Buff Affliction More!

90 Human Hunter
9645
Okay, so I was in a 2s capping match the other night. 1500-1600 matchmaking lvl, so nobody was a superstar. My gear is solid, no T2 upgraded but full Tyr/Mal upgraded etc. Tyr wep and offhand.

Anyway, my partner (rdruid) and I kill the dps and the disc priest proceeds to kite us for 15mins to get the draw. We almost killed him once (and probably should have). Did we make mistakes? Sure (no comms etc.) BUT should it really take perfect gameplay for a pure dps class and a healer to take down 1 healer?

Either Disc is OP (maybe) or Affliction needs a serious dps (and control) boost. 10% to dots is not enough. Everyone who pvps knows that that is not going to be enough. You've put in the mechanic now buff it to an appropriate level. Start at about 40% and adjust from there. I'm guessing about 30% should be decent.

Give us Mortal Coil baseline and Put something else in it's place. Doesn't matter what you put there as long as we can get both Coil and 1 other instant CC, it will help.

Finally, FIX self healing for locks. We've been gutted on our self heals on PTR. Seriously, locks will be decimated if this patch goes live as is.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
the problem with afflictions is its spell are weak but it scales real well with stats so in higher ilvls it does well but since pvp gear ilvls do not go high enough, its still weak. Blizzards bandaid fix of course is to give 10% bonus to their DoTs in thier pvp gear on 5.3. Dumb fix but i guess its better than nothing.
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90 Worgen Warlock
18570
Nerf corruption 25%, give 10% to dots back a patch later....we still are only about where we started a patch ago. Also the bunk of "aff scales" doesn't apply here. Look at how shadow, boomkin, or especially unholy are "scaling" in comparison. Unholy will apply and spread dots that tick 7x to 10x as hard instantly without the constraint of soulshards.

The only reason we got 10% to dots on pvp gear is pvp gear is already more than 10% behind pve gear from the same patch/time period. Thus it can't be used in pve which is their priority. What locks need is the inverse of mage dots...they need to tick harder vs players than enemies.
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100 Orc Warlock
15860
I've been saying it a lot lately, and I'll say it again. Corruption needs a 1.33 PvP modifier to compensate for the hotfix nerf.
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90 Undead Warlock
13800
.they need to tick harder vs players than enemies.


Agreed. For some reason Blizz is treating this like an undesirable option when it is probably the most practical until 6.0.
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90 Worgen Warlock
18570
Its rather odd that devs are happy to buff the snot out of mage dots and almost instantly give them separate pve and pvp values yet they can't do the same for affliction whom dots are the entire essence of the spec.

From what I've seen of 5.3 on the ptr 10% isn't nearly enough. Something like 30% to 50% vs players is what is needed. If at the 50% end probably half the CD/power of darksoul to 15%/60 sec cd but that is how big a boost we need. Especially when compared to unholy or other specs that have actual spread pressure.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
7905
Nerf corruption 25%, give 10% to dots back a patch later....we still are only about where we started a patch ago. Also the bunk of "aff scales" doesn't apply here. Look at how shadow, boomkin, or especially unholy are "scaling" in comparison. Unholy will apply and spread dots that tick 7x to 10x as hard instantly without the constraint of soulshards.


Yeah it really blows that a purely dot based spec has less dot power than say an unholy dk outside of cds.
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90 Undead Warlock
13800
Its rather odd that devs are happy to buff the snot out of mage dots and almost instantly give them separate pve and pvp values yet they can't do the same for affliction whom dots are the entire essence of the spec.

From what I've seen of 5.3 on the ptr 10% isn't nearly enough. Something like 30% to 50% vs players is what is needed. If at the 50% end probably half the CD/power of darksoul to 15%/60 sec cd but that is how big a boost we need. Especially when compared to unholy or other specs that have actual spread pressure.


I would say 80-100% DoT increase against players with a nerf to MG against players to compensate. Less dependency on MG in PvP is something that Afflic could really benefit from.

