My Thoughts on Kanrethad

90 Worgen Warlock
10065
So, I just got green fire. It took me like 25 attempts.

Originally I was trying the fight in full PVP gear with 6% hit cap and the fight was terrible. Beyond the normal buggy stuff: fel hunters turning around and dispelling for no apparent reason, I think the biggest problem was it was taking so long to kill him that I'd get into situations where I had to juggle too much and I wasn't really invested in green fire enough to start making macros for the fight.

Then I decided to run LFR a few times and reforge for hit. I got some crappy 502s that I gemmed for hit. It was a huge pain in the a to run these btw...an hour long queue to get into a 2/3 wipefest...yikes.

That being the case, once I got some PVE gear and reforged, I killed him in basically 3 attempts. I nuked him down before the second fel hunter phase easy peasy.

I've seen all the complaining about this fight, and I think most of it is rightfully so...the fight is a bit overtuned and especially for PVP gear levels. Besides fixing the obvious buggy behavior, blizz really should have utilized gear normalization for this fight. There would have been a lot less complaining.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
I don't know how people consider a fight that's DPS is tuned (without using a purification potion) to the ilevel of approximately ~490.

5.2 called: It says its content drops 502s or greater, and has VP rewards of 522.

I also don't know how people can even begin to say this when they themselves get it in 25 attempts. That's like, in line with progression during raids.
Edited by Varlth on 4/27/2013 6:26 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
10065
I don't know how people consider a fight that's DPS is tuned (without using a purification potion) to the ilevel of approximately ~490.

5.2 called: It says its content drops 502s or greater, and has VP rewards of 522.

I also don't know how people can even begin to say this when they themselves get it in 25 attempts. That's like, in line with progression during raids.


Not everyone PVEs -- I hate doing it these days.

25 attempts isn't bad, but I've been a gamer for 26 years. Not everyone is and that shouldn't prevent them from succeeding in solo content.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
Not everyone is and that shouldn't prevent them from succeeding in solo content.


Solo content that doesn't matter? It's green fire. What WOULD you like to see remain even remotely challenging in a video game like this? When Blizzard introduces a quest to increase your DPS by 10% should that be super hard and gate people from being accepted to guilds because they can't complete the 10% damage increase?

And preventing them? Nothing is being prevented with how the fight is tuned. It's tuned, again, for about a 490 ilevel. That's pretty low considering that's on par with T14 gear. PvP or PvE-wise.

If you can't do the content now then you have options. Get better or outgear the fight. Come 5.4 the fight is going to be a joke even with the PvP gear.

04/27/2013 06:28 PMPosted by Terrorize
Not everyone PVEs -- I hate doing it these days.


PvE and PvP gear are itemized roughly the same. The ilevel of PvP gear is just lower than the same ilevel of PvE gear.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
10065
04/27/2013 06:36 PMPosted by Varlth
Not everyone is and that shouldn't prevent them from succeeding in solo content.


Solo content that doesn't matter? It's green fire. What WOULD you like to see remain even remotely challenging in a video game like this? When Blizzard introduces a quest to increase your DPS by 10% should that be super hard and gate people from being accepted to guilds because they can't complete the 10% damage increase?

And preventing them? Nothing is being prevented with how the fight is tuned. It's tuned, again, for about a 490 ilevel. That's pretty low considering that's on par with T14 gear. PvP or PvE-wise.

If you can't do the content now then you have options. Get better or outgear the fight. Come 5.4 the fight is going to be a joke even with the PvP gear.

04/27/2013 06:28 PMPosted by Terrorize
Not everyone PVEs -- I hate doing it these days.


PvE and PvP gear are itemized roughly the same. The ilevel of PvP gear is just lower than the same ilevel of PvE gear.


Except 496 ilvl PVP gear is pretty gated at the start of a season.

And honestly, the answer to your first question, what sort of content should be hard, the answer is no solo content should be hard. Blizz bought the "accessibility" design scheme years ago; they want everyone to be able to see the content. That doesn't mean once you outgear it, that means when it's relevant.

I'm not saying the encounter should be horridly nerfed (or nerfed at all). They need to fix some of the weird bugs (like puppies spawning on top of you) and normalize the gear. That would probably be enough.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
04/27/2013 07:00 PMPosted by Terrorize
Blizz bought the "accessibility" design scheme years ago; they want everyone to be able to see the content.


Good news!

The encounter nerfs itself with gear and this isn't the last patch or expansion! So everyone will get it!

So that means...that means...we can stop crying that not everyone has it less than two months in! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

04/27/2013 07:00 PMPosted by Terrorize
Except 496 ilvl PVP gear is pretty gated at the start of a season.


Play arena/BGs > get conquest points > buy gear > ???? > profit

Or just use a purification potion and be able to do this encounter as low as 460.

04/27/2013 07:00 PMPosted by Terrorize
That doesn't mean once you outgear it, that means when it's relevant.


