) You can practice and learn the same dungeons until you can do them blindfolded.
2) You will be in a proper tanking role, dps need you to control mobs, unlike most of the lower level dungeons.
3) People know basically what to do, there won't be any surprises (except hunter pets and Warlock minions, but that's another story).
4) If you tell people you are new to tanking, hopefully they'll help out.
5) People are getting close to max level and won't be in such a rush to go go go.
6) Queues should be short.

Avoid the heroics until you are really ready, you won't be able to hold threat if some iLvl 520 frost mage drops in to show off his 125K dps.

I started playing mid-Cataclysm and didn't tank anything until I got to 85. I was a steep learning curve, but at least I learned in a proper setting.

Just my $0.02.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
11300
I turn on (loud) music, chill, and perform my role correctly while ignoring all the chats.
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100 Human Paladin
9980
Tanking for PuGs can provide some excellent training: If you can pull it off with a bad group, you'll shine with a good one.

But that's no reason to accept abuse from anyone. When you meet friendly players, ask if you can add them to your friends list. A decent tank played by a nice player is never short on friends. Keep in touch with the folks you like and group with them when you can.

While the LFD has done a lot to damage the social standards and reinforcements of the community, the social tools we now have can help you out. Pretty soon you won't have to PuG at all.

Pairing up with a good healer can be a big part of this too: )

Good luck!

Arti
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90 Orc Death Knight
8565
I agree with Artigen. However, I have simply reached the limits of my patience with LFD and LFR. Especially LFR. In my battlegroup, i get paired almost exclusively with horrendously bad dps that don't want to use mechanics, and some healers I out heal. I've stopped using these features unless I'm in a guild group now.
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100 Troll Death Knight
8625
How do you guys deal with the people in PuGs. Granted, I shouldn't use randoms as the only source, for Tanks are useful for other things, but my God, how do you it? I'm trying to practice on Tanking, for I have never had one. I usually create a low level Tank and stop because of the people in randoms. I told myself, I'm going to get this one up, and I'm going to Tank. I have repeatedly put people who irritate me on my ignore list without warning. I've slowly learned not to fight back but to show the group that I'm "laughing it off" and continue to progress through the dungeon because it's what I came here to do. It's quite stressful for me because I feel like I'm not learning anything but taunting off of people pulling for me. I mean, lately, I've just let them have the mobs they've aggroed, and I can solo one pack of trash by myself. Bosses are a struggle for me. I need at least a healer with me, so I can kill it. IDK how you guys handle it. Maybe you quested up, and that's probably my mistake. I'm leveling through randoms, and I meet all kinds of different people. I'm not saying all of them are bad, just most of them are bad.


Most of the time I just queue up some music on my computer and tune everything else out that I can afford to tune out in a run and do my job. If a dps is constantly pulling but kills stuff more power to him, that's less I have to worry about and as long as the healer isn't getting hit and has mana and stuff dies you're good. Pretty much you just need a thick skin if you're going to tank.

The biggest tips I can give is never pull more than what you feel you and the group can safely handle. Don't let people try to make you move faster than what you can handle either but on the other hand don't pull so little or so slow you could cook something in a crockpot between pulls. If a dps or healer or someone gets impatient and starts pulling a rule of thumb that alot of who have been doing it for awhile (not to sound airheaded on my part) keep is to let the person constantly pulling die. Either the healer will get tired of having to scrape them up, they'll get tired of it themselves and their repair bill will be an incentive to not pull. There will be those times when the unexpected happens such as someone getting feared into a group or something along those lines but I'm sure you get what i'm saying.

I personally spent a year pvping and learning my class overall and it also helped me as well. Also when I first started learning to tank I had a friend come with me who had a tank set just incase I couldn't handle a boss or fight and it gave me a little piece of mind. Now I do the same thing for some of the newer tanks I've had the ability to teach. Also don't be afriad to push yourself either. If you don't push your limits from time to time you'll never get better. Hope this helps. Keep at it good sir you'll love it once you get the hang of it.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8485
Wait until the mobs can kill silly dps that pull for you. Then things tend to settle down.
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90 Human Warrior
9635
Hi Prue,

Here's basically what you have to do:

Chain pull

And don't stop chain pulling until you get to a boss.

Shield slam one target, six seconds after that Shield Slam another target, six seconds later Shield Slam another target, after another six seconds Shield Slam a new target, etc. Just make sure you Shield Slam everything once. DO NOT feel that you actually have to kill off anything that you pull, that's not your job. It's the DPSer's job to kill off what you pull.

