Tortos healing, rdruid help? Have logs.

100 Troll Druid
12505
Moophius, either you are not reading him correctly or just purposely trying to be obstinate...


No I read him just fine - he's hopelessly wrong.

Regardless, if you really want to make a strong point, take that 6.53% and then actually off-set it by the loss he will have in WG/Efflo/LB by dropping haste. Because, like he said, there is a cost/benefit to doing so.


That's just silly. I've already proven beyond all doubt that the increase to either WG-Efflor is minuscule compared to an overall increase of over 6% to all spells. LB has no bearing on this whatsoever.

Also, have you even used Treecalcs? Did you know that the most current builds of TC actually shows his build to be an HPS increase? Go have fun with it yourself:


I don't need a theory-crafting tool made by someone who hasn't raided in the last few years to tell me that dropping 6% mastery for one one tick of WG/Efflor is wrong.

Now if you have so much haste that you can't get rid of it then that might be a another story but alas that isn't the case even for you. If that tool has such an impact I'm wondering why you remain at 3043?

The reason people stick with 3043 is because in practice it is difficult to match a simulator, and regardless, generally this tier fits rejuv spam far better even if you could match it. Also, having stronger direct heals fits more roles and triage better. These are all reasons I am at 3043, even though I understand that 6652 could be theoretically higher HPS given the right scenario.


No - it's because loosing all those stats for ONE TICK of anything isn't worth it.

Also, some food for thought looking forward, since I have already said that gearing will start driving Druids to the 6652 BP. But another factor is RPPM enchants. as they are effected by Haste. As we become stacked with them, the value of haste goes up significantly.


Arguing what the future will bring is nice but has little bearing on the present and besides it won't change the fact that WG/SM-Efflor's extra 'tick' amount to a much smaller percentage than Harmony currently provides and I see no change coming in that regard.
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Druid
11535
What I find interesting about the discussion is twofold. One.... it has become the thread I was looking for and two, The poor OP must be wondering what he/she started here lol....

First of all OP, IMO this is not the greatest Resto druid fight ever to begin with. What has already been said is mostly accurate. This fight is all about Pally and Priests really.... Don't get me wrong, a resto can put out good numbers here too, but the way the damage works in this fight absorption is going to be beneficial. If your resto is struggling at all, it's probably more to do with absorption "sniping" than healing. the biggest points in this fight I have found for us druids to tackle are after the stomp and the bat tanking phase. Both situations where we tend to be very helpful throughout the fight, along with the regular incoming damage from rockfall and such.

As for the druid comments for the haste caps.... I am at the second cap. Have been for some time. It works great for some fights, and is completely horrible in others. I too, am more along the lines of mastery and have been contemplating switching back since SotF was jacked to 75% up from 50%, seems silly to have the second haste cap if we are going to abandon incarnation for the most part.

And.... so it seems. Looks like Incarnation has become Moonkin's favorite toy. I'm beginning to think someone ticked off the blizz devs when it came to resto....
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
20185
This is how I heal tortos.

SM on the melee on CD...WG after I SM for SoTF.

Blanket rejuv on people right before a stomp.

Take spiritwalker's grace from a Shaman so I can tranq and move during a stomp.

Sometimes I Iron Bark the bat tank.

Keep LB up on bat tank.

Win.

But I 2 heal it either with a Hpally or a Disc Priest.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13890
Sure it's just my opinion.

Moophius, this is the most accurate thing you have said in this conversation.

You have literally not given one shred of evidence, or made one single reference to a source for your claims, yet, this is what we are hearing from you:

That's just silly. I've already proven beyond all doubt that the increase to either WG-Efflor is minuscule compared to an overall increase of over 6% to all spells. LB has no bearing on this whatsoever.


You have proven nothing, this is one of the most absurd statements in this thread. Maybe that is how your mind works, I guess you think just saying it makes it true. NO, it doesn't. You have given no sources, NOTHING. Only blanket generalizations and math my 5 year old niece could do.

Even at the most basic level you have not even considered the costs that have been pointed out to you, not only from the loss to efflo/WG, but also to RPPM, casting speed, the interaction of talents, T15... etc..