If you want to play that game then I'm going to have to ask Blizzard to buff Kan before they nerf it since he was released on 5.2, not T14.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
10065
04/27/2013 07:35 PMPosted by Varlth
Blizz bought the "accessibility" design scheme years ago; they want everyone to be able to see the content.


Good news!

The encounter nerfs itself with gear and this isn't the last patch or expansion! So everyone will get it!

So that means...that means...we can stop crying that not everyone has it less than two months in! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

Except 496 ilvl PVP gear is pretty gated at the start of a season.


Play arena/BGs > get conquest points > buy gear > ???? > profit

Or just use a purification potion and be able to do this encounter as low as 460.

That doesn't mean once you outgear it, that means when it's relevant.


If you want to play that game then I'm going to have to ask Blizzard to buff Kan before they nerf it since he was released on 5.2, not T14.


You seem pretty angry over this; is your self esteem tied to this encounter? I don't get it.

1. Like I said before, Blizz wants the content to be accessible. Saying they will outgear it and be able to succeed next patch...or next expansion (really?)...doesn't fit their model for PVE content.

2. If you cap conquest every week, you'll be lucky to get one piece of tyrannical gear for the first few weeks. Compare to PVE gear, where you can get multiple pieces each week. Using a purification potion is a catch 22 for unskilled players -- sure they get more time, but as the encounter progresses it gets more hectic.

Kanrethad is just a huge departure from Blizz's current design scheme. The fight honestly seems more in place in vanilla, where you actually had a chance of dying while questing. Not saying that it's necessarily a bad thing...
Reply Quote
100 Orc Warlock
11555
Everyone needs to stop replying to these threads. We get it, the boss is a wee bit difficult. Can't do it? Try harder, you'll get it. There are millions of guides out there telling you how to do it. We don't need a new thread every time someone wants to talk about it.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
10065
Everyone needs to stop replying to these threads. We get it, the boss is a wee bit difficult. Can't do it? Try harder, you'll get it. There are millions of guides out there telling you how to do it. We don't need a new thread every time someone wants to talk about it.


the opinion moderator
Reply Quote
100 Orc Warlock
11555
There are 13 green fire threads on the first page alone. I'm sure your oh so valuable opinion could find a home on one of those.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
10215
Epeen boost: I did it in full mal, ilvl 483, one handed after my shoulder surgery (pve weap from toes). It took me A LONG time but I wanted it and I eventually got it.

25 attempts isn't bad


Not at all.

That being the case, once I got some PVE gear and reforged, I killed him in basically 3 attempts


What you are saying is, "once I got gear from this patch, which this fight is attuned to, I killed him quite fast." High item level gear is quite easy to get, especially since you can get 522 gear from a vendor.

1. Like I said before, Blizz wants the content to be accessible. Saying they will outgear it and be able to succeed next patch...or next expansion (really?)...doesn't fit their model for PVE content.


5.2 will allow you to out gear the encounter, next patch you will extremely out gear it. (Although I think it's actually going to be the patch after next as 5.3 won't deliver a new raid, could be wrong though.) Some players are extremely bad and will have to wait for next xpac yet will still see the content.

2. If you cap conquest every week, you'll be lucky to get one piece of tyrannical gear for the first few weeks. Compare to PVE gear, where you can get multiple pieces each week. Using a purification potion is a catch 22 for unskilled players -- sure they get more time, but as the encounter progresses it gets more hectic.


2200 conquest cap given to all players. Shoulders = 1750, gloves = 1750, wrist = 1250, etc. If you cap, it will not take you several weeks for a piece. Heck after 4 weeks you can have the weapon along with 2-4 pieces depending on what you buy.

As far as gear normalization goes, that would work but it would probably be normalized to 502 which is the ToT raid finder ilvl. Gear wouldn't scale up, it would scale down. This would further the point of, "this is a 5.2 quest, get 5.2 gear." As many people have stated, this fight is not a gear check, it is a mechanics check.

Using a purification potion is a catch 22 for unskilled players -- sure they get more time, but as the encounter progresses it gets more hectic.


I used a purification pot and I didn't find the fight to get more hectic, in fact I found it easier as wave after wave of imps spawned and I was able to RoF them then spam the crap out of shadowburn. (the attempt before I got to the imp waves but died because of the curse.)

Everyone needs to stop replying to these threads


I know :3. Sometimes I just like to pick one and reply to it.

Inb4 "UMAD BRO" I am not at all. I am just tired of people expecting easy content and when blizzard delivers content that is not one shottable people complain. I found this quest line extremely rewarding and if I had rolled in and easily killed Kanrethad I wouldn't appreciate green fire.

edit:

There are 13 green fire threads on the first page alone. I'm sure your oh so valuable opinion could find a home on one of those.


I'm tired of coming to warlock forums and seeing so many green fire threads. yes I should stop replying but this only like the 3rd one I've replied to.
Edited by Släeos on 4/28/2013 6:46 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Orc Warlock
11845
Everyone needs to stop replying to these threads. We get it, the boss is a wee bit difficult. Can't do it? Try harder, you'll get it. There are millions of guides out there telling you how to do it. We don't need a new thread every time someone wants to talk about it.


