Mistweaver Healing - why am I OOM?

90 Pandaren Monk
9295
Hi, I was hoping someone could enlighten me on mistweavers. My buddy is a similarly-geared holy paladin popping out really good heals on raid fights without going out of mana. He said he has no problem finishing the fight with mana, so he reforged much of his spirit to another stat.

I am envious because I feel like no matter how much spirit I stack (feel free to look at me in the armory) I have some serious mana issues. This is what I usually do:

Lay down my jade serpent statue, blackout kick for serpent's zeal, then jab to 3 chi, channel soothing mists on a wounded player followed by an instant-cast enveloping mists to consume those 3 chi and begin building mana tea stacks. When things get crazy I use surging mists. I also try to use renewing mists and uplift when the raid is taking damage.

All of this, however, leaves me VERY EASILY low on mana only minutes into the raid boss fight. Not only do I go OOM fast, but I feel like other healers with similar or worse gear can easily pull ahead of me on the healing meters and I'm wondering if this is because I'm missing out on other useful stats due to the amount of spirit I've gemmed for.

Anyone, please help! I feel like a failure at mistweaver right now.
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90 Human Priest
8320
Jabbing takes tons of mana. TONS. You can't afford to use it like that without taking advantage of Muscle Memory, which restores some mana when you use blackout kick or tiger palm. If you use jab as your primary chi builder without taking advantage of the mana restoration the Muscle Memory buff provides, you will oom very very quickly.

For example, when you jab to 3 chi at the beginning of the fight? That's a QUARTER of your mana bar for three chi. A single cast of soothing mist will net you something like 2-3 chi with AT LEAST one, and it costs the same as a single jab. Heals more too.
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100 Blood Elf Monk
6315
then jab to 3 chi


STOP RIGHT THERE.

If you're fistweaving, you need to Jab > Tigerpalm > Jab Tigerpalm. Each time you Jab, the next BoK or TP will refund about half the mana. Jabbing twice or even three times in a row without TP or BoKing will OOM you hard. Fistweaving isn't what it used to be, and it's arguably not viable outside of a couple fights and heroic farms/LFR.

If you want to be a MW and heal at your highest potential, you need to heal "traditionally," keep Renewing mists/Expel Harm on CD, uplift for spikes or when you're going to cap, mana tea on CD, and Soothing Mist/Envelop as a filler. Surging mist should rarely be used.
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90 Pandaren Monk
5055
I've just only started MW healing for PVE but here's somethings that work well for me that you're not doing.

1. Never, ever, ever use Jab. Cost far too much mana.
2. Only use surging mist in extreme dire situations (however remember that you have revival/life cacoon/ and with your HoTs ticking, two uplifts actually does more healing than one surging.)
3. Use Expel harm for chi gen. It's a cheap heal+ short cd+one chi. Tasty
4. Use ReM more. More ReM=More Uplifts=More tea=More healing=less deaths=more mana=happier people=boss kills=loot=raid progression.

I've been, personally, starting with ReM>chi wave>Expel>soothing>ENV on the MT(depending on fight)>ReM someone else>filler soothing for a few seconds>TFT>uplift>ReM on person without it>uplift spam. I also use all my spare chi on uplifting, or ENV if someone is taking heavy damage. Another good method is, if someone in particular is taking heavy damage and is stationary, throw our green orbs in their face. It does some tasty healing+verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry cheap healing.

Again, take what I say with a grain of salt, I've just started PVE healing.

EDIT: They filter the word C o o n....
Edited by Pulse on 4/30/2013 11:37 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
14515
1. Never, ever, ever use Jab. Cost far too much mana.


Jab is acceptable if it is followed by a Tiger Palm or Blackout Kick. Saying never to use it is wrong.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
4595
Well fistweaving is never really practicle or more to the point as good as fist weaving....but !@#$ get boring... :D. Just make sure to tiger or black out kick after every jab.
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90 Pandaren Monk
5055
04/30/2013 12:35 PMPosted by Feathring
1. Never, ever, ever use Jab. Cost far too much mana.


Jab is acceptable if it is followed by a Tiger Palm or Blackout Kick. Saying never to use it is wrong.


Maybe to get zeal running. Besides that you shouldn't use Jab as a Chi gainer.
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1 Troll Shaman
0
Maybe to get zeal running. Besides that you shouldn't use Jab as a Chi gainer.
Jab is fine as long as it is followed by TP or BLK.

Some fights like Horridon suit fistweaving above the traditional healing.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15245
I have never gone out of mana on a fight, even if I die and get a rez. within 30 seconds I am back to 50% mana and my wife is yelling at me on her druid because she's slowly OOMing.

And yes, I fistweave 100% of the time.

RM before pull > Expel Harm> BoK> Jab> TP> RM> Jab> TP> Jab> TP> Expel Harm> TP > Jab and so on and so on. Use your free Surging Mist as soon as it comes available regardless if anyone needs a heal or not as it gives you another Chi to Tiger Palm with or Blackout Kick if needed. Make sure to have Mana Tea glyphed and use it on CD so long as you have 2 stacks. I even use it with one stack at times because I know I can maintain the mana. I throw in Soothing mists here and there if I know I need to put enveloping mists on someone.

Seriously, monks have 0 mana issues.
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100 Pandaren Monk
18895
Everyone seems to answer it but are bickering about jab. The logic is ANYTIME YOU JAB you need to use TP or BoK.

The reasoning.
Jab costs 8% mana but you get a buff Muscle Memory.
Muscle Memory will return 4% mana when you use a TP or BoK.

So in your example you are using Jabx3 (24% of your mana spent) where if you are fist weaving properly then you would be Jab > TP x3 ((8% used 4% return)x3) which makes a total of 12% mana spent, alot more healing and 3 chi spent so almost 1 mana tea.