You just keep repeating the same elementary number, with some of the least comprehensive analysis I have ever seen (for someone who pretends to be an authority on a subject).

I don't have to prove what's already been proven. All one needs to do is visit Rdruid sites and the druid forums to confirm that.


So this is your “proof”….

So you are nothing more than a parrot, making general assertions about "sites" you visited (incorrectly at that), of which not even one has been named. Please enlighten us on all these Druids sites which support you? Because, to be honest, the Resto Druid sites out there right now are pretty poorly maintained. And of the ones that do exist, almost all take from the EJ thread and the Hamlet/Treecalcs theorycrafting you dismiss.

So please, you have proven nothing, nor have you even referenced a reliable source. Go ahead and do so, or please stop it with these silly claims of “proof”, which are neither from you, nor have they once been provided in this thread.

That 6.53% is what I get when I reforge you back to 3043 and change your gems/chants out. It's a real number and means you would gain a flat 6.53% increase to all spells..

I don't need a theory-crafting tool made by someone who hasn't raided in the last few years to tell me that dropping 6% mastery for one one tick of WG/Efflor is wrong.


Now your napkin math is better than Hamlet’s Treecalcs… which has been around for years and relied upon by many Druids? No simulator is perfect, but it has proven to be a very useful tool over the years. Even Hamlet would not profess it is perfect, and that is the reason it is constantly discussed and tweaked within the thread there. So please, I invite you to show me where you think it is in error, without directly attacking someone who is far far brighter than yourself, and has invested far more time and thought into this subject.

And while he may not actively raid anymore, he has plenty of people working with him that do. Also, I would argue that his challenge mode clearance is more significant than anything you have achieved recently in this game. You are not exactly god’s gift to WoW, Moophius…

Why should anyone consider you credible? Is that one HM you killed this teir supposed to carry weight? Why is your word worth its salt?? Wait it is not even yours... lol... just some generalizations taken from other people's sites.. Yeh.. I think not.

No - it's because loosing all those stats for ONE TICK of anything isn't worth it.

Adding an extra tick won't do much of anything in that regard.

Really take a look and tell me how superior WG is even with extra ticks. A rejuv is stronger - much stronger and wins even more so with more mastery. This isn't guesswork.

Wrong again. You gain one tick - that's it. One tick and a loss of strength for that tick and all other healing across the board. .


This is the depth of your argument.... and oh, how shallow it is.

All you keep repeating is “one tick, blah blah blah”, and even then, you can’t even get THAT right. First, it it is for two separate heals, WG and Efflo. You also ignore the increase to HPS and tank healing via LB and direct heals. You ignore the increase to WG from Incarnation at 6652 with more targets. You ignore the increase to efflo from T15. And then you also disregarded the RPPM impacts I noted to you.

Your argument is so pathetically vapid, lacking in any real “proof” or comprehensive examination, with only the most basic calculations and reasoning, how one can possibly take you seriously…

Sure it's just my opinion.


And that is all it is… A pretty obstinate and ignorant one at that.

While I think most Druids should not go for the next BP currently, it is far from being "bad" to do so; it is a valid option depending on gear/fights or play-style. Going around and attacking people via armory for it, is just plain stupid.
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/29/2013 9:38 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
12505
All you keep repeating is “one tick, blah blah blah”, and even then, you can’t even get THAT right. First, it it is for two separate heals, WG and Efflo. You also ignore the increase to HPS and tank healing via LB and direct heals. You ignore the increase to WG from Incarnation at 6652 with more targets. You ignore the increase to efflo from T15. And then you also disregarded the RPPM impacts I noted to you.


I tried to read the rest of your jabber but alas you spend way to much time with ad-hominem instead of proving your case other than what treecals simulated.

The 'fact' is going for anything beyond 3043 is wrong. It's a known fact like the earth is round. I don't need to prove it because it's beyond dispute. If anyone is ignoring this plain and simple fact is you. Ironically you yourself remain at 3043. Every druid who raids in top guilds stays at 3043 yet you throw Hamlet's name as if he's the gold standard by which the world of Rdruids should bow. I respect him but his tool is not a perfect mirror of the virtual world.

