Haste prot

90 Tauren Death Knight
10195
04/27/2013 02:20 AMPosted by Juis
Optimal gearing is bad, now?
It's not how the class was supposed to be played. Blizzard has stated it. But instead of just fixing the problem, they just nerf us in general.


huh...

Q:How do you feel active mitigation turned out and what would you do if you could change it?
A:We actually like it a lot. We want to make secondary stats (like haste is for paladins) more useful to all the tanks. We also might do something different with avoidance long term. It's functional but not as exciting as active mitigation in our opinion.


Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3226-Live-Developer-Q-A-Patch-5-2-and-Beyond

That to me sounds like they want Paladins to have the option to gear haste and want to make it so ALL classes have options like that. That kinda sounds like a COMPLETE contradiction to what you are stating.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
04/27/2013 02:39 AMPosted by Juis
That is the entire point of this whole thread, on whether or not people hate them, BECAUSE IT IS NOT HOW THE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED. Can you not read?


Aside from you being completely wrong here, I think you need a nap.

You'll feel better when you wake up, and maybe you'll actually understand what you're talking about.

Seriously, kiddo. This isn't worth getting your jimmies rustled.

Also: Vial is terrible for paladins. As a monk with tank swap fights, I walk around with ~50% dodge a lot of the time and I'm not sure I want it. That's how rare the proc is.
Edited by Rijdot on 4/27/2013 8:51 AM PDT
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90 Gnome Mage
12440
I think his rl or someone in guild asked why he doesn't use a haste build and he decided to voice his opinion to strangers instead of his guildie.
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100 Tauren Druid
15570
I think his rl or someone in guild asked why he doesn't use a haste build and he decided to voice his opinion to strangers instead of his guildie.


It's a shame this thread continues to exist all because one individual can't admit when he's wrong about something.
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04/27/2013 03:33 AMPosted by Juis
I tanked 3 bosses in ToT 10 man with an equally geared hasty. It was clear that he pulled more damage, and healed more. But then we got to dark animus and ohhhhhhh boy did he have a hard time hahaha. The damage from the first initial mobs and and random damage that you get from matter swap and if you mess up on anima ring was insane.


You mean this fight here?
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kf23eqe0l6okoa2n/sum/damageTaken/?s=11556&e=11860

Where he kept Sacred Shield up and you didn't?
Where he tanked about 90% of the mobs and you didn't?
Where his self heals/absorbs far outweigh the slight damage intake?
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100 Pandaren Monk
21430
For those reasons I love WoL.

I really REALLY like it's ability to provide us dream-crushing ammunition !

I'd also say, you should reconsider on the Ji-kun trinket, i got it in LFR and finally upgraded a 483 trinket. It procs a 32k heal (i know it says 23k, but my WoL says average hit was 32k) and crit twice for 66k. I'm not saying it's the best thing ever, but I really do want that trinket on heroic. WTB.


this is one thing that I'm considering and well .. and this is something that worked for me all those years in the tanking business.

the Ji-kun trinket is not one of those trinkets that you can put on a spreadsheet and say "ok, it reduces X dmg taken over the course of the fight".

Imo, tank trinkets are split in those categories:
- one use trinkets that are awesome in fights where the "on use" can help you handle some mechanics. Example Stay of Execution. It was an extremelly good trinket to help soak "big hit" mechanics.

- trinkets with passive stats that increase your overall survivability and if possible, have powerfull random procs. Example Rune of Re-Origination. The proc might be out of your control, but when it procs .. it's a kickass proc. But many trinkets with overall good stats, often have an irrelevant proc (like the str proc for the prot pally haste trinket .. or the agi proc from renataki .. I mean, those procs hardly make any difference in "problematic" situations).

- trinkets with passive stats and those "oh crap" procs. Example Spidersilk Spindle or Ji-Kun's Rising Winds. I think those procs have their places and merit. Ji-kun is a 48k heal + modifiers, and it can crit.

Tanks often have a "oh crap" tool. DKs have rune tap, monks have Expel Harm, both tied to <35% hp procs. Coupled with those "oh crap" trinkets, which often are in a very low cooldown ... can really help you staying alive.

I understand that overall dmg reduction is important .. but tanks usually die when things go wrong. And tank's death is also the initial trigger for a wipe.

So yeah, I think those "oh crap" trinkets, even if they have a lower overall reduction, they make up for it by making you stay alive on situations that you could be killed instead.
Edited by Leeflow on 4/27/2013 9:57 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
13490
You'll take my haste when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Also: my haste trinket provides more avoidance than your avoidance trinket.
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100 Human Warrior
15520
Seriously, kiddo. This isn't worth getting your jimmies rustled.