A little off-topic, but if MG were changed from Shadow to Chaos damage I think it would be good since Afflics damage, defense, and CC are all tied into the Shadow tree.
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90 Orc Death Knight
9465
04/29/2013 04:24 PMPosted by Calderath
Nerf corruption 25%, give 10% to dots back a patch later....we still are only about where we started a patch ago. Also the bunk of "aff scales" doesn't apply here. Look at how shadow, boomkin, or especially unholy are "scaling" in comparison. Unholy will apply and spread dots that tick 7x to 10x as hard instantly without the constraint of soulshards.


Yeah it really blows that a purely dot based spec has less dot power than say an unholy dk outside of cds.


I think the problem is more that AFF has shifted from being a pure dot class to being a Dot Manipulating class. It takes channeling Mal Grasp to get the full potential of your dot pressure which presents two problems:

1.) Your spread pressure is quite low since you cannot be channeling Mal Grasp on more than person.

2.) This is PvP, as a melee class....I have absolutely zero intention of letting any caster just sit back and free channel.

In expansions of the past AFF was amazing because their "filler(Mal Grasp)" wasn't required to do the vast majority of their dps. This made it more difficult to spell lock them, and less detrimental when they were locked. They no longer have that advantage.

Slightly off-topic
I also wish people would stop comparing Unholy Dots to Spriests and Aff Locks. We have one incredibly strong DoT and one that is on par with the afore classes in damage per tick. However, please remember that Unholy Diseases are not affected by haste and only 1 disease per dps spec is affected by their mastery. We have one DoT that ticks harder, but your dots tick significantly faster and can even have extra ticks added.

Back on topic, AFF is no longer a pure DoT class. I'm not sure what to do about it for pvp, as Blizz is happy with it working this way for PvE (or so they've stated). I'm not sure they care if AFF is pvp viable, I'm pretty sure they're pretty happy if they can get just one Lock spec to be really competitive. Right now, that spec is looking like Destro. I don't like it either, I enjoy AFF a lot more than Destro. If I wanted to be a burst caster, I would have rolled a mage.
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90 Human Priest
19970
The problem w' destro is you are pretty much not able to get your all cd's chaos bolt off vs a team of similar MMR. You might get a non cd's one off but without CD's that 3 sec cast doesn't even hit as hard as icelance or other instants from mage/hunter/etc.

Unending resolve you say? Oh yeah...that thing on a 3 min cd that 100% assures us to be stunned or cc'd through it? Sorry but its CD is way to long to not be cc'd through its duration since every CC in the game is shorter CD.

If they gave aff MG/DS/DL the hunter filler shot treatment (eg uninteruptable) that would do alot to let aff use its pressure in pvp. Buff dots 30-50% vs players but tie it to a glyph that halves the power and CD of darksoul so it wouldn't become OP. (eg 15% stats, 60 sec cd)

A 10% buff on the eve of a patch that adds ramps in arenas that we might be able to get away from melee for a sec AND makes our gateway trivial to kill means we will be wearing melee as a buttplug every game. Shouldn't an outlast/pressure dot spec have better survival than burst specs? Since every other dot class has superior spread pressure its time to start thinking a bit outside the box for fixes that remedy aff in pvp but don't touch pve.
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04/29/2013 02:46 PMPosted by Werst
Its rather odd that devs are happy to buff the snot out of mage dots and almost instantly give them separate pve and pvp values yet they can't do the same for affliction whom dots are the entire essence of the spec.


This is nothing similar. Warlocks are already OP in PvE. Buffing their DoTs would only make them more OP in PvE. The mage buff made them acceptable for play in PvE, then they were given a PvP nerf to make sure they weren't too good. They are never going to make spells that are MORE powerful against players than mobs, only LESS.


Anyway, my partner (rdruid) and I kill the dps and the disc priest proceeds to kite us for 15mins to get the draw. We almost killed him once (and probably should have). Did we make mistakes? Sure (no comms etc.) BUT should it really take perfect gameplay for a pure dps class and a healer to take down 1 healer?


Can I ask what spec your Druid partner was? Oh wait, I see now he was a healer-- so you're saying that because you couldn't 1v1 a healer you need buffs-- what was your druid doing for those fifteen minutes?
Edited by Alordis on 4/30/2013 9:28 AM PDT
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90 Human Hunter
9645
The druid was rooting, helping to dps, cycloning. He was helping. I don't know if he was playing perfectly, but he wasn't just watching.