As you must know, Hamlet doesn't tell people to go beyond 3043 either regardless of what the sim might imply - which by the way isn't the world of dynamic raiding.

When I keep saying it's one tick I'm correct. LB means nothing. WG is the only thing worth talking about as Efflor is by and large not even half WG's healing on a typical stacking fight and much less spread out.

So in reality you have this one extra tick and if you think all that fancy banter will change this fact - that giving up so much harmony bonus to boost such a spell (s) then you already lost the battle.

I win
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
12505
Maybe that is how your mind works


Only blanket generalizations and math my 5 year old niece could do


04/29/2013 09:20 PMPosted by Fangthorn
with some of the least comprehensive analysis I have ever seen


So you are nothing more than a parrot


without directly attacking someone who is far far brighter than yourself


Also, I would argue that his challenge mode clearance is more significant than anything you have achieved recently in this game. You are not exactly god’s gift to WoW, Moophius…


04/29/2013 09:20 PMPosted by Fangthorn
Why should anyone consider you credible? Is that one HM you killed this teir supposed to carry weight? Why is your word worth its salt?? Wait it is not even yours... lol...


and oh, how shallow it is.


Your argument is so pathetically vapid


with only the most basic calculations and reasoning, how one can possibly take you seriously


A pretty obstinate and ignorant one at that.


I just want to highlight some of your attacks upon me in this one post.

No agreeing with someone is one thing, not liking their arguments or style of writing another. But out right attacks upon one's person will not be tolerated by you on this forum.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13890
I actually appreciate you highlighting them, as I very much intended all of them, and they again describe your previous post perfectly.
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/30/2013 8:01 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Monk
11275
/popcorn

http://i.imgur.com/Vr40T.gif

just want to highlight some of your attacks upon me in this one post.


He's ~170 haste over the 3043 rejuv breakpoint. The haste/int gem in his helm should be replaced by one with mastery. Mastery/spirit, mastery/int, or pure mastery depending on his preference; the extra haste is wasteful.


Moophius, I just wanted to point out that you should take your own advice, since frozen advocated the 3043 haste break point originally. His personal playstyle is just that and personal attacks are petty. They are especially petty when you pulled it from his armory when he never gave bad advice...
Edited by Bloöm on 4/30/2013 8:52 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13890
Cont..

04/29/2013 01:16 PMPosted by Moophious
No I read him just fine - he's hopelessly wrong.


The funny part is you accuse me of "attacking" you, yet you are the one who started this conversation with attacks to Frozen via his armory for no real reason. He never even mentioned the higher BP in this thread, and actually recommended that the OP go to 3043. You are the one who felt the need to dig into his armory (which is kind of weird to be honest), derail this thread, and start attacking him.

And since you seem to have some serious lack of focus/comprehension, I have said multiple times that for most Druids being at 3043 is advisable (Frozen actually said the same thing to the OP). BUT I have said that the next break-point is not a complete waste and that many factors may play into someone choosing to move to it currently, or in the future. Obviously I personally feel that 3043 is the best for me at the moment, I am at that, and may be for awhile. What I don’t do is go around trying to pick apart peoples armories and attack them for what my personal preference is. I am very interested in the next BP, and have switched to it for short periods and tested gear setups for the future. I like that people are testing it out. My last rough calculations put it at only 2% less healing overall for myself (based on logs, not theoretical simulators), and the gap keeps closing.

But attacking armories is just lame, especially when someone never even brought up the topic you harp on.

Like you for instance…. I never even brought up the fact you are using two Fractured Serpent Eyes, which is just plain dumb. When at a ratio of 1.5 : 1, intellect is easily superior to mastery. This is one of the more basic concepts for Druids, and you failed at that... In fact your whole gemming/reforging setup is quite contrary to what most “Top Druids” use (which you seem to think is so important!). I did not go there before because experimenting is good to an extent, especially when there is data to support it. Some things are obviously wrong.... like being in between BPs (which was not the case here), or say using Fractured Serpent Eyes is wrong, but what Frozen was doing was not.

