Did WoW Kill Dungeons and Dragons?

100 Human Warrior
10670
Or did Wizards of the Coast do that all by themselves?
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52 Human Monk
4795
Given 4E was a WoW clone, yes. They killed it themselves. I still play, but only 3.5.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
16140
4E kinda sucks but it makes things a bit easier for video games and complete newbs. I mean "I've never touched a pen and paper game in my life and I want to DM" newbs.

3.5 is still a bit of a headache for new players, and the last time I played before recently was 2nd edition which was even *more* of a headache.

We're currently playing Pathfinder, which is a modified 3.5, and more streamlined in a bunch of aspects, and expanded in others(mostly class related).
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100 Human Paladin
16290
5th edition is turning out to be pretty good
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100 Undead Warlock
9260
no D&D is just fine

it's just called Pathfinder now
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90 Human Paladin
10090
Fourth Edition killed Dungeons and Dragons.

"Get your MMO out of my pen and paper!"
"You get your pen and paper out of my MMO!"
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28 Undead Mage
0
If D&D does die, it was Lorraine Williams that put the events leading to its death in motion.
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I mean "I've never touched a pen and paper game in my life and I want to DM" newbs
So... Like me?

It wasn't my choice! I wasn't exposed to it when I was younger!
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90 Draenei Warrior
2030
05/04/2013 09:50 AMPosted by Stax
I mean "I've never touched a pen and paper game in my life and I want to DM" newbs
So... Like me?

It wasn't my choice! I wasn't exposed to it when I was younger!

Neither was I, but I spent HOURS reading the DMG and such of 3.5E.
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92 Goblin Mage
6550
I think the opposite. People who never would have considered d&d might try it after playing wow as, obviously, there are many similarities. However, they need to stay with what made 3e so strong... the freedom of making any sort of character you wanted since the classes were miscible.
Edited by Biffin on 5/4/2013 5:23 PM PDT
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90 Undead Warlock
0
The terrible spergs who love 3rd edition is what killed DnD. 4e was the best wizards of the coast dnd product made. Now we are getting mike mearls version of 3.75. It will not shock me at all if hasbro kills the franchise after next sells like crap.

Pathfinder and 3.5 as written are terrible games and no one plays them RAW so its funny that people even talk about them glowingly because you are most likely running some house ruled version of the game that would not even be recognized anymore.

Also enjoying all the people thinking 4e plays like an mmo because they A. Never played 4e and think that or B. Never played Dnd before 3rd edition because they would realize it is much closer to traditional dnd then 3.x or pathfinder will ever be.
Edited by Vespir on 5/4/2013 8:52 PM PDT
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100 Undead Warlock
9260
The terrible spergs who love 3rd edition is what killed DnD. 4e was the best wizards of the coast dnd product made. Now we are getting mike mearls version of 3.75. It will not shock me at all if hasbro kills the franchise after next sells like crap.

Pathfinder and 3.5 as written are terrible games and no one plays them RAW so its funny that people even talk about them glowingly because you are most likely running some house ruled version of the game that would not even be recognized anymore.

Also enjoying all the people thinking 4e plays like an mmo because they A. Never played 4e and think that or B. Never played Dnd before 3rd edition because they would realize it is much closer to traditional dnd then 3.x or pathfinder will ever be.


someone seems bitter that 4E died alone in a ditch somewhere.
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100 Human Mage
20670
The terrible spergs who love 3rd edition is what killed DnD. 4e was the best wizards of the coast dnd product made. Now we are getting mike mearls version of 3.75. It will not shock me at all if hasbro kills the franchise after next sells like crap.

Pathfinder and 3.5 as written are terrible games and no one plays them RAW so its funny that people even talk about them glowingly because you are most likely running some house ruled version of the game that would not even be recognized anymore.

Also enjoying all the people thinking 4e plays like an mmo because they A. Never played 4e and think that or B. Never played Dnd before 3rd edition because they would realize it is much closer to traditional dnd then 3.x or pathfinder will ever be.


someone seems bitter that 4E died alone in a ditch somewhere.


