5.3 PVP power nerf and Ret.

100 Blood Elf Paladin
10220
Has anyone here tested out the general feel of Ret PVP since they dropped that big PVP power nerf last night? I was worried when I first read it, but after some thought, it might actually be a good thing for us.

Without getting heavily into the math, it was about a 30% nerf to the effective strength of PVP power for ALL classes.

*At 50% PVP power that's roughly 15%-16% less damage.
*At 50% PVP power that's roughly 3.5% less healing.

Sword of Light got buffed by 15%, which most estimates I've seen put it at about an 7%-9% overall damage increase.

So, from my understanding, well be doing a little less damage and slightly less healing. Since the nerf hit everyone, theoretically, we should more easily be able to heal through damage and still put out some pressure. I don't have the PTR downloaded so I'd love someone to share their experiences with it.
Edited by Andhar on 4/27/2013 6:51 PM PDT
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Has anyone here tested out the general feel of Ret PVP since they dropped that big PVP power nerf last night? I was worried when I first read it, but after some thought, it might actually be a good thing for us.

Without getting heavily into the math, it was about a 30% nerf to the effective strength of PVP power for ALL classes.

*At 50% PVP power that's roughly 15%-16% less damage.
*At 50% PVP power that's roughly 3.5% less healing.

Sword of Light got buffed by 15%, which most estimates I've seen put it at about an 7%-9% overall damage increase.

So, from my understanding, well be doing a little less damage and slightly less healing. Since the nerf hit everyone, theoretically, we should more easily be able to heal through damage and still put out some pressure. I don't have the PTR downloaded so I'd love someone to share their experiences with it.


What pvp power nerf are you referring to? Source please
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10220
From MMO-Champion

"Patch 5.3 PTR - Build 16896
There was a very minor PTR patch this afternoon, it only had two significant changes, one of them being the addition of the Block Chat Channel Invites option.

The other change was an increase in the amount of PvP Power Rating needed to get 1% PvP Power from 265 to 400."

Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/

Its the second news post, right under the one about the Blizzcon tickets. They've been raging about this nerf all day on the PTR forums. Example: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8728323127
OMG 15K SCORCH CRITZZZ!!!11
Edited by Andhar on 4/27/2013 9:08 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10220
Remember gear scaling will be introduced to rated PVP in 5.3. The recent PVP power change combined with the baseline resil change should hopefully translate to less burst and longer fights overall in rated play; a welcome change from the current design.


Which is why I think it might benefit us more so than others.

One of our strengths is being able to go on the defensive, being able to keep ourselves alive with WoG/FoL while kiting/LoS. Theoretically, with these changes, we should be able to survive a lot longer given everyone's sustained damage is about to take a nose dive. And, given our buff to Sword of Light, we won't be hit quite as hard as say, a mage or a rogue.
Edited by Andhar on 4/27/2013 9:33 PM PDT
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94 Draenei Paladin
15655
We might even see healers going oom!


Oh the glory!

:D
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10220
I wasn't so much worried about healers as the insane amount of damage some classes can put out in a tiny window.

It's rare, and it may have been the PVE trinkets pre-nerf causing it, but I've had a few rogues take me from 100% to dead in a single stun-locked opener.

If fights are now more designed to last longer, we'll have an edge. We do very well in battles of attrition.
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This change is going to make classes with higher amounts of CC more valuable. Otherwise, I don't really care. As long as ret has a shred of viability, I'll keep playing it.
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90 Human Paladin
3555
I just beat a friend in a duel, wings + HA up (I don't think Inq was) and crit healed them for 335K with under 40% PVP power. We'll be ok.

FYI there was a disc? priest who was 15-0 beating everyone - dunno what the buffs did to them, but they are strong. He fought me and is now 15-1.
Edited by Amuroraye on 4/28/2013 2:02 AM PDT
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After-duel heals will be stronger because battle fatigue will have been removed.

What're some heals with battle fatigue like? Assuming full Tyrannical.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10220
dunno what the buffs did to them, but they are strong. He fought me and is now 15-1.


You are....

unbreakable.

But yeah, what's the heals like during actual PVP combat? Are you noticing a lot less incoming damage? Harder to heal through, etc?