All I am doing is keeping an open mind, unlike you, because right now the Druid theorycrafting is very poor at best (which makes your confidence in the guides out there even more comical). You are perfect example.
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/30/2013 9:43 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
8860
To butt in just a little: I am curious about how haste affects RPPM trinkets. It's been difficult for me to compare because 1) fight durations need to be normalized and 2) I'm too lazy to really compare multiple logs. Plus, I don't really know of any other druids that run the 6652 breakpoint besides myself.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13890
Here are some posts to read and toys to play with:

http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/2012/10/16/theorycraft-101-how-to-compute-uptime-of-a-proc-based-buff/

http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/2013/04/12/theorycraft-201-advanced-rppm/

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjJvhQym4TfNdEFLZ0t3ajlaMEJvY0dISklTTWp5b0E#gid=0

But more basically it is (to calculate up-time):

PPM * D * H / 60

PPM is the buff’s built-in PPM constant.
H is your haste factor (1 + your average haste %)
D is the duration of a buff

There are some more advanced calculations, using a factor for time since last proc etc., but the above works fairly well.

And also remember that other haste sources effect it, so you see much higher values in logs due to Heroism (so shorter fights increase it even more) and other buffs etc.

But take a trinket like Horridons, moving to the next BP for WG pushes it from about 18% up-time to 20% (so a 10% increase) from just your un-buffed haste alone.
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/30/2013 9:48 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
8860
Awesome, thanks! I'll have to take a look.
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
12505
04/30/2013 08:50 AMPosted by Fangthorn
The funny part is you accuse me of "attacking" you, yet you are the one who started this conversation with attacks to Frozen via his armory for no real reason.


Okay big boy let's see my attack

-He's ~170 haste over the 3043 rejuv breakpoint. The haste/int gem in his helm should be replaced by one with mastery. Mastery/spirit, mastery/int, or pure mastery depending on his preference; the extra haste is wasteful.

You're 3619 over that so you should really take your own advice don't you think?


That's why you have your panties in a twist? While it's true that he didn't mention his haste BP I just found it odd that he was at that level and giving advice. It might not have been the nicest thing but it certainly wasn't name calling and bullying that you seem to be fond of here.

And since you seem to have some serious lack of focus/comprehension, I have said multiple times that for most Druids being at 3043 is advisable (Frozen actually said the same thing to the OP). BUT I have said that the next break-point is not a complete waste and that many factors may play into someone choosing to move to it currently, or in the future


Yes and at the same time arguing that 6652 is superior in treecalcs. I've stated that one doesn't need 6652 if they simply run SotF - they could hit 5437 much easier while maintaining more stats. Yet you've spent a lot of effort proving only that you personally nor do you believe anyone should be going for it but it's still superior? What exactly are you saying here? Is it that you just don't like that fact that I've stated that 3043 is better by default?

But attacking armories is just lame, especially when someone never even brought up the topic you harp on.


How about attacking one's progress? Does you consider that a valid argument?

04/29/2013 09:20 PMPosted by Fangthorn
Why should anyone consider you credible? Is that one HM you killed this teir supposed to carry weight?


You seem to be relying a lot upon personal attacks which is certainly not a valid form of argumentation but you'll need to look beyond mathematics for that wisdom. Are you mad bro?

Like you for instance…. I never even brought up the fact you are using two Fractured Serpent Eyes, which is just plain dumb. When at a ratio of 1.5 : 1, intellect is easily superior to mastery


So let me get this straight. Let's take our prismatic belt socket and someone who isn't a Jewell crafter. Since 320 INT is clearly superior for everyone compared to 320 mastery even more so since we're talking 1:1 and not 1:5, you'd expect to see this and not having it would mean what you're implying towards me stated so intelligently in this quote -

04/30/2013 08:50 AMPosted by Fangthorn
This is one of the more basic concepts for Druids, and you failed at that... In fact your whole gemming/reforging setup is quite contrary to what most “Top Druids” use (which you seem to think is so important!).


