Elemental Shaman vs Rogue

84 Troll Hunter
4020
What to do is the question.

A rogue starts attacking me. If I wait (and just throw in a Thunderstorm) I'll die before I get out of Stun/Silence lock. If I trinket (pop defensives or not) the rogue will just vanish and wait till defensives go off, then kill me for real.

Is there a way to prevent this from happening or should I just wait until I'm dead?

Edit: I am in full Malevolent, 1 Tyrannical. My resilience is 63.01% but any rogue can kill me during his opener.
Edited by Tayle on 4/27/2013 9:54 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
6065
When a rogue opens on me, I generally tend to use this macro:

#showtooltip
/cast Astral Shift
/cast Shamanistic Rage
/afk
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90 Orc Warrior
4130
When a rogue opens on me, I generally tend to use this macro:

#showtooltip
/cast Astral Shift
/cast Shamanistic Rage
/afk


ROFL
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90 Draenei Shaman
3605
When a rogue opens on me, I generally tend to use this macro:

#showtooltip
/cast Astral Shift
/cast Shamanistic Rage
/afk


Pretty much.
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90 Orc Shaman
14765
Best defense against a rogue:

Be resto
Beg a druid for symbiosis
Ghost wolf
Walk around in prowl, hoping not to be seen.
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90 Orc Shaman
6290
/afk
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90 Human Warlock
7985
#showtooltip
/cast Astral Shift
/cast Shamanistic Rage
/afk
Astral Shift is unusable while in Cheap Shot. Shamanistic Rage is unusable while Garroted. Rogues happen to be able to do both at once.

Shorten this macro down to /afk or /reroll
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90 Orc Shaman
10715
Be resto
Beg a druid for symbiosis
Ghost wolf
Walk around in prowl, hoping not to be seen.


prowl is awful. it barely counts as a stealth.
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90 Troll Shaman
11265
When a rogue opens on me, I generally tend to use this macro:

#showtooltip
/cast Astral Shift
/cast Shamanistic Rage
/afk
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THey will open with Garrote+Cheap shot. Use thunderstorm as soon as it ends if they pop any Offensive CDs (shadow blade)
This will force them to ShS or use cloak n dagger +shadow dance to close distance.
Take this global opt to drop healing stream totem and start casting hex.
The rogue will either Deadly throw/ShS kick/Cloak.
Regardless of what he does fake cast this. If he eats it then heal up
its important not to blow hex on Cloak. After he cloaks pop shamanistic rage and drop searing totem if your still not silenced. by this time you will be around half hp because he has only been on you for 8s and 4 of that is sham raged+ healing stream has been down.
Tstorm should be comming up soon, keep flame shock on the rogue and drop a earthbind root. He will use one of his many counters to get out (sprint out/vanish/blind for a reset attempt)
At this time you should be up to 70% from healing stream and sham rage will be down.
But a # of his CDs are down and you should stimm have Healing TIDE totem (3m CD)
Once he gets back on top of you throw out a cap totem and lvburst. Dont fake this lvburst because if he kicks just preceed to Eblast him. The cap totem will either A. Stun for 5s and force a trinket pop or B. Force him to take a move/auto attack out of his rotation to kill it. In this time you are biding time for healing stream totem again. Once you hit him with either lvburst/Eblast and gets hit/hits the Cap totem start casting hex. Juke the kick again, now you can hex. He will either blind/Gouge or take the hex depending on how good he is(his kick is down 15s CD). Once you juke use Elemntal mastery and spam into heals 30% cast speed. If he blinds trinket if its early after Cloak. If its been awile might as well sit it. No need to trinket a blind if his cloak is up again. At this moment most of his CDs are down, you are still above 50% with NG not proccd. And you have your 3m CD healing totem incase he starts to unload the pressure

At this point you can start to apply more pressure and offensive moves causing him to vanish and restart. That or he will distance himself from you and smokebomb with recup/Shuriken tossing you. You cap totem will be up by now, Drop a cap totem and searing totem and Project it inside his Smoke. Unless he is a pro he will not expect this. If he jumps on you from smoke bomb just thunderstorm him back in it, or away. At this point healing stream should be back up, as well as hex. Hex is gamechanging so attempt to force another kick juke. If he falls for it he is finished. If not just continue to stay as healthy as possible, keep searing and Healing stream totem down at all times. And force distance with tstorm/frost shock/root wile keeping Flame shock on him 24/7 for constant Lava surge procs. I beat most rogues this way, only extreemely adaptable rogues can beat me 1v1

In arena its 100% different story though.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
12760
Much appreciated, Bra. In some BGs with a guildie tonight, I heard someone who sounded like me uttering a strange, horrible language over Vent every time a rogue used my shaman to pad their k/d.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
12480
What to do is the question.