TELL US.
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90 Human Paladin
3555
Simply put - we are in an AWESOME position now. Full disclosure - my setup is a little unorthodox-

Full haste gems for Yellow Slots, Strength for Red slots and Haste/PVP Power gems for Blue slots - fully reforged for haste/critical Tyrannical gear+enchants (PTR allows you to start at the maximum level) Putting my resil at 65% and power at 39.X% (PVP resil gems are now 160 vs. 320, so no point wasting a slot on pure resil.)

BEFORE the power nerf - heals were ridiculous, unless someone had a way of silencing you, you could crit heal in battle for over 100K easy.

NOW - having less power, the heals aren't as high, but they are still fantastic. The heals are still about on par, if not higher than what we have now, and with more power no doubt you can heal better. The damage boost definitely allows you to keeps some pressure on other classes.

As far as Paladins vs. other classes.

Warriors must have it bad this patch too, none of them come close to matching up (though I suppose that since I've been playing, that has always been the case) and you can kite + heal through the damage.

Monks are still a hard fight, but not impossible (but almost) Rogues Burst seems to have been toned down, so you're actually going to have a chance to counter. DKs seem to have been toned down as well; you now have a chance of healing through necro, YAY!

Warlocks and Mages have always been a problem for me - this patch won't change that, but I'm sure better players will love the ability to heal for more and last longer. Hunters seem weaker, but I've been getting better at countering them, so it usually comes down to who is a better player.

Overall, you do last longer and you do heal better, but I wouldn't say the PTR is the final word on how the game will be when live - the changes aren't official for one, and the talent level of the people on the PTR is in question as well. I'm happy with the changes for now; I think that everyone will be as well.
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90 Human Paladin
7380
@ Amuroraye - Thanks for the info!
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
19125
We will be behind pure clases, their healing is now going to scale with PvP Power (second wind, conversion healthstone etc).

There will be less damage, but also less healing, we will still have to gem resilence and we will do way less damage on our 2 min CD burst, I really hope Sword of Light buff compensate for this. Also, CC classes will get the edge with these new changes, as CC will be way more effective in order to score a Kill.

EDIT: Also Ret paladin most viable comp (Ret/hunt) is gettin a Huge nerf, so we will be having a hard time finding partners for arenas, and we will still not get invited to RBGs.
Edited by Faeria on 4/29/2013 1:29 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
5610
I disagree, I think it will hurt us. Ret's sustain dmg is completely garbage and this will only make it worst.
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100 Human Paladin
9945
i was on PTR last night and did a few random bg's. i'd say overall my dmg was a little less than it is on live, but then again i noticed so was everybody else's. my flash heals were more.

my pvp power dropped by about 20%, and my resilience went up like 2% (without any modifications to live).

i DID notice that some classes that would normally explode me weren't do that. i kinda felt sorry for the warriors; their dmg was generally just south of middle of the pack.

overall, fights lasted a little longer.
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90 Human Paladin
3555
Damage was lower, but I didn't notice too much because I was stacking haste - otherwise, this change means we are no longer bottom tier.
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100 Orc Death Knight
18870
I think it's a change that works in your benefit. Your heals are going to be roughly the same and your damage (everyone) is going down by about 20%. You are getting buffed by roughly 10% as well, so overall you're going to see moderate damage losses while everyone else will see a noticeable difference.

To the contrary I think Retribution in 3s anyway really shines when they can control the tempo. If damage is high you have to use CDs in order to live or support your allies that are getting blasted. In a world where overall damage is lower (still talking 3s) it gives you much more time to react.

It will make CC a bit more potent but it will also make hybrid support healing more potent as well.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
19125
04/29/2013 02:45 PMPosted by Gròmmash
Your heals are going to be roughly the same and your damage (everyone) is going down by about 20%.


Did the Math test, our heals will be lower, it "should" be compensated when everyone deals less damage.

If damage is high you have to use CDs in order to live or support your allies that are getting blasted. In a world where overall damage is lower (still talking 3s) it gives you much more time to react.


Let's hope you're right, but if our damage goes too low we will not be able to score a kill.

It will make CC a bit more potent but it will also make hybrid support healing more potent as well.


And that's the reason ret is not amazing in arena, our lack of CC and our inability to avoid it, now that our main comp is being nerfed (BM/ret) we will have trouble finding any partners for any viable 3's comp.
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