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Illidan/Sephinia/advanced

I suppose he's just not as smart as you are eh? Look at those yellow slots and a prismatic with a 320 Matery gem over 320 Int. What a mess. I wonder if this has anything to do with SP and mastery at certain levels? Naw that couldn't be right since INT is always superior - there are no grey areas with serpent eyes.

I honestly believe you're just bitter. You simply don't like someone making claims (even if that's what everyone is doing) because in the near or distant futre things can change to make it viable. Funny thing is you stated the OP was in fact not wrong

It is a notable BP IMO (6659) and gives lots of flexibility, giving an extra tick to non-SOTF WGs, four extra ticks for SOTF rejuvs, and seven extra ticks for SOTF WGs; definitely an option for Druids. While it is arguably a good/bad choice, he is not technically doing anything incorrect.


No it's not arguably a good/bad choice, it's a wrong choice period and a basic knowledge of Rdruids that you fail comprehending (or is that only in theory pal?).
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
12505
/popcorn

http://i.imgur.com/Vr40T.gif

just want to highlight some of your attacks upon me in this one post.


He's ~170 haste over the 3043 rejuv breakpoint. The haste/int gem in his helm should be replaced by one with mastery. Mastery/spirit, mastery/int, or pure mastery depending on his preference; the extra haste is wasteful.


Moophius, I just wanted to point out that you should take your own advice, since frozen advocated the 3043 haste break point originally. His personal playstyle is just that and personal attacks are petty. They are especially petty when you pulled it from his armory when he never gave bad advice...


Yes it wasn't in the best taste I grant but that in no way excuses someone else to come along and be 10x worse while holding that around my neck. I told the OP to follow his own advice.

I can sympathize more if I'd called him stupid or attacked him personally i.e not his toon but his mind. So yes I attacked his armory while he indeed suggesting the correct BP. I'm guilty as charged so I'll be more diligent in the future.

But I won't put up with self-styled elitistjerks on a rampage spewing innuendos and ad-hominens.
Edited by Moophious on 4/30/2013 6:32 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13890
While it's true that he didn't mention his haste BP I just found it odd that he was at that level and giving advice. It might not have been the nicest thing but it certainly wasn't name calling and bullying that you seem to be fond of here.


Again, he never even mentioned the subject. Why you would even bother to go and pick apart random stuff in his armory is just odd and a DB move.

Yes and at the same time arguing that 6652 is superior in treecalcs. I've stated that one doesn't need 6652 if they simply run SotF - they could hit 5437 much easier while maintaining more stats. Yet you've spent a lot of effort proving only that you personally nor do you believe anyone should be going for it but it's still superior? What exactly are you saying here? Is it that you just don't like that fact that I've stated that 3043 is better by default?


I have clearly said it was a personal choice from evaluating my own logs. That is what any good player should do, talent and gearing choices are personal and based on roles, comp, raid format, and encounters.

What I don't do is presumptively run around looking at people's armories and calling them "wrong" and "bad", like you.

How about attacking one's progress? Does you consider that a valid argument?


In direct response to YOU making progression a necessary requirement to discuss or theory-craft on Druids...

I don't need a theory-crafting tool made by someone who hasn't raided in the last few years...


Yeh...

So let me get this straight. Let's take our prismatic belt socket and someone who isn't a Jewell crafter. Since 320 INT is clearly superior for everyone compared to 320 mastery even more so since we're talking 1:1 and not 1:5, you'd expect to see this and not having it would mean what you're implying towards me stated so intelligently in this quote -


Honestly, I read that three times and it still makes no sense to me. A prismatic socket has nothing to do with this.

You have a FRACTURED SERPENTS EYE instead of a BRILLIANT SERPENTS EYE, which means you are trading 320 intellect for 480 mastery, at a 1:1.5 ratio, which is a straight up loss.

This is why I can't take you seriously, you have not demonstrated that you can even handle the most simple concepts, much less the nuances of the haste BPs.

As for 320 intellect for 320 Mastery, I have no clue what you are talking about. That is never a comparison one would make. The only gem that has 320 intellect is a serpents eye, and you would never replace it for a FRACTURED SUN'S RADIANCE, which is a normal blue gem.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Illidan/Sephinia/advanced

I suppose he's just not as smart as you are eh? Look at those yellow slots and a prismatic with a 320 Matery gem over 320 Int. What a mess. I wonder if this has anything to do with SP and mastery at certain levels? Naw that couldn't be right since INT is always superior - there are no grey areas with serpent eyes.