A rogue starts attacking me. If I wait (and just throw in a Thunderstorm) I'll die before I get out of Stun/Silence lock. If I trinket (pop defensives or not) the rogue will just vanish and wait till defensives go off, then kill me for real.

Is there a way to prevent this from happening or should I just wait until I'm dead?

Edit: I am in full Malevolent, 1 Tyrannical. My resilience is 63.01% but any rogue can kill me during his opener.


Rogue cant kill you in opener without cds. Pay attention to the buffs on rogue, if he pops shadow dance, trink and insta hex, he will trink and you will thunderstorm and capacitor totem, he will get you in a kidney but by then his damage has suffered. Save your defensive cds for when kidney is over, capacitor totem should stun him unless he destroys it, Kite him the best you can for heals if needed but wait for cloak to pop ascendance. Honestly tho, ele shamans never have been capable of beating a rogue so its just a counter class, dont sweat it.
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67 Orc Shaman
HAM
8410
Rogue cant kill you in opener without cds. Pay attention to the buffs on rogue, if he pops shadow dance, trink and insta hex, he will trink and you will thunderstorm and capacitor totem, he will get you in a kidney but by then his damage has suffered. Save your defensive cds for when kidney is over, capacitor totem should stun him unless he destroys it, Kite him the best you can for heals if needed but wait for cloak to pop ascendance. Honestly tho, ele shamans never have been capable of beating a rogue so its just a counter class, dont sweat it.


I read ^ this as :
Hey, I'm not that skilled of a player that learned my class and how to time my Defensive/Offensive CDs versus other classes, I just say give up before you even try !


Honestly any Class can beat just about any class in 1v1.(BM hunters possibly being the exception since their pets are ungodly stupidly powerful) If a good fire mage can beat an awesome unholy DK,....then i'll tell ya this it can be done with an ele shaman vs. a rogue. Brá gave an excellent example of a 1v1 scenario. Practice just makes perfect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV3dAn5ryQU


For the Counter Class getting trained (fire mage owning up an UnH DK, since they're notorius for destorying casters/heals)
Edited by Shoknload on 5/12/2013 1:34 AM PDT
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You can do anything you imagine. Even beat a Rogue in 1v1.
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90 Orc Shaman
10715
Honestly any Class can beat just about any class in 1v1.(BM hunters possibly being the exception since their pets are ungodly stupidly powerful) If a good fire mage can beat an awesome unholy DK,....then i'll tell ya this it can be done with an ele shaman vs. a rogue. Brá gave an excellent example of a 1v1 scenario. Practice just makes perfect.


this just isnt true.

two equally skilled players, rogue should almost always win. if the rogue screws up, he should still almost always win. if he screws up severely, he should almost always stilll win.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
11470
05/12/2013 12:58 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
Honestly any Class can beat just about any class in 1v1.(BM hunters possibly being the exception since their pets are ungodly stupidly powerful) If a good fire mage can beat an awesome unholy DK,....then i'll tell ya this it can be done with an ele shaman vs. a rogue. Brá gave an excellent example of a 1v1 scenario. Practice just makes perfect.


this just isnt true.

two equally skilled players, rogue should almost always win. if the rogue screws up, he should still almost always win. if he screws up severely, he should almost always stilll win.


Exactly, kid doesnt know what he is talking about.

05/12/2013 01:23 AMPosted by Shoknload
Rogue cant kill you in opener without cds. Pay attention to the buffs on rogue, if he pops shadow dance, trink and insta hex, he will trink and you will thunderstorm and capacitor totem, he will get you in a kidney but by then his damage has suffered. Save your defensive cds for when kidney is over, capacitor totem should stun him unless he destroys it, Kite him the best you can for heals if needed but wait for cloak to pop ascendance. Honestly tho, ele shamans never have been capable of beating a rogue so its just a counter class, dont sweat it.


I read ^ this as :
Hey, I'm not that skilled of a player that learned my class and how to time my Defensive/Offensive CDs versus other classes, I just say give up before you even try !


