Tortos healing, rdruid help? Have logs.

90 Troll Druid
7060
It almost looks like your raid is approaching this fight as normal fight rather than a gimmick fight. Are people getting their shield buffs ASAP? The druid should be filling those buffs with Rejuv and making sure everyone gets filled up before whamo time. That should push his Rejuv EH way up to like 50% or so. Instead he is focusing the bear. Also your bear should be healing himself for a lot more than he is. He is relying on your poor resto druid to keep his !@# alive and thus the Regrowth spammage. On our fights our bear typically heals himself for twice as much as any healer. Tell your bear to take better care of himself and tell your resto to fill those buffers to max. Your healers should be using an addon that tells them how full everyone's buffers are.


Woosh!

Anyway, tell them to run SotF and just SotF + WG every quake stomp. You can also SotF + tranq instead of WG when it's off CD. Also, keep shrooms in melee and blows those for quakes. Here's a link to my logs for this weeks Tortos 10m. We also run the same healing comp.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jkj9pyg9f6w150e4/sum/healingDone/?s=1089&e=1345
Edited by Cantbearyou on 4/27/2013 1:21 AM PDT
Reply Quote
5 Human Warlock
0
04/27/2013 01:20 AMPosted by Cantbearyou
It almost looks like your raid is approaching this fight as normal fight rather than a gimmick fight. Are people getting their shield buffs ASAP? The druid should be filling those buffs with Rejuv and making sure everyone gets filled up before whamo time. That should push his Rejuv EH way up to like 50% or so. Instead he is focusing the bear. Also your bear should be healing himself for a lot more than he is. He is relying on your poor resto druid to keep his !@# alive and thus the Regrowth spammage. On our fights our bear typically heals himself for twice as much as any healer. Tell your bear to take better care of himself and tell your resto to fill those buffers to max. Your healers should be using an addon that tells them how full everyone's buffers are.


Woosh!

Anyway, tell them to run SotF and just SotF + WG every quake stomp. You can also SotF + tranq instead of WG when it's off CD. Also, keep shrooms in melee and blows those for quakes. Here's a link to my logs for this weeks Tortos 10m. We also run the same healing comp.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jkj9pyg9f6w150e4/sum/healingDone/?s=1089&e=1345


Wooops! Thought we were talking heroic.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
11345
I'm going to echo what most people have been saying: the wipes aren't your druid's fault. Your raid is wiping to the raid's mechanics, not to a lack of healing.

As to your other question: is he doing what he's supposed to? Yes and no. Given your heal composition, the only thing any resto druid can do is fill in gaps left behind by the other healers' absorbs and burst healing. It seems that he may have been assigned to healing the Guardian druid (bat tank), or he just found that it was most necessary for him to be healing that target. In any case, it's a less than ideal situation for him.

But more to the point, are there things he can be doing better? Most certainly.

-His spike healing is relatively low, meaning he's probably not pre-blanketing the raid with rejuv before quake stomps go out.

-He should also be using swiftmend+wild growth immediately following stomps. SoTF is a clear winner over broccoli form on this fight imo. Especially because there's no shaman for him to symbiosis. SoTF means he can swiftmend > tranq and not have to worry much about his tranquility being interrupted by rockfall.

-More swiftmend and wild growth usage in general would be beneficial for him, too: they're our most efficient spells apart from lifebloom and tranq.

-Mushrooms. He might not be able to predict where the bat tank is going to be, but the Tortos tank should be relatively stationary and able to stay in range. Stacked mushrooms can make a great emergency tank heal for dangerous Snapping Bites, or can be spread around the room to help top people off after quake stomp.

-He's ~170 haste over the 3043 rejuv breakpoint. The haste/int gem in his helm should be replaced by one with mastery. Mastery/spirit, mastery/int, or pure mastery depending on his preference; the extra haste is wasteful.

-Hydra trinket is not very good. If he has the trinket from Tsulong, he should be using that in its stead. If not, he should be using the LFR lei shen trinket that he got, unless he REALLY needs the spirit. You could also consider going back to ToES for it (your paladin would also benefit from it over his old VP trinket. I don't know if you could use it, since you logged out in PvP gear). Protectors + Tsulong should take no more than half an hour, and he would also benefit from boots from protectors.

