Tortos healing, rdruid help? Have logs.

90 Blood Elf Priest
8945
Hey there,

Our resto druid is significantly below myself (dpriest) and our hpally on our Tortos attempts, and I was wondering if I could get some advice. I know absolutely nothing about resto, so I'm struggling to work out where they're going wrong (or at least where they can improve).

I'm logged out in my pvp gear, but I'm running 508ilvl. Our paladin is 510. I'll armory link to our resto (505) so you can give me an idea if it's some combination of healing comp/spell usage/gearing/something else, maybe. I know my absorbs make this a lot easier, but it just seems that she's a lot lower than she should be.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mbk6us3lbtqr3rao/
Link to logs.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/area-52/Xypher%C3%ACa/advanced
Link to armory.

Really, really looking for constructive criticism here. We weren't running with the easiest comp last night (3 melee D:) and people were standing in the bad, but I need to make sure my healers are doing what they're meant to. Advice please?
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90 Human Paladin
15480
I only looked at your two longest attempts and this is what i can see that your druid could do better.

1) Harmony uptime
2) Lifebloom uptime

But i can tell you one thing for certain is that it is not a healing problem that is holding you back. You guys are taking insane damage from rockfall. Not sure you are aware but there is splash damage that goes 20 yards from where the blue circle is.

If you clean that up you will win.

Just for reference our kill this past week had a combined hps of 192khps while three healing where your 2:34sec attempt had 198khps.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pjzivsh60a63mw7d/sum/healingDone/?s=6293&e=6631
Edited by Taelaus on 4/26/2013 6:24 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
First, druid is use Hydra poo trinket. Make them go read the trinket rankings for healers / druid healers.

Second, that's a lot of regrowth, not enough swiftmend, and no tranq or incarnation/soul of the forest (whatever talent he has, I'm to lazy to open more links).

Third, no shrooms. This is nit-picky, since shrooms aren't OP yet, but laying them down throughout melee does help.

Forth... reduce raid damage taken. Melee shuffling together from the far left side to the far right side the moment the inital wave of post quake cave'in markers spawn might save you a lot of healing (20y ranged on wider/weaker cave'in damage).
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8945
Aware of the raid damage being taken - that's being dealt with. This is the first time for the guild we've bothered to run WoL, but she's behind by about that much constantly, so I suspect whatever it is isn't limited to Tortos. I'm less concerned about why we're wiping on Tortos (when people stop standing in the bad), and just wanting to help her sort out her healing. She's relatively new to rdruiding (main switched for us), so I just want to be absolutely sure she's using what she's meant to be using.
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90 Human Paladin
15480
She's relatively new to rdruiding (main switched for us), so I just want to be absolutely sure she's using what she's meant to be using.


Pit made some good points. They are in balance spec so kind of hard to tell from a stats point of view but looks okay.

On a side note a resto druid is always going to look worse on WoL when healing with a paladin and a disc due to reactive vs proactive healing. I linked my parse in my above post as that is the resto druid i am currently raiding on.

edit: would also suggest Glyph of Wild Growth as the rest of the glyphs aren't that good anyway.
Edited by Taelaus on 4/26/2013 7:10 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8945
Really appreciate the feedback. Thank you :)


On a side note a resto druid is always going to look worse on WoL when healing with a paladin and a disc due to reactive vs proactive healing. I linked my parse in my above post as that is the resto druid i am currently raiding on.


This is part of what I was asking, too. I know not everything translates well into epeen charts, so I wanted to make sure the way she was healing was fine considering who she's healing with. Thanks for confirming that for me.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
Expect 20% less output out of the druid in most fight conditions where they are healing with a disc priest and paladin. Simply by using 3 healers, on most fights you'll see an increase in the amount of overhealing that occurs. Since absorbs are nearly just as effective in high overheal situations as low overheal situations, that leaves a much smaller amount of healing left to be done by actual heals.

Wild Growth is pretty much always good. My druid at a similar ilvl is big fan of rejuv glyph since it makes nourish MUCH faster and with that nourish is a good cheap lifebloom and symbiosis refresher... that's a personal choice/gear thing though, you can just as easily refresh symbiosis with perfect swiftmend usage and refresh LB with LB/regrowth.

Also, might want to have them check to see what lvl90 talent is ideal now, I haven't read as much 5.2 druid lit as pretty much every other class, but my guess is that Heart of the Wild pulled ahead since you can't get a 20% boost from vigil to your tranq anymore (only 10%).

EDIT: Deleted silly mistake caused by quick viewing of lifebloom glyph thinking it was blooming not LB swapping.
Edited by Pitkanen on 4/26/2013 8:05 AM PDT
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100 Draenei Priest
13965
The op posted this in the druid forums and I'll just reiterate what I said there and say that the healing issues you are having are not due to a lack of healing but due to a lack of dps.

