Creation of death knights.

90 Worgen Death Knight
2840
I've seen various pages that touch upon the subject but I was hoping to get a definitive answer. Durning the events of Pandaria (WAY after lich king dies) do the Archerus Death Knights have a way of creating new knights? I know Sylvanas took that last of the Valkyrs but I have read that certain higher-up knights may still have the power to create weaker versions. Thanks to all who reply.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6255
OP if you follow the DK story, you will see that all DK's start off in the same time frame! Before Cata, before MoP. What you are not told is the time which passes between end of the beginning DK chain and when you go to explore to world. To you it seems it's all but a loading screen, when it's unidentified time frame. Meaning, LK creates your DK, you go through the story until you get to light chapel. After that you go back to where you started to kill off what remains of the LK forces. And then you are ported to present day SW. In there it is implied you DK is in limbo. So you think your DK was made in the time of MoP when in reality it was made pre WotLK.

Also the LK is not dead, he can never be dead, he can not die. If he dies the undead will swarm all of the wow lands uncontrolled. So while during Cata the LK is not the main focus, he is still there, for all eternity.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Death Knight
2840
So it is a no go then? I ask because of an RP I got into. One of the characters may die and I thought it would be cool if it were even possible to bring her back as a DK (mostly so she can stay on alliance rather than become a forsaken on horde). I didn't know if the ability was lost when Arthas was defeated and the Archerus group left the scourge.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6255
04/23/2013 12:47 PMPosted by Lencius
So it is a no go then?


Correct, between here:
The playable death knights are the uniformly undead[5] members of the Death Knights of Acherus, a regiment consisting of hundreds[6] of death knights stationed at the necropolis Acherus: The Ebon Hold under the direct command of the Lich King and Highlord Darion Mograine. These death knights were set loose upon the Scarlet Enclave, culminating in the flight of the newly-formed Scarlet Onslaught to Northrend and the subsequent massacre known as the Scarlet Apocalypse, in which the death knights decimated Scarlet reinforcements. After this, the Death Knights of Acherus were sent to Light's Hope Chapel to destroy the Argent Dawn.

During the Battle for Light's Hope Chapel, the Lich King, in betrayal of his death knights, was willing to sacrifice them to kill Highlord Fordring. Darion threw the Ashbringer to Highlord Fordring, purifying it and, in a large burst of Light, freeing the death knights from the Lich King's grasp and forcing the Lich King to retreat.

The freed death knights took Acherus from the Scourge and formed the Knights of the Ebon Blade under the command of Highlord Mograine.


And here:
he Ebon Blade sent many of its freed death knights to their respective factions – Alliance or Horde. The Knights of the Ebon Blade would later become a major factor in the death of the Lich King, joining the Argent Crusade to form the Ashen Verdict.


It's implied that time passed... If you die TODAY in MoP (2013 example) time, you can't become a DK, unless you were a part of what transpired before the WotLK (1913 example). You can't die today and be summoned as undead 100 years ago.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
8360
What Andray said is pretty spot on, though there are a few creative ways to explain a new DK entering the Horde / Alliance, that do not go against lore (As far as I can tell)

The way I did it for my DK was

>Was not at Light's hope, was freed from her "enslavement" as she puts it when the LK was defeated.
>She wondered around Northrend a while, fighting remaining scourge, while in hiding.
>She got discovered by the Ebon Blade, she told them her story and they allowed her to join.
>After the Ebon Blade became certain she was not scourge loyal, they sent her off to join the Horde, since this is post WoTLK, Mograine's recommendation was able to get her in since obviously she would not have had a letter from Fordring.

As far as I can see, this explanation for my DK being a fresh horde recruit isn't to far fetched, if anyone cares to correct me, I'm all ears! I try my best to keep lore accurate!
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Mage
7235
It depends on how you explain the freedom I think. If you say the momentary weakness before Bolvar took over, then he'd regain power over you when he took over and you would be at his command. Reasonably speaking. It's an entirely fictional area so it may be possible depending on who you RP with. It might be easier to say you gained sentience prior to his fall and have only recently ventured out because you no longer fear retribution. Or val'kyr.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6255
You can pretend as much as your heart desires as long as you do not ignore whats set in stone. Meaning IF you are a DK, you fall under what I quoted. You were at light's hope, you got thrown as fodder in a battle. And then when your mind was free you fought to free Acherus. After which you were sent to your faction.... now what happens between here, and you entering you faction city is up for RP. But you can not alter the facts.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
Short version: No. There are no new Death Knights.