-He needs to finish the previous step of his legendary questline. The weapon socket is nice, but it's important that he start working toward the meta gem, which is far more significant. (I'm a hypocrite in this regard, but it doesn't make it any less true)
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
11950
-His spike healing is relatively low, meaning he's probably not pre-blanketing the raid with rejuv before quake stomps go out.


I don't blanket the raid prior to stomp and no one is dying in my raid. So much for your theory.

-He should also be using swiftmend+wild growth immediately following stomps. SoTF is a clear winner over broccoli form on this fight imo. Especially because there's no shaman for him to symbiosis. SoTF means he can swiftmend > tranq and not have to worry much about his tranquility being interrupted by rockfall.


On normal it really doesn't matter. Your SotF might have 4 more ticks but those ticks mean diddly if someone is standing in rockfall. Not having Spirit Walker is still something one can get around and still get a tranq off. Plus it's not so much rockfall as it is turtles that cause interruption.

-He's ~170 haste over the 3043 rejuv breakpoint. The haste/int gem in his helm should be replaced by one with mastery. Mastery/spirit, mastery/int, or pure mastery depending on his preference; the extra haste is wasteful.


You're 3619 over that so you should really take your own advice don't you think?

-He needs to finish the previous step of his legendary questline. The weapon socket is nice, but it's important that he start working toward the meta gem, which is far more significant. (I'm a hypocrite in this regard, but it doesn't make it any less true)


It won't make one bit of difference on tortos. One gem for me is almost 1% harmony but I don't think he'll be stacking mastery so the value here is pretty small although in general one should get it when possible but more so for the new meta that would help.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13505
Frozen is just above next RJ BP for SOTF (6659), and ~1170 over the closest WG SOTF BP. It is also at the WG BP for non-SOTF WG (6652). It is a notable BP IMO (6659) and gives lots of flexibility, giving an extra tick to non-SOTF WGs, four extra ticks for SOTF rejuvs, and seven extra ticks for SOTF WGs; definitely an option for Druids. While it is arguably a good/bad choice, he is not technically doing anything incorrect.

As for the other suggestions, Swiftmend is tough on this fight, using it immediately will save someone low (and it should be used in this fashion), but efflo is pretty much useless until the melee re-stack and the second swiftmend can be popped following the stomp.

As for pre-hotting, that is always an option for burst mechanics, but a personal one depending on regen.

The legendary meta and weapon socket are nice, but not everyone is as diligent with the quests or lucky with secret drops, and overall this is not what is holding him back, I agree.
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/27/2013 2:05 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
11950
Frozen is just above next RJ BP for SOTF (6659), and ~1170 over the closest WG SOTF BP. It is also at the WG BP for non-SOTF WG (6652). It is a notable BP IMO (6659) and gives lots of flexibility, giving an extra tick to non-SOTF WGs, four extra ticks for SOTF rejuvs, and seven extra ticks for SOTF WGs; definitely an option for Druids. While it is arguably a good/bad choice, he is not technically doing anything incorrect.


What are you talking about? 6659 has nothing - nothing to do with SotF. You get extra ticks from sotf with 3049 plus all your stats not wasted on WG/SM for one tick. Because thats what 6659 gives you without Sotf - one tick on Wg-Sm/Efflor and NOT rejuv. For that extra tick for Wg-SM with Sotf You need 5437 which is technically viable depending on one's gear because you can take from spirit/crit without such a drastic loss to mastery/harmony. But in general going for 6652 is silly for us at this point.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13505
Frozen is just above next RJ BP for SOTF (6659), and ~1170 over the closest WG SOTF BP. It is also at the WG BP for non-SOTF WG (6652). It is a notable BP IMO (6659) and gives lots of flexibility, giving an extra tick to non-SOTF WGs, four extra ticks for SOTF rejuvs, and seven extra ticks for SOTF WGs; definitely an option for Druids. While it is arguably a good/bad choice, he is not technically doing anything incorrect.