Your raid is dieing within the first 2 minutes of the fight, many times lasting barely 1 minute. You have only 2 ranged dps to burn turtles and 3 melee dps. People are dieing to breaths cause the turtles aren't dieing fast enough. The tanks are dieing to bats cause the bats aren't dieing fast enough. People are dieing to rockfall cause they are trying to avoid turtles cause the turtles aren't dieing fast enough.

The reason your druid is at the bottom of the healing charts is because the only boss attack that does a large amount of raid damage, his stomps, is absorbed by the priest and the pally. This leaves nothing for the druid to heal up. The deaths that come after stomps are too fast for any healer to respond to and is the result of a lack of overall dps to make all of those deaths avoidable.

Drop to 2 healers, kill the adds before they become a problem, and avoid avoidable damage.
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100 Tauren Druid
10160
Second, that's a lot of regrowth, not enough swiftmend, and no tranq or incarnation/soul of the forest (whatever talent he has, I'm to lazy to open more links).

Third, no shrooms. This is nit-picky, since shrooms aren't OP yet, but laying them down throughout melee does help.


I assumed that these are low/missing because all the fights were ending after 1-2 minutes.
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100 Tauren Druid
14180
The op posted this in the druid forums and I'll just reiterate what I said there and say that the healing issues you are having are not due to a lack of healing but due to a lack of dps.

Your raid is dieing within the first 2 minutes of the fight, many times lasting barely 1 minute. You have only 2 ranged dps to burn turtles and 3 melee dps. People are dieing to breaths cause the turtles aren't dieing fast enough. The tanks are dieing to bats cause the bats aren't dieing fast enough. People are dieing to rockfall cause they are trying to avoid turtles cause the turtles aren't dieing fast enough.

The reason your druid is at the bottom of the healing charts is because the only boss attack that does a large amount of raid damage, his stomps, is absorbed by the priest and the pally. This leaves nothing for the druid to heal up. The deaths that come after stomps are too fast for any healer to respond to and is the result of a lack of overall dps to make all of those deaths avoidable.

Drop to 2 healers, kill the adds before they become a problem, and avoid avoidable damage.


This. This. This.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mbk6us3lbtqr3rao/deaths/?enc=bosses&boss=67977

Almost all of your deaths on all Tortos attempts is to the Breath. This means either your shells aren't going down in time or you kicker isn't hitting them properly.
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
1. Your druid seems to be using a lot of Regrowth. Looking further into it, your longest attempt which was only 2 minutes... Your rdruid was healing the !@#$ out of your feral tank, who I'm guessing is your bat tank. Let's put it this way, your rdruid was keeping that tank up way more than the both you and the paladin, and that's a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge no-no.

You and the paladin need to be in charge of the tanks, not your rdruid. That's really bad. You need to keep that tank up above ~80%, 100% of the time the bats are alive.

2. Your kicker is not kicking, or is just missing.

3. Rockfall damage is not a big deal, because it's unrealistic to run around like chickens with your heads cut off just to avoid the aoe it does. Just don't stand in the blue circle, heal up the damage.

It's hard to even take much from what I'm looking at since it's only 2 minutes, but I'm telling you right now, your rdruid is not the problem.
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90 Worgen Druid
13940
1. Your druid seems to be using a lot of Regrowth. Looking further into it, your longest attempt which was only 2 minutes... Your rdruid was healing the !@#$ out of your feral tank, who I'm guessing is your bat tank. Let's put it this way, your rdruid was keeping that tank up way more than the both you and the paladin, and that's a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge no-no.


If they want to assign the druid to that tank, there's no reason they can't, and it certainly isn't a reason for wiping on tortos. Druid can still help with raid healing while doing tank healing just fine; I've been doing it since t9.

For the op, if you guys normally have your druid tank healing and that's how you're used to doing things, I wouldn't change it unless you're wiping because of tank deaths or if the druid herself isn't actually comfortable filling that role. My guild's been running me as one of the tank healers since we created the guild, and before then, our other two healers were my heal leads in our old guild and assigned me to a tank there as well; we do it that way because I prefer tank healing (helping out on raid as necessary) and our priest prefers raid healing.
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100 Troll Druid
11865
My druid at a similar ilvl is big fan of rejuv glyph since it makes nourish MUCH faster and with that nourish is a good cheap lifebloom and symbiosis refresher


That's the worst advice ever.

If they want to assign the druid to that tank, there's no reason they can't, and it certainly isn't a reason for wiping on tortos. Druid can still help with raid healing while doing tank healing just fine; I've been doing it since t9.


Why would anyone in their right mind place a Rdruid on tank healing when you have a paladin and a priest in the raid? Please explain such a mentality to me.
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100 Worgen Druid
13380
Druids are excellent tank healers, and a good one should be able to do so while also at almost 70-80% of their raid healing potential.