Again, I have no clue what your are talking about?

He does not have Jewelcrafting as a profession, and he is trading intellect for mastery at a 2:1 ratio using standard blue gems. Mastery is indeed stronger at 2:1, but NOT at 1.5:1

Is that really that hard to follow?

I honestly believe you're just bitter. You simply don't like someone making claims (even if that's what everyone is doing) because in the near or distant futre things can change to make it viable. Funny thing is you stated the OP was in fact not wrong

No it's not arguably a good/bad choice, it's a wrong choice period and a basic knowledge of Rdruids that you fail comprehending (or is that only in theory pal?).


You still have not given one single source to back up your assertions.

Oh, maybe that's because every single guide says exactly what I have? Here, I will do the work for you since you obviously knew anything you posted would contradict you:

MMO Champion Guide:

In time, and gear permitting, we will likely aim for the second tick of Wild Growth attainable at 6652 haste.

If you are utilizing Soul of the Forest, you should aim for the 5730 when possible and eventually the 9543 (if possible in current gear) for additional Wild Growth ticks.


Blizzard Forums Guide:

Haste breakpoint chart for level 90: http://wtsheals.com/level-90-druid-healing-guide/

Highlighted Important breakpoints for level 90: 3043, 5320, and 6652.


EJ Guide:

In time, if your gear has a plethora of haste, you can aim for the second tick of Wild Growth attainable at 6652 haste...


ALL of these were posted in T14, when ilvl was well below 500. Every single one notes that there are many breakpoints, or specifically points to the 6652 BP, and that Druids should choose the one that best fits their gear, talents, and play-style.
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/30/2013 8:07 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
6550
I have a JC question fang. I assume you know what you are doing so I was wondering why you use your 320 int gems in your prismatic slots. I was under the impression that it was better to put them in red gem slots and just use prismatics for whatever you wanted. I'm probably mistaken so let me know ^_^.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13890
I have a JC question fang. I assume you know what you are doing so I was wondering why you use your 320 int gems in your prismatic slots. I was under the impression that it was better to put them in red gem slots and just use prismatics for whatever you wanted. I'm probably mistaken so let me know ^_^.


You are correct. Thanks for pointing that out, I would like to think I would have caught that before my raid week started, but who knows.

I had been swapping around lots of gear lately moving from T14 to T15, and had no red sockets except T14 pants previously, which did have the serpents eye.

Those eyes should be in any red socket, and the weapon and bracer prismatic will be sparkling river hearts (I like spirit).
Edited by Fangthorn on 4/30/2013 9:09 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
9035
You are correct. Thanks for pointing that out, I would like to think I would have caught that, but who knows.


This thread made me realize I was making the same mistake, lol. I had them in prismatics D:

Thanks Stratis! I feel dumb :P
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
13890
The dangers of trying to gem/reforge and equip new gear in-between kills! I just grabbed gems and did it on the fly.
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Druid
11535
And, Just as a side note.... what looks good on paper doesn't always work well in raids. I jumped in to comment on the thread because

A) there has been much discussion over haste breakpoints recently, and I don't have another druid to theorycraft with.
B) 25 man raiding is becoming harder to find comparisons to. Fangthorn was the first 25 man raider I have seen in a while playing a druid healer.
C) I've been at the second breakpoint since before the patch and before the other resto left, as the "tester" in preparation for this patch.

As in real life, math is great. and if you can always watch your rotation exactly, stand still, never move, and have 24 other people do the same then that works out perfectly. I've never seen that happen. BUT.... When there is an interesting conflict of interest, where there may be a question of two (or more) possible outcomes depending on spec and style, I like to try them. As moo has said, Fang at the time wasn't at the second breakpoint. I was. Fang was putting out approximately 10 K more in heals comparatively during tortos, but again, his healing group differed from mine, and so did his gear. My point is paper math is crap.... real world testing is in order.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]