What are you talking about? 6659 has nothing - nothing to do with SotF. You get extra ticks from sotf with 3049 plus all your stats not wasted on WG/SM for one tick. Because thats what 6659 gives you without Sotf - one tick on Wg-Sm/Efflor and NOT rejuv. For that extra tick for Wg-SM with Sotf You need 5437 which is technically viable depending on one's gear because you can take from spirit/crit without such a drastic loss to mastery/harmony. But in general going for 6652 is silly for us at this point.


1 - It is 3043 and not 3049.

2 - 3043 has nothing to do with WG, it is the BP for an additional tick of Rejuvenation while only under the 5% raid haste buff. To get 8 ticks of WG you only need 860 haste raid buffed.

3 - You only need 2109 haste to get 14 ticks of WG while using SOTF, the only reason people are at 3043 is for the extra tick of rejuv while NOT using SOTF. As you noted, the next WG BP in SOTF is 5437.

4 - 6659 does in fact give you 9 ticks for your rejuv when used with SOTF, as opposed to 3043-6658 haste only giving 8.

5 - It is actually 6652 (not 6659) that gives you 9 ticks of WG outside of SOTF. But, it makes sense to pick up that extra 7 haste to be able to use SOTF on rejuv occasionally, as using it on tanks worthwhile when raid healing is low or there is a need for extra tank healing.

6 - IMO 5437 is actually the weaker BP, as for only 1222 more haste you can have the flexibility to use WG out of SOTF without wasting that haste, while also being able to use it in SOTF for either a WG or RJ gain as needed. Very few fights actually fit T14+SOTF+WG on CD without it being a complete waste in both timing and mana.

7 - #6 becomes more important as you break T14. Using WG with SOTF on CD is not longer even possible if you wanted to.

lastly, I clearly said it arguably a good/bad choice, but he is not "over" anything, as you stated, and is at a viable BP.
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/27/2013 4:27 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
11950
1 - It is 3043 and not 3049.


A mistype of course I know what the break-point is but nice try being cute. A quick search is easy to do

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8569859847#2

2 - 3043 has nothing to do with WG, it is the BP for an additional tick of Rejuvenation while only under the 5% raid haste buff. To get 8 ticks of WG you only need 860 haste raid buffed.


Actually since you're trying really hard to be technically superior, 3043 doesn't have anything whatsoever to so with rejuvenation. That point is strictly for Tranquility. Considering that 3043 is 4 more points than 3039 (rejuv+raid buff )of course we go for it. So yes in fact 3043 does have a lot to do with WG, Rejuv and Tranq because that's the only point we aim for.

3 - You only need 2109 haste to get 14 ticks of WG while using SOTF, the only reason people are at 3043 is for the extra tick of rejuv while NOT using SOTF. As you noted, the next WG BP in SOTF is 5437.


I know of one guy who actually argued about only doing 2109 with SotF but I did end up convincing him of that folly. Discussion of numbers that have absolutely no bearing upon our class is fruitless and doesn't win you any brownie-points. 2109 is covered by 3043 so it's mute to even bring it because no one uses that number for anything by a haste-break table.

4 - 6659 does in fact give you 9 ticks for your rejuv when used with SOTF, as opposed to 3043-6658 haste only giving 8.


Our spells are so godly weak even with my 30% mastery raiding with Paladins and Dpriests to go for 6659 is folly. One tick of anything is worthless when you give your arm and leg to reach it.

So with all that fancy typing all one really needed to say was '3043 is the only point presently Rdruids aim for' because that is in fact the case...
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13505
Actually we are approaching that next BP quicker than you think, and I am not surprised some already are testing it.

I am only at 528 ilvl, and can not even ditch enough haste to get to 3043 currently, and it will only get worse. Soon my trade of haste for mastery will actually start becoming crit if I want to stay at 3043, and the decision will be much more nuanced since I will in fact want to drop crit for the next BP if it becomes to high.

5.3 is coming, gear upgrades are coming.

When I am above 540, rocking http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=98149, going for the next BP is certain. And that may only be a month or two away....

So all that "fancy typing" is much more important than you might realize.
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/28/2013 1:12 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
I swooned at "only 528 ilvl". F'ing 25mans.
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
11950
Even if you reach 540 item level your spells will remain relatively weak compared to Paladins and Priests. Adding an extra tick won't do much of anything in that regard.

