Divine Purpose - Wasted Talent?

90 Human Paladin
8335
So I've done a little bit of testing in terms of what the best talent would be for that tier, and it has come down to Holy Avenger.

HA has amazing burst, healing, and such- at the expense of being on a 2 minute cd.

However, that's not why I'm coming to the forums.

Simply put, I think Divine Purpose should be baseline again, as a passive. 25% proc chance is ridiculously low, and when spec'd into it I've gone entire arenas without proc'ing ONE time.

That's using: Wog, Inquis, and TV non-stop.

In order to be a talent, I would recommend it should be buffed to 40% proc chance, or if it stays 25, it should become baseline to help our sustained damage.

Thoughts?
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90 Human Paladin
7380
Yeah, when you get lucky and it procs a bunch of times in a row, it can really save your butt with wogs, or help you finish something with spam TV's. However, I don't like the idea of trying to depend on procs. I have my pvp burst broken down into two possible.. With guardian + wings + trink on one... and if I see a definite kill potintial I will pop HA... or I will wait one minute for my trink to come off cd and then I pop HA + trink. I like having that option, not to mention the buffs to your healing that you get from both AV and HA. DS can work though. I've done ridiculous amounts of damage with that talent.
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100 Draenei Paladin
17290
It's a fairly good talent for Holy and I enjoy using it as Prot.

But yes, it needs some sort of buff. Has for awhile now. Giving it a spec specific passive would be one way to go, or just flat out increasing it's proc rate as you suggested.

Making it baseline again is not the way to go for most people. It got a lot of hate in Cata, and rightfully so, and even though it's a different animal now many people do not want to go back to that.

Better that it stay a choice, it just needs to be a better choice.
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
Holy Avenger versus Divine Purpose is actually a pretty interesting argument for both Holy and Prot, although I think that Holy tends to go with Divine Purpose when they need mana conservation and Prot only goes with Divine Purpose when we don't actually need the extra cooldown from Holy Avenger. (Painting with huge, massive, mega-broad strokes here.)

I agree that for Ret, Divine Purpose really looks awful. It was bad last tier, and then this tier they changed Avenging Wrath in a way that made both HA and SW look substantially more attractive (that's not a complaint mind you).

I don't think anybody actually *likes* the Divine Purpose design that much though. If they upped the proc rate but made it unable to proc off of itself, tuning it so that the average proc chance worked out to be roughly similar, that would be a substantial buff to the talent for every spec.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7570
DP is a nice "click and forget" talent.

It has its uses, and it's "always on" effect makes sense to have a slight convenience tax.
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100 Human Paladin
11530
I agree with ya OP, I think it should be dropped to baseline (for all specs), it's a fun random mechanic just like Exorcism is. The only time I was really ever mad at Divine Purpose was in patch 4.0 when it was our mastery, god that was horrible.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10640
I would love to have both Divine Purpose and Holy Avenger again. But, sadly, too many people complained about relying on RNG in Cataclysm (when it was justified, at least), so Blizzard is too cautious to make DP baseline again.
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I'm not sure why it warranted hate in cata anymore (though it clearly did for some), so making this ability baseline again would help ret out with dps a little bit. Making a new talent to replace it that is equally compelling as the other two might be a challenge however.

*Ok, the hate came from the rng nature, of course...but making it baseline now would not really redefine the class or anything; I believe it would supplement our new HP generation well.
Edited by Cerethor on 4/25/2013 6:43 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
9970
In principle, I think it's not a bad idea to have a non-cooldown ability in that talent tier (it doesn't HAVE to be Divine Purpose, another passive could take its place; but I don't think there's any particularly good reason DP needs to be baseline either). The problem, for Ret anyway, is that it just isn't very competitive with the other two options. So I'm with Caden; it should simply be buffed so that it is competitive.
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90 Human Paladin
11945
if it always proc'd when using inquisition and had maybe a 50% proc chance during wings, then perhaps it would a little more desirable.

its pretty good for questing right now however and I did run some 2's with it for a while and getting 6-7 TVs in a row can be a game changer:)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
DP's power comes from using LoD/WoG constantly at low HoPo. EF blanketing supports this. RNG at 8/16/25% supports this. HA is technically more powerful if you are using it ever CD. If you miss CD's it's power drops quickly. DP's power only drops when you generate HoPo past 5.

It's the old passive versus active argument, with RNG thrown in for good measure. That said, as time goes on, RNG evens out, and CD misses happen more. DP stablizes and HA gets weaker.

Should DP be baseline? That's a hard question. If so, at what %. Are we talking 25% base or the 8/16/25%?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
3940
Honestly. I've had divine purpose proc for me a lot. it is a real life saver when low on mana and just gives you free heals when you aren't. That being said, now that I have comfortable levels of spirit, I like having the extra burst that holy avenger gives me on a 2 min cd.

It seems fishy depending on a proc rate, but it procs more often than you think and the procs proc procs. The annoying part can be when they proc at wasted times when you're just healing yourself up after combat, etc.

I know I'm blathering.

TL;DR- good uses pre-comfortable levels of spirit. procs a decent amount actually, but once you get that spirit holy avenger is better for holy and ret anyway.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10640
One of the biggest reasons ret DPS sucked for most of Cata is because we had Divine Purpose. Our damage output was balanced around an RNG proc. If DP became baseline again, guess what the devs would do? Balance our DPS around it again.

Yeah, but it was bad then because Ret's Holy Power generation sucked (without 2T13), so those procs had considerably more impact then than they would now.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10640
The problem with baseline DP is it forces us to rely on a mechanic we can't control. That's why it works better as a talent. Players can choose to have RNG contribute to their DPS or not.

Yeah, and that's exactly why it's not going to be baseline.

It should be competitive, though.
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100 Human Paladin
11530
Yeah let's give holy paladins and prot paladins Divine Purpose and Holy Avenger. Yeah that's a great idea. They really need the help. Yeah. Yeah.
Who said anything about helping them? I just find the mechanic of Divine Purpose to be appealing, but not appealing enough to sacrifice it over Holy Avenger/Sanctified Wrath and how useful those talents can be during Heroism/Bloodlust phases.

People who want Divine Purpose back as baseline don't understand how Blizzard balances damage. One of the biggest reasons ret DPS sucked for most of Cata is because we had Divine Purpose. Our damage output was balanced around an RNG proc. If DP became baseline again, guess what the devs would do? Balance our DPS around it again.
You're talking as if Blizzard uses the same standards to balance classes as they did in Cata, which I highly doubt they use today, seeing multiple classes and specs have been revamped to produce less RNG (look at fire mages, Inferno blast is a great example).
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90 Tauren Paladin
14275
I always hated it when i am goofing off by myself and get 4-5 procs in a row but when i actually wanted to do something i get no procs...
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