To pull a mob, target the main monster (a big brute or a spellcaster), Thunderclap first then Shield Slam the main monster. Pause for 4 seconds, to let your Thunderclap and Shield Slam finish their cooldown, then you run to the next mob and pull it. If you pull a mob, DO NOT Shield Slam every target in that mob, just the main target.

NEVER STOP PULLING until you get to a boss.

To pull an entire mob off a DPSer, you go up to the DPSer and Thunderclap. Then step away from the DPSer. Target the monster you couldn't pull off him, then Taunt and Shield Slam. Pause for 4 seconds, now go and pull the next mob.

Do not get into a Taunt war with a hunter or warlock pet, you cannot win. If a hunter or warlock pet taunts off you, then you pull even more. You want to pull so much that if the healer doesn't focus on you and you die, then the whole party will die because you pulled so much.

It is important that you stay ahead of everyone. If you queue as tank, you DO NOT have the luxury of looting corpses.

Best Regards,
Beloved

EDIT: I just looked up what abilities you have. You have Revenge, which is also good. However, its cooldown is 9 seconds so its not as readily available. But if it is available, you can use it to pull a mob. Just target the main monster of the mob, Thunderclap, then Revenge, pause for 4 seconds, then pull the next mob.

I don't use Devastate anymore, but I do remember using it a lot at your level. If I remember correctly Devastate has no cooldown, so you can always use it whenever you want. Use it while you are waiting for Thunderclap and Shield Slam to cooldown.

I actually found this post to be the most helpful.

While suggestions made by others are good, too; I think Beloved has some wise words, here, and I appreciate the feedback.
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90 Human Paladin
9885
I started tanking in BC, I never understood the difficulty in tanking. I think my best suggestion for you is to adopt the mentality I have as a tank. If you lose threat it is your fault. You should always try to think this way, even if it is not true it helps you keep yourself aware of everything going on in any instance (normal, heroic, raid, etc). It's a perfectionist attitude and it helps me a lot. DPS starts hammering a single target on an AOE pull? You should be hitting that mob with all your abilities, IE on a paladin I would be hitting that mob with my shield throw, my judgements, my hammer of the righteous, my shield slam. NEVER allow a dps to die just because they pull threat. That is a horrible attitude, you are the tank it is your job to hold threat. Their job is to deal damage... they are doing their job now you need to do yours. I realize this can be subject to different situations such as if a DPS is chain pulling mobs and you just can't keep up. I have never had a problem holding threat over a dps even when they vastly outgear me I am usually able to watch their threat generation and time taunts + big threat hit to get threat back instantly.
Pretty much the only times I find it acceptable to lose threat is when you have a small pull where every dps is slamming different targets or if your group is just chain pulling a ton of mobs and people are single targeting. Those are situations where your group is unintentionally making things very difficult on you BUT YOU SHOULD STILL BE TRYING TO KEEP THREAT. As I said earlier your job is to hold threat you need to keep trying to do that job as best as you can no matter what happens. The tanks I hate the most are the ones that say "Well don't pull threat and I won't let you die." or something of the like. That is a horrific attitude. It's basically saying "Well if I don't do my job right I will let you die."

At the end of the day do I do everything perfect? No. But at least I tried and I didn't make up excuses or blame others for me not doing what I was suppose to do. That aside, I think the best possible way to learn how to tank is in leveling because lower level tanks do ridiculous damage making holding threat much easier. The things to work on while leveling:

1.) Learn your survival cycle. What defensive cooldowns do you have that midigate damage? Start honing your judgement, "Big hits upcoming do I need my 50% damage reduction or just the 20%?" This also means reading your healer which is a skill all in itself.

2.) What is my rotation? DPS are not the only ones that have rotations. Tanks have them, and ESPECIALLY in this expansion, very much need to use them! On my paladin, who I just leveled to 90 two or three days ago, the whole goal is to keep up holy power generation so I can use shield of the righteous as much as possible. This ability gives me a 51% physical damage midigation for 3 seconds so it is very important to keep up especially on bosses like Heroic Gara'jal in MSV. Use your leveling experience to slowly figure out a rotation, hone it as you level.

3.) Threat. If you are doing your rotation right you should have zero problems holding threat on bosses, on AOE pulls it might take a little practice but you should be able to pick it up fairly quickly. I'm not 100% on what abilities you start off with as a tank at level 15 when you can first queue into dungeons but I'm fairly sure all of them have some sort of AOE ability and as I've said you should be doing much more damage than most people at low level so build up your AOE abilities as you level and use single target abilities to pick up mobs that peel off and go for the dps or healer.