We don't scale worth a damn and as long as there are insane absorbs and smart heals eating our hots we'll forever remain mediocre even more so in your arena of 25 mans.

Sure it's just my opinion.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
11345
I'm well aware that the breakpoint I am geared for isn't mathematically ideal, and that the value of those points of haste put into mastery instead make up a larger percent increase in healing than the increase to swiftmend, un-hasted wg, and sotf wg even in an ideal scenario for those abilities. I'm geared to this haste because I much prefer the feel of play compared to at 3043. I've never told anybody that they SHOULD gear for this amount of haste. It's a personal choice, despite being aware of math. It is, however, not as much of a waste of stats as you [Moophious] seem to be indicating.

And, well, nobody I've healed for has complained about my healing (since Wrath, anyway, and I didn't even know what a breakpoint WAS then), so I've been allowed to make my own decisions in that regard. If I were in a healing setup where I felt comfortable with being at a lower level of haste, I would consider going back to 3043.

Now, back to the original topic...

I don't blanket the raid prior to stomp and no one is dying in my raid. So much for your theory.

I didn't say it was necessary to keep people alive (In fact, I acknowledged that the resto druid wasn't at fault for their wipes). It would, however, improve the druid's output.

04/27/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Moophious
Not having Spirit Walker is still something one can get around and still get a tranq off. Plus it's not so much rockfall as it is turtles that cause interruption.

It can be doable, yes, but that doesn't address my statement that SoTF is better than Incarnation for the fight. I argue that SoTF is better than Incarnation for Tortos, in no small part because SoTF Tranq is more reliably castable without being interrupted. Since he has no access to Spiritwalker's, this is particularly relevant.

04/27/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Moophious
It won't make one bit of difference on tortos. One gem for me is almost 1% harmony but I don't think he'll be stacking mastery so the value here is pretty small although in general one should get it when possible but more so for the new meta that would help.

I never said that it would help for that fight, but it IS something that he should look into doing if he wants to maximize his healing in general. I myself actually took the time yesterday to farm rep, do Change of Command, and Kotmogu/Silvershard Mines to get my EotBP and get on the next step of the legendary quest.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
14715
Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't have wild growth have some issues with spending to 6 targets if they're at 100% hp with the shield buff?
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13505
Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't have wild growth have some issues with spending to 6 targets if they're at 100% hp with the shield buff?


You are correct (on heroic), for that reason I specced incarnation on that fight even when I had 4pc T14.

WG only is effective for short periods following stomp.
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/28/2013 9:56 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
11950
04/28/2013 05:16 AMPosted by Frozenorange
I'm geared to this haste because I much prefer the feel of play compared to at 3043.


You like the feel of having really weak hots and heals? Well great.

It's true that it's your choice but please don't try and say because you like the feel of it that it isn't a complete waste of harmony because no matter how much wishful thinking you have it is. Math doesn't lie although feelings can. There is a reason that 99.9% of all raiding druids don't go for it. Now you may feel that you're onto something everyone else has never thought of and please don't claim here it is better without more than your personal feelings. Personal choice has nothing to do with facts.

04/28/2013 05:16 AMPosted by Frozenorange
It can be doable, yes, but that doesn't address my statement that SoTF is better than Incarnation for the fight.


I'm sorry what makes you an expert on this fight considering you've only killed it one time? I think you're letting those feelings affect your judgement. Making such a claim is meaningless and you have no proof whatsoever that it's superior for everyone. What if one doesn't have the 4pc t14? Does that play a part? Perhaps having the ability to spam RG while having LB rolling on your raid and instantly raising one's HP bar where a weak WG tick won't save anyone from a single rockfall is more valuable. Or that one's tranq is superior with Incarnation that with SOTF simply because a hasted tranq doesn't add anything to it's healing output and Incarnation really does.

04/28/2013 05:16 AMPosted by Frozenorange
I argue that SoTF is better than Incarnation for Tortos, in no small part because SoTF Tranq is more reliably castable without being interrupted.