So, yes, I think that my lock and a decent healer helping to cc and dps should be able to kill a healer. In fact, i think it is completely, absolutely ridiculous that we couldn't. I'm reasonably sure that we probably could've done something better, but I contend that if there were 2 of us regardless of him being a healer we should've been able to down the priest in a whole hell of a lot less time than 15 mins.

In a game recently on my mage I had a monk live for about 5 mins against my mage and a disc priest. This was upsetting, but at least we got the kill. I do think the priest wasn't pulling his weight, but I was my mage and not my lock, so I had enough damage to kill him.

Mage>Lock in pvp...buff Lock PvP. That is all.
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The druid was rooting, helping to dps, cycloning. He was helping. I don't know if he was playing perfectly, but he wasn't just watching.


Cycloning!? Cycloning!? You mean. . . in a situation where the other player's goal had changed from killing you to staying alive long enough to run a timer out, you were giving him free immune time with Cyclones that let his defensive cooldowns tick off?

You realize in this situation you were effectively giving him a free Ice Block every time you cast cyclone?
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90 Human Hunter
9645
i wasn't the druid, so I can't say why exactly, but I believe he was just trying to stop him from constant pillar humping. Nonetheless, you are grasping at straws here. So, a few cyclones are the difference between killing and not killing a healer when there are 2 players on him? One of which is a (supposedly) pure damage dealer?

Now, let me be clear. I know that we hopefully would've been able to score a kill if we communicated better, but it was just 2s for points and we didn't have any vent or anything, but still I find it hard to believe that you should need excellent coordination to 2v1 a healer. It's stupid.

I can understand a healer being able to live for awhile like against my Mage/priest team. I can understand him living and being able to run away in world PvP, but in an arena environment he should die in less than 15 mins....easily. Imo, something is broken here, and I believe that it is Aff Lock damage, and I'm pretty sure 10% to dots isn't going to be enough.
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So. . .
You had one healer and a DPS against a healer
You weren't communicating well
It was "just twos for points" so you weren't taking it very seriously
You didn't bother get in in a vent or on skype or you know apparently talk at all over the course of 15 minutes to line up cooldowns
You didn't understand why or what the other half of your team was doing

But this is an indication that your class needs buffed not that perhaps you should:
1. Get in vent
2. Have a strategy
3. Communicate with your partner
4. Know why you are casting or not casting spells in certain situations or
5. Take the match more seriously if you care so much about getting a draw instead of a win?

If it was just for points and you didn't care, well you didn't lose any points just your time. If the time was that valuable five minutes in you could easily have left the arena to get to a different comp. . .
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90 Undead Warlock
13800
04/30/2013 09:27 AMPosted by Alordis
Its rather odd that devs are happy to buff the snot out of mage dots and almost instantly give them separate pve and pvp values yet they can't do the same for affliction whom dots are the entire essence of the spec.


This is nothing similar. Warlocks are already OP in PvE. Buffing their DoTs would only make them more OP in PvE. The mage buff made them acceptable for play in PvE, then they were given a PvP nerf to make sure they weren't too good.


that is extremely similar, it is just the opposite problem. Mages Needed a PvE buff and to stay the same in PvP, Locks need a PvP buff but to stay the same in PvE.

They are never going to make spells that are MORE powerful against players than mobs, only LESS.

Why? There is absolutely no reason for them not to, it is the perfect solution.
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90 Human Hunter
9645
But this is an indication that your class needs buffed not that perhaps you should:
1. Get in vent
2. Have a strategy
3. Communicate with your partner
4. Know why you are casting or not casting spells in certain situations or
5. Take the match more seriously if you care so much about getting a draw instead of a win?


So, you think that all of this is necessary for a dps and a healer to kill a healer in 15 mins time?

I've made the point that we didn't play perfectly, but we weren't totally retarded and not trying either. No, we didn't line it all up perfectly, but should that really be necessary for 2 to beat 1 even when 1 of them is a healer?

And when on my mage, in a similar situation...mage/priest vs. MW monk...no vent, etc. We got the kill after about 5 mins. This is about what should happen. In any case, it should not happen that the healer can outlast for a draw is my only point. (on a side note, on my rogue it wouldn't have been even close to a question that we would've gotten a kill) However, my AFF lock just didn't have the pressure, even with help and cds up...there is something wrong with that imo.
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