I'm betting either a WotC employee, or someone going for sunk costs justification.
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100 Tauren Druid
14515
Neverwinter online is a good D&D game how ever the graphics are terrible and the gameplay is very linear
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100 Undead Warlock
9260


someone seems bitter that 4E died alone in a ditch somewhere.


I'm betting either a WotC employee, or someone going for sunk costs justification.


honestly the main reasons 4E failed can be laid at the feet of WoTC

1) they were antagonistic to their own fan base from the start. Edition Wars are to be expected but it's quite another thing for the company itself to fire the first shot.
2) they failed to provide digital tools they promised to have at release.
3) they discarded traditional elements of the game in favor of flashy new ones with no substance. Gnomes and Half-Orcs dropped for Dragonkin, another race of elves and Tieflings? No Bards, No Druids, No Barbarians
4) Forced homogenization at the expense of common sense. At-will, encounter and daily might make sense for spellcasters but for Fighters and Rogue? "I know how to hit you Real REALLY hard with my weapon, but I can only do it once per day or I might break a nail?"
5) Too much emphasis on turning it into a miniature's combat board game while ignoring other aspects of the game. Their "skill challenge" system which was supposed to be the backbone for non-combat challenges was broken from the start and they never managed to fix it.
6) a Production schedule that pumped out hardcover books every month, pushing the limits of even the most ardent collector's wallet

4E was a PR disaster.

5E is at least shaping up a bit better but who knows if it'll be enough to save the brand name
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100 Undead Warlock
9260
no 4e ran it over with a semi truck. then took the corpse and beat it to death with a tire iron.
now let us never speak of this monstrosity again.
i much prefer 3.5 to 4th edition. ill even play 2nd edition before i'd play 4th edition and i really dont like 2nd edition. 3.5 has so many options compared to those 2.


actually one of the best things about 2nd Ed, is something Pathfinder added back in and expanded on.

Kits

Pathfinder made them Archetypes

and D&D Next is calling them Subclasses
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90 Human Paladin
10090
The terrible spergs who love 3rd edition is what killed DnD. 4e was the best wizards of the coast dnd product made. Now we are getting mike mearls version of 3.75. It will not shock me at all if hasbro kills the franchise after next sells like crap.


Funny how an entirely new company arose out of them abandoning 3.5 to make fourth edition, and that new company who just aped the mechanics of 3.5 thoroughly and completely outsold fourth edition. Pathfinder proved to the D&D community that fourth edition was a gross misstep. Hell, everything about fourth edition and what was done during that time was just... awful.

The cancellation of Dragon and Dungeon magazines. As a longtime subscriber of both, it was a slap in the face to be told my subscription was not to be filled anymore because with fourth edition, WotC wanted to move to purely digital media.

And what of video games? AD&D, Second Edition, Third Edition, Three-point-Five... all of them had enormously popular titles with them. From Pools of Radiance to the superb Baldur's Gate series, Neverwinter Nights, Temple of Elemental Evil, Eye of the Beholder and so on.

What games came out for the fourth edition playset?

Nothing.

Not even the online-only DDO which ran concurrently with fourth edition. They even made that a bastardized version of 3.5.

The reality of the situation is clear. Fourth edition was, is and forever shall be garbage. The only people who rally to it are the people who haven't played other editions, or people who invested so much money into it, they feel cornered into having to defend it.
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100 Undead Warlock
9260


actually one of the best things about 2nd Ed, is something Pathfinder added back in and expanded on.

Kits

Pathfinder made them Archetypes

and D&D Next is calling them Subclasses

my problem with second edition was it was so restrictive in what you could and couldnt do with your class compared to 3.5.


probably why I considered the Kits the best thing in 2nd (at least until the Player's option books hit at the end of the line) they were the best way to customize your character a little.

Pathfinder did a wonderful job turning the idea into Archetypes. I have my eye on either a Tactical or a Cad archetype Fighter for our next campaign
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