Having it cast faster doesn't completely fix the issue of spinning turtles or rockfall interrupting you. Spirit Walker's Grace does in fact fix both of those issues. I can cast it without SOTF or SWG and still get it off. That's not to say that it always goes 100% but who cares. Tranq here is to make sure no one dies and consider you're casting after Stomp this means you only need enough healing to cover incidental damage after Stomp so even a partial tranq will suffice.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
11345
It's true that it's your choice but please don't try and say because you like the feel of it that it isn't a complete waste of harmony because no matter how much wishful thinking you have it is. Math doesn't lie although feelings can. There is a reason that 99.9% of all raiding druids don't go for it. Now you may feel that you're onto something everyone else has never thought of and please don't claim here it is better without more than your personal feelings. Personal choice has nothing to do with facts.


I'm uncomfortable with low haste because I don't trust my cohealer(s) in most of the raids I bring my druid to. If I didn't feel the need to use regrowth as frequently on tanks, then I'd probably be okay with regrowth and non-rejuv instants going from 1.23s to 1.33 cast/gcd and healing for 6.3% more instead. (I have 19.83% mastery raid buffed; gaining 3619 mastery would put me at 27.35%. 127.35/119.83 ~ 1.0628).

An extra tick on swiftmend and wild growth are worth ~3% total healing. Lower GCD on non-rejuv instants and lower cast time come close to bridging the gap between that and the loss of mastery. Haste is a competitive stat, even if it's not ideal. If 6.3% weaker constitutes "really weak hots and heals", then I am guilty as charged.

Furthermore, I NEVER said it was better for myself, let alone anybody else. I NEVER recommended it for anybody else. You attacked my choice in stat priority. I defended it. It's competitive, even if it's not ideal. I've made the personal choice to ignore the small mathematical increase in healing for the sake of comfort.

04/28/2013 01:17 PMPosted by Moophious
Spirit Walker's Grace does in fact fix both of those issues.

In the context of OP's raid, there is no shaman (or at least, not in the logs that were posted). SWG is not an option for him. It is far more difficult to predict where turtles will spin and rockfalls will land for 7.1s (cast time of tranq with 3043 haste), whereas it is far more reasonable to avoid them for 4.2s (cast time with SoTF).

Incarnation may be more throughput, but SoTF is more reliable for learning the fight if there is no shaman for SWG. It may not, as you said, completely fix tranq being interrupted, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier.

04/28/2013 01:17 PMPosted by Moophious
I'm sorry what makes you an expert on this fight considering you've only killed it one time?

I have a feeling this is what it boils down to, though. Tonydanza and Cantbearyou both recommended SoTF before I did, and you didn't jump all over them. But a druid with an uncommon gearing choice? His opinion must not mean anything. Better try to make him look like an idiot.

So we're clear, I'm no longer a druid main (which makes me sad, because I prefer healing on it overall). I switched to my priest halfway through t14 because, well, we wanted to abuse SS on some fights and nobody else had a priest. We've had trouble keeping healers around for various reasons, but the most reliable cohealers I've had access to have been a Mistweaver and another rdruid. For what should be obvious reasons, I can't really go back to my druid fulltime now, but it's still the class that I have the most experience on and the most thorough understanding of.

I still pull my weight, too. Week 2, our rdruid was unavailable for h.jin'rokh progression. We decided that having a tranq for every other lightning storm was more valuable than having spirit shell for all of them, so I healed it on my druid in 493 ilvl. Logs here:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/jb5auajyf3q5l8a0/sum/healingDone/?s=114&e=340
It says it is a normal kill, but you can clearly see damage taken from lightning diffusion and ionization.

Sure, I only have one kill of Tortos on my druid. Fine, valid point. I can't make our alt raid most of the time, but I'm familiar enough with the fight from doing it on my priest (7 normal kills, 1 heroic kill) and LFR. I've also put in my share of wipes on my druid filling in for a friend's late-night guild.

I don't think I'm unqualified to offer some amount of advice to someone who's asking advice for their first kill. Given that a lot of what I said echoed what other people said, I don't think that it was out of line, either.
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
11950
I'm uncomfortable with low haste because I don't trust my cohealer(s) in most of the raids I bring my druid to. If I didn't feel the need to use regrowth as frequently on tanks, then I'd probably be okay with regrowth and non-rejuv instants going from 1.23s to 1.33 cast/gcd and healing for 6.3% more instead. (I have 19.83% mastery raid buffed; gaining 3619 mastery would put me at 27.35%. 127.35/119.83 ~ 1.0628).