The concept of MW or FW monks is learning how to spend mana and CHI properly and to maximize the amount of mana tea you make.

Your tea stacks get removed at start of a raid boss, but your CHI does not, so one thing i like to do is front load Renewing Mists and CHI so once the boss starts i have 3-6 stacks of Renewing Mists and max chi. I can go ahead and burn my chi off the bat and have 1(maybe 2) stack(s) and be at 100% mana.

Best practice for a MW when starting is ALWAYS use chi the way you create chi, so if you are generating CHI by using melee abilities you should spend the CHI by using a melee ability. If you are generating CHI using ranged / Heals you gain no benefit of using melee chi ability (because lack of Muscle Memory Buff). As you get better with the class you will learn when it is ok to break out of the above logic.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8055
I feel the best way to realize your full potential as a Mistweaver is to use a mix of all available types of heals. This means fistweaving, while still throwing out traditional healing when needed.

Please check my armory. I stopped having mana issues while 100% fistweaving AND casting at about 12k combat regen. I only ever blackout kick to keep up the buff, the rest of the time, I'm throwing out RM on cd, at times of big raid heals, I make sure to use Thunder Focus Tea to get RM to stay on as many people as possible, then spam uplift. This includes using jab as chi builder during this. But I NEVER use jab again until I have used Muscle Memory. This means using SMists or expel or another RM to generate that chi. The buff that gives us our free Surging is just too huge to pass up, so throwing in TP whenever you have light healing and a bunch of chi will give you time to regen while still throwing out moderate healing and working towards that free SM.

For those of you that are straight traditional healing, you're missing out on a steady stream of free heals by not using your blackout kick. Get the most out of your monk, I say, and use every available ability you have.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10325
First of all, mana regen for monk is all about chi management. You need to maximize your chi generation while minimizing your mana usage. It sounds like I'm stating the obvious, but this has more to do with casting the right spells at the right moment.

When I heal on my monk - I don't consider any chi generated by jab to be useful since I always use THAT chi to use up my Muscle Memory. Doing so otherwise is wasteful unless you really need that chi to cast Uplift or some other spell. Jab eats up a lot of your mana, so you better utilize MM to gain some of that mana back.

Aside from that, I generate chi mostly through ReM or single target heal. Spinning Crane Kick is also pretty awesome in terms of mana efficiency if your party is clumped up. Uplift should also be used as many times with Thunder Brew as possible. This helps your ReM stack on more players and ultimately increase your HPM.

Lastly - don't waste mana on places where you don't have to. Notice your healer comp's strength and weaknesses; for example, if you have plenty of single target healers, there is no need for you to spam your spells into overhealing a tank unless there is about to be heavy tank damage. It is better if you sit there rather than overhealing yourself or let your other healer overheal. "Healing assignments" have gotten relatively dead after Burning Crusade - but doing so is still amazing since it ensures that every healer does his/her job with minimal overhealing and mana waste.

Don't feel like you have to spam for chi generation just so you get more Mana Tea stacks. Keep in mind that Mana Tea usage is still a negative mana gain - it is meant to help replenish mana you have already SPENT - not gain a positive net mana. You rely on Spirit regen for that.
Edited by Bubblewall on 5/1/2013 1:32 PM PDT
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05/01/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Bubblewall
every healer does his/her job with minimal overhealing and mana waste.

Overhealing is not a bad thing for monks. Worry about not capping chi...

Keep in mind that Mana Tea usage is still a negative mana gain - it is meant to help replenish mana you have already SPENT - not gain a positive net mana. You rely on Spirit regen for that.

And Crit.

I'm at the point where my fistweave-rotation, including muscle memory and mana tea consumption, is actually mana neutral.
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100 Pandaren Monk
8020
I have 3000 less spirit and only 2% more crit, and I have 2 healed all the bosses that I have downed in 10man. I have no mana issues.

You can't use Jab to generate chi if you aren't spending that chi on BoK or TP. It simply isn't mana efficient. If you are casting chi generating move when at max chi you are losing out on a lot of mana.

Other than that it is hard to tell what is causing your mana issues without seeing a log. Just make sure you are using ReM on cooldown, using a proper move for filler, and spending your chi. Mana really should never be an issue for a monk. If you are having mana issues with more than 9k spirit and 15% crit you can assume it is something you are doing wrong with casts.

Also people saying you "need" to heal traditionally are not entirely right. You can fistweave on all the bosses in ToT normal I have done so far, and we 2 heal everything. It is just a matter of knowing when you will have to do big aoe heals and when you can just fistweave for filler. It shouldn't cause mana issues if you do it right pure fistweaving should be mana neutral.
Edited by Mahavira on 5/1/2013 8:08 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
7390
abandon fistweaving. For now. get comfortable with mistweaving. avoid surging mists. just realize your role is not burst tank healing. its overall raid healing. be that 25, or 10 man.

once you can mistweave an entire fight without going oom, you can think about fistweaving again. just please dear god learn how mistweaving works.
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100 Gnome Monk
7025
Ok, just for clarification. I'm not gimping myself by just healing traditionally am i? I've tried fist-weaving and its just not for me.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
0
definitely not
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90 Human Priest
8320
Ok, just for clarification. I'm not gimping myself by just healing traditionally am i? I've tried fist-weaving and its just not for me.


It's a DPS gain but HPS loss, so if you are in a fight with a very tight enrage timer and relatively low damage to the raid/tanks, having the ability to mix in fistweaving is valuable to the raid. That said, I'm 100% certain that every encounter in the game can be healed without touching jab. It's just a luxury is all.
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