4.) Look up guides. Read them all the way through and if you don't understand a section post about it and try to get explainations. I don't suggest worrying about guides until you are level capped. Until you are 90 simply do as I said in 1-3.. try to figure it out and work out a rotation. When you are closer to level cap then go to elitestjerks.com and look through the prot section and make adjustments.

EDIT: This post continues.
Edited by Jaboogie on 4/30/2013 8:33 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
9885
5.) Key binds. I do not know whether or not you use them but you absolutely need to start if you don't. A lot of clickers I've talked to always tell me that they are much quicker clicking then they can be with key binds. I use to say this all the time as well back in vanilla and it is an argument from ignorance. I don't know whether or not you click but for the post's sake let's assume you do. When you first key bind everything.... yes... you will be slower... it will be more difficult for you to play your toon.... for a little while..... Then once you get use to it it will be 10x faster. You can't keep proper situational awareness if you need to keep moving your eye down to your abilities every half second. The best way to get use to key bindings? LEVELING!! Everything ties together, isn't that nice! Haha. While you are leveling you can slowly add abilities, if you key bind them as soon as you get them you'll get use to using yet another key one by one instead of all at once. Honestly, I should have put this as number 1 because key binds are extremely important to bettering your play... if you don't already use them.

6.) Be creative with your abilities. One thing I have only seen 2 or 3 other paladins do since I started playing this game (I started a month or so after launch) is the bubble taunt. Sure people do it all the time but they never do it right. I have a macro built into my crusader strike that will remove my bubble. So basically I use divine protection to become completely immune to all damage and I taunt at the same time so the boss does not ignore me. I watch the taunt duration timer very closely and JUST before it ends I hit my crusader strike to remove my bubble. I gained 2.5~ seconds of complete immunity to all damage, the healers were able to get me topped back off or I was able to avoid a fatal hit and I never lost threat! I do this in dungeons, heroics, and even raids ALL THE TIME. Another tactic I employ when difficult times hit is to kite mobs. If you have 400% threat, chances are you aren't going to lose it anytime soon, jump off the mob and run away! Stun it or use a movement speed increase and kite! I'll stay 15+ yards away and throw judgements or shields at the mob from out of melee range and be taking zero damage while it chases after me (NOTE: Mob kiting is not always a good idea it is situational I am just trying to give examples).

End-all, your goals as a tank:
1.) Keep threat on all active mobs at all times.
2.) Midigate as much damage as possible.

You'll learn quickly and be more effective if you keep in mind my attitude I suggested at the top of the page, "If you lose threat it is your fault." trying to blame others for pulling threat off you is giving yourself an excuse to not improve which is not helpful to anyone, especially yourself. It is almost akin to a DPS saying, "My dps isn't bad.... I would be doing more damage but the tank isn't pulling enough mobs!! (AKA they are saying they would be higher due to aoe but there is no aoe!)" it's just silly.

I hope this helps!
Edited by Jaboogie on 4/30/2013 10:38 AM PDT
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100 Pandaren Monk
9385
04/30/2013 07:23 AMPosted by Jaboogie
I started tanking in BC, I never understood the difficulty in tanking.


Paladin.
\o/
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90 Pandaren Monk
12900
04/30/2013 07:23 AMPosted by Jaboogie
my hammer of the righteous


You're doing it wrong.
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90 Human Paladin
9885
Geez good thing all the trolls are out today. You do realize that I was using the example of an AOE pull so you wouldn't hit that single mob with a crusader strike... right?
Edited by Jaboogie on 4/30/2013 8:19 AM PDT
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100 Tauren Druid
15570
Wait until the mobs can kill silly dps that pull for you. Then things tend to settle down.


Tanks who are slow as turtles get impatient DPS pulling for them. Tanks who go at a good steady pace do not have this problem because it's always the DPS catching up to them. Not the other way around.
Edited by Dûchene on 4/30/2013 9:13 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
12900
Geez good thing all the trolls are out today. You do realize that I was using the example of an AOE pull so you wouldn't hit that single mob with a crusader strike... right?


You described it as them single targeting one mob.
Nice Dodge gems and reforges.
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90 Human Paladin
9885
Once again, single targeting a mob that peeled off a group from an AOE pull you would still use hammer instead of crusader strike because you would still want to be generating threat on the other mobs. Also keep trolling, I'm a fresh 90 midigation is much more important than getting hit/expertise cap until I get a few more pieces of gear. Why don't you post something helpful instead of strutting your superiority complex.
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