That's fine if you value a faster RG but as you must know, casting too many Rgs out of OoC procs isn't a very efficient choice. Playing sub-optimally because your buddy healers aren't trust-worthy is not a good argument although I can sympathize.

An extra tick on swiftmend and wild growth are worth ~3% total healing. Lower GCD on non-rejuv instants and lower cast time come close to bridging the gap between that and the loss of mastery. Haste is a competitive stat, even if it's not ideal. If 6.3% weaker constitutes "really weak hots and heals", then I am guilty as charged.


What makes you think it's a 3% gain? Where did you come up with that figure?

- Did you factor the loss of stats to reach that point into that equation?
- Did you factor in the fact that SM-Efflor/WG don't always hit their maximum targets?
- That haste level doesn't effect casting your bread and butter spell - rejuvenation. Doesn't effect the cast of SM or WG either. All it does effect is HT, Nourish and ReGrowth - the first two most people don't bother casting. Having faster casts also increase one's required mana so I'm not sure how that's a positive attribute.

Truth be told all you gain is one extra tick on WG/SM/Efflor that doesn't even make up close to half of your total healing Vs boosting all of your spells all the time by a considerable amount. It's really really a big loss no matter how much you like the idea. You actually can gain +6.53% right now from harmony bonus. If you think loosing that much to boost WG/SM-Efflor then I don't know what else to tell you honestly.

Tonydanza and Cantbearyou both recommended SoTF before I did, and you didn't jump all over them. But a druid with an uncommon gearing choice? His opinion must not mean anything. Better try to make him look like an idiot.


I'm not trying to make you look bad I'm trying to help you reason. I might not always do it in the best manner but that's what I'm trying to do. At the end of the day it's your and your friends that raid and people on a forum have no part of that world.

SotF is really good with 4pc t14 but my point is not everyone has that or even the heroic versions. WG is pretty comparatively weak. Have you've looked at the amount of healing each tick does? Really take a look and tell me how superior WG is even with extra ticks. A rejuv is stronger - much stronger and wins even more so with more mastery. This isn't guesswork. You want to make your number one bread and butter spell stronger. And by doing that you also make WG and every other spell stronger.

The thing is if you're running SotF you don't even need 6652 - you only need 5437. If you can reach that point without loosing too mastery then go for it. You'll even gain more mastery doing so and keep your ticks.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
11345
The breakpoint is, loosely, a 10% increase to wg and swiftmend. Typically, those combine for ~30-40%% of my healing done. In some damage models, it is higher than that.

Losing gains to additional stats happens, regardless of whether it's haste or mastery, because there's a finite amount of healing to be done. Figuring out whether an extra tick is going to get off before someone tops off or dies, whether the larger heal or faster heal is more beneficial is very difficult to determine in practice. My '3%' only accounts for those factors as much as the empirical data it's based on.

The 'loss of stats', though, is nonexistent - I'm comparing the throughput gains of gaining 3619 haste vs gaining 3619 mastery. I have no idea where you got 6.53%. I gave you the values of mastery that I could be at raid buffed at my current haste and if i were to able to drop it to 3043 putting all of those points into mastery instead. It's an increase of 7.54 mastery, but because it's additive, it's a net gain of 6.3% potential throughput.

Haste still has an effect on the GCD of swiftmend, WG, and lifebloom. The only reason it doesn't lower the rejuv GCD is because that's already hard capped at 1s due to passive. I realize that the GCD gains are marginal because swiftmend and wg only make up for ~15-20% of our execute time, but they do exist. It also makes lifebloom tick 8% faster, which is, incidentally, more of a gain than mastery would provide.

In any case, I don't see how choosing to gear for my situation and defending it as precisely that is in any way NOT a good argument. Isn't that the best argument there is? I never said it was the best, nor did I ever say that anybody else should do it. I said it's what works for me. And I think you missed the point that the people I'm healing with AREN'T my 'buddy healers'. My druid isn't healing for our main raid, or even our alt raid most of the time, and this is precisely why I don't trust them.