Honestly any Class can beat just about any class in 1v1.(BM hunters possibly being the exception since their pets are ungodly stupidly powerful) If a good fire mage can beat an awesome unholy DK,....then i'll tell ya this it can be done with an ele shaman vs. a rogue. Brá gave an excellent example of a 1v1 scenario. Practice just makes perfect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV3dAn5ryQU


For the Counter Class getting trained (fire mage owning up an UnH DK, since they're notorius for destorying casters/heals)


Read it however you want. Im trusting my opinion over yours. I dont even play an ele shaman, but I could, I can play any class in this game to its maximum but it wouldnt change the fact that rogues have always countered ele shamans. But you go ahead thinking you can beat a skilled rogue and have fun with that.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7015
Bra gave a few good tips however he kept saying thngs like "your X totem should be up by now" and "if X is off cooldown" etc but most of the time it wont last that long.

I'll clue you into a few key rogue abilities though which will make the difference and a couple obvious tips.

- Of course dont waste Ascendance if he has cloak up. Ideally you'd want cloak, vanish AND prep on CD first but thats just not gonna happen. So at least get cloak on CD and he'll probably vanish and re-open instantly before flameshock pops him out but at least you forced vanish.

- Which brings me to by next point. 99% of rogues have the talents subterfuge and cloak and dagger. Suberfuge allows them do stay in stealth and use stealth abilities for 3 seconds after breaking stealth.
Cloak and dagger makes their 3 biggest stealth moves (cheapshot, garrote and ambush) teleport them behind you from up to 30 yards away.
What does this mean? It means dont waste thunderstorm as soon as they open or while they are dancing (shadowdance allows the use of stealthed abilities while out of stealth) otherwise they will instantly port back to you anyway.

- Only other tip I have is to try using frozen power. This is personal preference but I just prefer it. Sure it may take up earth shocks but lets be honest, casting againist a rogue is very difficult and all your casts will be used on either Ele blast, lava burst or heals. You're never going to cast enough lightning bolts to get 7 stacks of lightning shield.
But like i said its up to you. I love all 3 talents on that tier. Even using windwalk with spirit walkers grace to run away healing can work great.

But if the current 5.3 patch notes go through then it wont be so tough. Shuriken toss is getting nerfed and cloak and dagger will no longer work with shadowdance in which case most rogues will go back to shadowstep.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
12480
Bra gave a few good tips however he kept saying thngs like "your X totem should be up by now" and "if X is off cooldown" etc but most of the time it wont last that long.

I'll clue you into a few key rogue abilities though which will make the difference and a couple obvious tips.

- Of course dont waste Ascendance if he has cloak up. Ideally you'd want cloak, vanish AND prep on CD first but thats just not gonna happen. So at least get cloak on CD and he'll probably vanish and re-open instantly before flameshock pops him out but at least you forced vanish.

- Which brings me to by next point. 99% of rogues have the talents subterfuge and cloak and dagger. Suberfuge allows them do stay in stealth and use stealth abilities for 3 seconds after breaking stealth.
Cloak and dagger makes their 3 biggest stealth moves (cheapshot, garrote and ambush) teleport them behind you from up to 30 yards away.
What does this mean? It means dont waste thunderstorm as soon as they open or while they are dancing (shadowdance allows the use of stealthed abilities while out of stealth) otherwise they will instantly port back to you anyway.

- Only other tip I have is to try using frozen power. This is personal preference but I just prefer it. Sure it may take up earth shocks but lets be honest, casting againist a rogue is very difficult and all your casts will be used on either Ele blast, lava burst or heals. You're never going to cast enough lightning bolts to get 7 stacks of lightning shield.
But like i said its up to you. I love all 3 talents on that tier. Even using windwalk with spirit walkers grace to run away healing can work great.

But if the current 5.3 patch notes go through then it wont be so tough. Shuriken toss is getting nerfed and cloak and dagger will no longer work with shadowdance in which case most rogues will go back to shadowstep.


Yes after 5.3 it will be a more even playing field but ele shamans still shouldnt beat a good rogue. They are the rock to your scissors.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7015
They're the rock to a lot of scissors and I'm by no means saying ele should beat them 1v1 if both players are of equal skills but at least for random BG's or whatever where maybe the rogue doesnt have all his CD's and you do, the above tips should help.
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90 Undead Priest
6435
this just isnt true.

two equally skilled players, rogue should almost always win. if the rogue screws up, he should still almost always win. if he screws up severely, he should almost always stilll win.


this is so untrue, people on priest forum say the same thing, "boohooo i can't beat a rogue" and i never lost to one on 1v1, never! not in BGs, not in RBGs, not in arena nor duels, of course i also have a 90 rogue poorly geared but i know how to use him i know the cooldowns, i know when to trinket or use my defensevie cooldowns.

a lot of people will say "it can't be done" those are the baddies, some poeple will say "learn to play ur class" they are mostly right, very few will say "learn to play the class u have trouble with" and there's great truth in this kind of statement
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