The only person who has the present-time ability to create them (that we know of) is currently staring at his hands in icecrown... and I doubt he'll make more any time soon.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Warrior
8370
You can pretend as much as your heart desires as long as you do not ignore whats set in stone. Meaning IF you are a DK, you fall under what I quoted. You were at light's hope, you got thrown as fodder in a battle. And then when your mind was free you fought to free Acherus. After which you were sent to your faction.... now what happens between here, and you entering you faction city is up for RP. But you can not alter the facts.


Of course, I had to do those starter quest to get my death knight out of the starter zone, though I do not consider that quest line to have been done IC for my death knight.

Why would I want to break free of using the set starter quest as my IC story, and use my own?

Lets think of the actual size of what was going on during the Death Knight starter quest.
You're telling me that every Death Knight PC, that exist, has existed, and will exist was there with you during the whole quest chain? All doing the exact same things? That would mean there was several THOUSAND people cramped inside the basement of that building at the same time that saved that blood elf DK, hell, I doubt Archus itself could support that many people all at once! And if every death knight player in existence was at the Battle of Light's hope as you say they was, I'm pretty sure the Argent Crusade would have lost just to the sheer zerg rush.

With that in mind, it seems a lot more believable that not all DK player characters took part in the DK starter campaign, in fact..very few in compassion to the overall DK community should even use that as their main back story, unless you are to have me believe the former situation that every DK in that ever was was all taking turns putting on that scarlet Currier disguise one after another, and the SC didn't get suspicious after a while.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6255
SNIP


I had a short story as a rebuttal, but I'll summarize. Follow the phases not the quests in the starting scenario. Yes all playable DK's were at Light's Hope. You can not substitute the lore, with your imagination. No more then a Vietnam veteran can substitute that they were on vacation in Mexico, rather then knee deep in mud and blood. Playable DK's are a battalion not the full force under the LK's command and were free after light's hope, that started the chain reaction. The DK's in other places at that time are different battalions, and have no over lap with the one you play.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13010
Why is going with the flow of lore so horrible that everyone wants to go full snowflake against it?
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Mage
11345
Why is going with the flow of lore so horrible that everyone wants to go full snowflake against it?

How dare they try to be creative and think for themselves!
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6255
04/25/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Dazlum
Why is going with the flow of lore so horrible that everyone wants to go full snowflake against it?

How dare they try to be creative and think for themselves!


Sarcasm aside, no one here is saying you can't be "creative and think for themselves!". Thing is some things in a story, are set in stone, and you can not tiptoe around them. In this case lore dictates ALL playable DK's were in the legion that was sent to light's hope to die, and you got freedom. Instead of death.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13010
04/25/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Dazlum
Why is going with the flow of lore so horrible that everyone wants to go full snowflake against it?

How dare they try to be creative and think for themselves!


It takes more creativity and thought to work within a lore or rule structure than to totally ignore it.
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Mage
11345
Okay, I was being pointlessly sarcastic, but the lore isn't so concrete as that.

Most roleplayers I know (myself included) seperate their personal stories from what's given to them through quests. It leads to more interesting and varied characters. This doesn't, however, necessarily mean they're breaking the rules. Some examples:

The lore suggests that all playable pandaren must be from the Wandering Isles, but plenty of Pandaren ICly hail from Pandaria.

Similarly, all playable goblins 'should' be Bilgewater refugees from Kezan, but there's nothing stopping a goblin roleplayer claiming their character is a Steamwheedle employees from, say, Ratchet or Booty Bay.

Worgen - all worgen characters begin in Gilneas, but there's room in the lore for characters to RP worgen from, say, Duskwood or Silverpine.