My sole contribution to this thread:

OP, this is for you: http://i.imgur.com/VWr6I.gif
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90 Human Death Knight
9035
Why didn't you stop feeding this... on the first page.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16465
But many trinkets with overall good stats, often have an irrelevant proc (like the str proc for the prot pally haste trinket .. or the agi proc from renataki .. I mean, those procs hardly make any difference in "problematic" situations).

True, we hardly care for the proc so much as the delicious base stats...but the proc isn't terrible. The boost to survival is miniscule but the damage boost is actually pretty good.

I know, "loltankdps", but in my cruddy little 10 man everything counts. When I can time my wings and avenger with my spark trink it can easily mean the difference between 2 and 3 stacks of OHGODIMBURNING on Megaera. Or during Troll Council when I'm left on Sul almost the entire time to snipe as many interrupts as possible, the damage really adds up. By the time its his turn to sip the Gara'jal Jesus Juice he's already got one foot in the grave.

Granted now that those bosses are on farm for us it makes far, faaar less difference...but back then, it was a nice little bonus.

Now would I rather be getting that haste along with, say, the on use effect of Soul Barrier? Hell yeah.
Edited by Leucen on 4/27/2013 12:15 PM PDT
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100 Pandaren Warrior
16360
Can I hijack this to pout that I can't use the troll transform trinket without wasting like 800-900 stats :(
Edited by Ðemolition on 4/27/2013 12:26 PM PDT
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95 Pandaren Monk
12130
I was sure just being a troll was worth like 40 ilevels though?
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100 Pandaren Warrior
16360
Once our ret gets his....it just might be worth it...
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100 Draenei Warrior
16800
Imo, tank trinkets are split in those categories:
You forgot the other category, the "clue to show people don't know how to gear" category, which includes Vial and Corpse Tongue Coin.
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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90 Human Paladin
13490
04/27/2013 12:14 PMPosted by Leucen
The boost to survival is miniscule but the damage boost is actually pretty good.


Not true actually, my thunderforged Spark is about 7.5% parry with about 20% uptime. The haste is great, but you really can't write off that proc.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16465
The boost to survival is miniscule but the damage boost is actually pretty good.


Not true actually, my thunderforged Spark is about 7.5% parry with about 20% uptime. The haste is great, but you really can't write off that proc.

Geez, it's that much? I know the uptime is crazy good, but I didn't know the strength translated into that much parry. I'm uhh, not a math guy.
Edited by Leucen on 4/27/2013 1:34 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8510
Haste is fun.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
19985
04/27/2013 12:14 PMPosted by Leucen
But many trinkets with overall good stats, often have an irrelevant proc (like the str proc for the prot pally haste trinket .. or the agi proc from renataki .. I mean, those procs hardly make any difference in "problematic" situations).

True, we hardly care for the proc so much as the delicious base stats...but the proc isn't terrible. The boost to survival is miniscule but the damage boost is actually pretty good.

I know, "loltankdps", but in my cruddy little 10 man everything counts. When I can time my wings and avenger with my spark trink it can easily mean the difference between 2 and 3 stacks of OHGODIMBURNING on Megaera. Or during Troll Council when I'm left on Sul almost the entire time to snipe as many interrupts as possible, the damage really adds up. By the time its his turn to sip the Gara'jal Jesus Juice he's already got one foot in the grave.

Granted now that those bosses are on farm for us it makes far, faaar less difference...but back then, it was a nice little bonus.

Now would I rather be getting that haste along with, say, the on use effect of Soul Barrier? Hell yeah.


I totally agree, like I said, I would love to use the trinket off Horridon. I've bonus rolled it every week (swapping to ret of course) and not gotten it. I just didn't want the OP to discount the expertise + heal proc trinket as a viable trinket. I do want it on heroic, since we're killing it on heroic now, and my co-tank already bonus rolled it. >< (AND WON'T EVEN USE IT STUPID DRUIDS).

But I can wear the 2 expertise trinkets and get almost as much haste (it's like 20 haste less) than the haste trinket I was wearing before. It's like a win-win. IMO a good tank knows when to swap out her/his trinket depending on the fight, and a 45k heal if you drop below 35% on a melee swing isn't that bad- especially since you don't have to do anything but wear it and reforge it into haste!
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100 Tauren Druid
14540
and my co-tank already bonus rolled it. >< (AND WON'T EVEN USE IT STUPID DRUIDS).


Should've swapped to feral. Ji-Kun's Rising Winds isn't on their loot list, but every other item of hers is :).
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
Why didn't you stop feeding this... on the first page.


Because it's not a troll, it's a kid throwing a tantrum. :P
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