Even if they are almost entirely focused on raid, with minimal tank hardcasts, a Druid will often be #2 on tank heals on just LB/Rejuv alone.

As for the OP: As people have noted, your Druid seems to be casting far too many regrowths. If he feels forced to do so to keep the bat tank up, or is just doing so incorrectly, it is horribly inefficient. He should have LB/Rejuiv rolling on the tank(s), and be supported by the other healers enough to only need occasional/sporadic Regrowths on the tanks, while being freed up in GCDs and Mana to use more rejuv and WG on the raid, and better use/place swiftmend.
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/26/2013 11:25 PM PDT
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100 Troll Druid
11865
Druids are excellent tank healers, and a good one should be able to do so while also at almost 70-80% of their raid healing potential.


I heal 10 man so of course I heal the tanks and don't have a 'role'. But if you going to argue that we're as good as a paladin or priest at this job ten I don't know what to say honestly.
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100 Tauren Druid
9545
Simple;

Run SOTF, not incarnation.
Run HoTw.

You have 2 mdps. Have the Mdps and tank on tortos run together during rockfalls. They should be nearly always stacked together within at max 8 yards. Allowing Rdruids SM to hit all of them. Run with them at all times.

This is what I do. Ill stack in the middle of them all and drop SM on myself to maximize Efflo half a second before quake stomp's stun (doing lots of healing during the stun) and I have rejuvs rolling on every raid member I can before that quake stomp.

I also have shroom's fully charged at one side of tortos for every quake stomp. We move from the right side of the room to the left for the first stomp, left to right second, etc etc. This allows melee/tortos tank to always be in similar range and to have a predictable path of rockfalls.

The result is that half a second before every quake stomp I have a 5.2 2pc SM healing all melee + tank + myself for the duration of the stun, immediately upon release of the stun I pop shrooms = half the raid full health. (I run with the same number of mdps as you, and our OT on bats, kites them into melee)

Hpal and Dpriest will snipe heals, but the quake stomp is the resto druids mechanic. This is where we can absolutely shine. Abuse the crap out of it with preplaced swiftmend, shrooms for immediately after the stun, SotF WG (unfortunately your WoL doesn't show a shaman, but a SotF spiritwalker tranq would be very good here as well)

Run with the melee. don't be a donkey and sit at long range like most brain dead healers. Sit in melee and use your Aoe heals to their max effectiveness.
Edited by Tonydanza on 4/27/2013 12:28 AM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
Druids are excellent tank healers, and a good one should be able to do so while also at almost 70-80% of their raid healing potential.

Even if they are almost entirely focused on raid, with minimal tank hardcasts, a Druid will often be #2 on tank heals on just LB/Rejuv alone.

Hey genius, the guy raids 10 man. Not ezmodelawlzherezlifebloom tank heals 25m.
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100 Tauren Druid
9545
I'd also like to add;

I don't know exactly what the issue is with Guardian Druids on this fight. But our Guardian druid (who is subsequently no longer with us.. probably because of this fight, not my decision but ...yeah...) had reallly major bad issues with this encounter, on the bats and on the boss.

On the bats he was marginally better, but it was still fairly hectic and did indeed require far more regrowths than I EVER throw up during a normal encounter. And this guardian druid was a guy I had raided with for just about a year now. He wasn't a world beater, but he wasn't a moron.

Very very spikey on this fight...
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100 Worgen Druid
13380
04/27/2013 12:12 AMPosted by Moophious
Druids are excellent tank healers, and a good one should be able to do so while also at almost 70-80% of their raid healing potential.


I heal 10 man so of course I heal the tanks and don't have a 'role'. But if you going to argue that we're as good as a paladin or priest at this job ten I don't know what to say honestly.


I am in fact saying we are as good or better than Priests, not Paladins though. You do not have to say anything.

Druids are excellent tank healers, and a good one should be able to do so while also at almost 70-80% of their raid healing potential.

Even if they are almost entirely focused on raid, with minimal tank hardcasts, a Druid will often be #2 on tank heals on just LB/Rejuv alone.

Hey genius, the guy raids 10 man. Not ezmodelawlzherezlifebloom tank heals 25m.


As if that matters, and lol at the guy who doesn't even know the difference between HPS and total healing trying to analyze logs or remark on intelligence.
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5 Human Warlock
0
It almost looks like your raid is approaching this fight as normal fight rather than a gimmick fight. Are people getting their shield buffs ASAP? The druid should be filling those buffs with Rejuv and making sure everyone gets filled up before whamo time. That should push his Rejuv EH way up to like 50% or so. Instead he is focusing the bear. Also your bear should be healing himself for a lot more than he is. He is relying on your poor resto druid to keep his !@# alive and thus the Regrowth spammage. On our fights our bear typically heals himself for twice as much as any healer. Tell your bear to take better care of himself and tell your resto to fill those buffers to max. Your healers should be using an addon that tells them how full everyone's buffers are.
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