There's no point in trying to show me the error of my ways. I never solicited advice for myself (and there are a number of people who can attest to the fact that I am willing to do so, if I feel I need it - it was not long ago that I was asking people for advice on playing Hpriest.) I've stated multiple times that my choice is not mathematically optimal, and have never told anyone else to follow in my footsteps. I have only said that it is close. I've presented my evidence for that, and am being told in response that it is not optimal, which I've already acknowledged.

The only thing that's come of this that may have ANY bearing on my future decisions is realizing that gains to rejuv through mastery aren't entirely lost due to the new mushroom mechanic, which wasn't in place when I made my gearing decisions.

More importantly, though, none of this has any bearing on whether or not the advice I gave the original poster had any merit. This is not the place for a discussion on whether or not it is worth it (or viable) to aim for the 6652 haste breakpoint. If you want to make a thread on the druid forums, I'd be happy to post there. You would find that my advice for other druids would be that the 3043 haste breakpoint is theoretically the best value of haste to go for. An unattainable value of mastery is required before the amount of stat points required to reach the 6652 breakpoint is mathematically best invested in doing so. That said, I do not consider it an nonviable gearing strategy, and you still have a long way to go to prove that it isn't viable.

If you wish to discuss this more, we can do so in a thread where it is not off-topic, or you may find me in-game to converse with me there.
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
11950
The breakpoint is, loosely, a 10% increase to wg and swiftmend. Typically, those combine for ~30-40%% of my healing done. In some damage models, it is higher than that.


You're confusing SM's direct heal with Efflor in total healing. There is a claim the WG sees rougly a 7% increase with one tick. That's what we're talking about and that percentage has nothing to do with how much that tick is ticking for.

The 'loss of stats', though, is nonexistent - I'm comparing the throughput gains of gaining 3619 haste vs gaining 3619 mastery. I have no idea where you got 6.53%.


Wrong again. You gain one tick - that's it. One tick and a loss of strength for that tick and all other healing across the board.

That 6.53% is what I get when I reforge you back to 3043 and change your gems/chants out. It's a real number and means you would gain a flat 6.53% increase to all spells.

04/28/2013 11:38 PMPosted by Frozenorange
There's no point in trying to show me the error of my ways.


I can see that but for the sake of some who might be reading this it's best to correct the misinformation.

You would find that my advice for other druids would be that the 3043 haste breakpoint is theoretically the best value of haste to go for. An unattainable value of mastery is required before the amount of stat points required to reach the 6652 breakpoint is mathematically best invested in doing so. That said, I do not consider it an nonviable gearing strategy, and you still have a long way to go to prove that it isn't viable.


I don't have to prove what's already been proven. All one needs to do is visit Rdruid sites and the druid forums to confirm that.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13505
Moophius, either you are not reading him correctly or just purposely trying to be obstinate...

Regardless, if you really want to make a strong point, take that 6.53% and then actually off-set it by the loss he will have in WG/Efflo/LB by dropping haste. Because, like he said, there is a cost/benefit to doing so.

Also, have you even used Treecalcs? Did you know that the most current builds of TC actually shows his build to be an HPS increase? Go have fun with it yourself:

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t116144-resto_treecalcs/p12/

The reason people stick with 3043 is because in practice it is difficult to match a simulator, and regardless, generally this tier fits rejuv spam far better even if you could match it. Also, having stronger direct heals fits more roles and triage better. These are all reasons I am at 3043, even though I understand that 6652 could be theoretically higher HPS given the right scenario.

Also, some food for thought looking forward, since I have already said that gearing will start driving Druids to the 6652 BP. But another factor is RPPM enchants. as they are effected by Haste. As we become stacked with them, the value of haste goes up significantly.

I am currently using 3, but soon plan to have 4. The legendary meta, Jade spirit, Horridons and the Lightning Imbued Chalice. This is what I think will drive me personally to make the jump up to the next BP sooner than later. I am seeing 2-5% increases in up-times when looking at those RPPM factors, and across 4 sources of buffs/heals, that is not insignificant.
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/29/2013 7:51 AM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]