All humans and orcs enter the game as complete novices from Elwynn and Durotar respectively, but I know plenty of both who roleplay their character as veterans of the Third War.

All the above are pretty commonplace examples of players deviating from what Blizzard have stated their characters to be in-game, but aren't breaking lore in the slightest - nor do they attract any ire from their fellows.

Now, death knights. While the vast majority of death knights are from Acherus, there's quite a few who aren't. And, in a similar vein to the examples above, there's no compelling reason why players can't choose to play their DK as such.

Back on topic:

There's two pieces of evidence to support the raising of new DKs.

One - the original pre-Wrath Naxxramas was full of death knight minions and, notably, the Four Horsemen, but at the time Arthas was napping in Icecrown. From what I remember, the Ashbringer comic also suggests that Kel'thuzad was the one who turned Darion Mograine. And two - if you hang around in the starter zone, you'll notice that the Lich King isn't the one actually raising death knights - it's his necromancer disciples.

I'd say it's within the Ebon Blade's capabilities. But whether they'd actually support such a thing is another matter entirely.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
7100
Naxxramus is taken down as part of the in game story. The only reason it is still floating there in game is for people to run it and see the content. I know it is difficult for people to comprehend, but the game is a morass of differing timelines.

There is only one place and time for death knights to be created. The death knight starter zone. The fact that death knights are a unique hero class starting at level 55 makes them a whole different class than the goblins, worgens and countless other races and classes.

The trainers in Acherus are no longer creating new death knights. You do not see them doing it when you are there to rune your weapons. As for the Valkyre, if they did start creating death knights it would be for the Horde only, and that would not be a good idea. Not only would the Horde Leadership come unglued at Sylvannus for trying to be a Lich Queen(King?) but there is no counterpart on the Alliance side.

The fact you see Pandaren running all over the continents even before the MOP expansion hit was to make the storyline transition smoother. I consider it to be impossible to keep up the lore of the game totally without leaks considering how many expansions we have already gone through and I am sure there are more to come.

There is a big difference in the fact the Ebon Blade might be capable of creating new death knights and the feasibility of them doing so. It would be a huge mistake on Darion Mograine's part assuming he can get away with it. Creating death knights is what got Arthas in trouble in the first place, no one is going to be doing it without attracting all kinds of attention! And not the good kind either.

So to answer the original question, no it is not possible to create new death knights in the current time line. It doesn't just bend lore it shatters it completely.
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
7250


Sarcasm aside, no one here is saying you can't be "creative and think for themselves!". Thing is some things in a story, are set in stone, and you can not tiptoe around them. In this case lore dictates ALL playable DK's were in the legion that was sent to light's hope to die, and you got freedom. Instead of death.


It doesn't. You are kind of just making things up here. In the Lore there are Death-Knights that are from Acherus, among others. The Lore doesn't mention anything about playable or non-playable because the lore ignores the players outside the game to treat Azeroth as an actual world. Just see Dazlums post for examples that I could not have said better myself.

There's being a Lore hound and supporting proper, logical conduct within the world, which I often do and then there is just being silly to the point where your suggestions are just as illogical as the people who are bending the lore.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13010
I personally never declared anything in this thread as lorebreaking, its a term the community can't even agree on the meaning of ffs.

I instead expressed exasperation in the form of a slightly rhetorical question at what seems to be a prevailing trend to disregard the entirety of the situation setup that Blizzard has given us in favor of folks attempting to make their characters unique and special. (But when everyone is doing it, it's not so special is it?)

I realize there are probably more folks than there appear to be who enjoy a strict conformance to lore, that they simply have no need to run things by others because they know they are in conformance.
Edited by Zandrae on 4/26/2013 12:05 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6255
SNIP


Truth be told, I know little from heart about the lore in WoW. As such nothing i said is in any way my personal opinion. I am simply stating sources, that tell the story.

From wowpedia: Go and read through, the DK page [http://www.wowpedia.org/Death_Knight#Background]

Nothing i said was my opinion, I quoted a source, and based what i said off that. If you want to show knowledge, state a source, that gives different info. And use it a back up else, sit down, and put that opinion back in your pocket.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]