Stop replying? Like you just did?
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
10065
There are 13 green fire threads on the first page alone. I'm sure your oh so valuable opinion could find a home on one of those.


As an 8+ year long subscriber, my opinion is probably pretty valuable to Blizzard.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
10065
Some players are extremely bad and will have to wait for next xpac yet will still see the content.


This is what I'm talking about; I know a lot of people that are casuals and don't get into the minutia of learning their class. That being said, I know some lifelong locks like that that have been wanting green fire for a long time, but just can't handle the fight.

I'm not advocating that "all content should be accessible" is the best business model; Blizzard clearly is though, otherwise we'd still have 40-man raids. Kanrethad seems like a strange departure from that model.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
10215
This is what I'm talking about; I know a lot of people that are casuals and don't get into the minutia of learning their class. That being said, I know some lifelong locks like that that have been wanting green fire for a long time, but just can't handle the fight.


It's their fault for not knowing their class. None of the mechanics in Kanrethad are petty class skills either. Enslaving, demonic portals, havoc, using defensive cool downs, and pet management are all fairly large warlock skills.

Blutnly put, the lifelong warlocks are bad if they cannot handle it.

I'm not advocating that "all content should be accessible" is the best business model; Blizzard clearly is though, otherwise we'd still have 40-man raids. Kanrethad seems like a strange departure from that model.


40 man raids died out with BC and they didn't make content open for everyone then, look at sunwell. Plus kanrethad is accessible to most locks as it's fairly easy to get there once you have the tome, killing him isn't.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
10065
40 man raids died out with BC and they didn't make content open for everyone then, look at sunwell. Plus kanrethad is accessible to most locks as it's fairly easy to get there once you have the tome, killing him isn't.


straw man argument much? Just cause everyone can walk into Heroic TOT doesn't mean it's accessible to everyone.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
10065
04/28/2013 08:05 AMPosted by Släeos
Blutnly put, the lifelong warlocks are bad if they cannot handle it.


You're exactly right, and since when has that prevented anyone from experiencing PVE content in WOW? and especially solo PVE content.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
You seem pretty angry over this; is your self esteem tied to this encounter? I don't get it.


Nope. I four shot this encounter. I wouldn't tie it to my self esteem at all. I'm a good 30 ilevels above the tuned ilevel with strong trinkets, and 2 set. My kill was pretty dang sloppy TBH.

1. Like I said before, Blizz wants the content to be accessible. Saying they will outgear it and be able to succeed next patch...or next expansion (really?)...doesn't fit their model for PVE content.


There really shouldn't be many people out there that can't do this content in the next patch. Basically what you want is some uber easy boss so everyone can get, but still tuned to an ilevel of 490? How does that even work? He's tuned to an ilevel of 490. He's not that hard. He has some mechanics to deal with. Or do you just want Blizzard to gut it down to a 450 ilevel so people in questing greens can claim this boss is unfair?

The people who do it in the next expac will be the ones who didn't try to get it.

2. If you cap conquest every week, you'll be lucky to get one piece of tyrannical gear for the first few weeks. Compare to PVE gear, where you can get multiple pieces each week.


Using a purification potion is a catch 22 for unskilled players -- sure they get more time, but as the encounter progresses it gets more hectic.


Haha, what? After you get out of the 2nd felhunter stage it's pretty much GG. Kill/fear/banish/Pit lord tank the Doomguards, and enjoy the infinite embers you have each time he summons imps. The only issue at this point is whether or not you can beat the double enrage timer (Which is pretty easy since a 458 person did it with like 4-5 minutes left on the second one)

Kanrethad is just a huge departure from Blizz's current design scheme. The fight honestly seems more in place in vanilla, where you actually had a chance of dying while questing. Not saying that it's necessarily a bad thing...


I wouldn't really say huge. 490 ilevel is below being T14 gear. And that's still if you don't use a purification potion. The purification potion removes the damage requirement so as long as you can learn the mechanics you get green fire.

This isn't really a quest. This is an incredibly unique encounter created for warlocks. Yes, it's behind a quest, but the entire population of WoW won't see it, nor will any other class see it. It's not really fair to compare this quest to a typical WoW quest.

It's ok for a few things to be challenging. It's not like Isle dailies, leveling, dungeons, or LFR is challenging.

As an 8+ year long subscriber, my opinion is probably pretty valuable to Blizzard.


People still don't know that Blizzard doesn't read any class forums?

Also, 8+ years here too. I guess I'm cancelling you out or something then.

You're exactly right, and since when has that prevented anyone from experiencing PVE content in WOW? and especially solo PVE content.


There has never really been much solo content in WoW. Questing sure as hell wasn't 100% solo.

LFG DURN THE HUNGERER
Edited by Varlth on 4/28/2013 9:14 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
10215
straw man argument much? Just cause everyone can walk into Heroic TOT doesn't mean it's accessible to everyone.


Fact: 40 man raids died out with BC.
Fact: 5% of players saw sunwell as current content
Targeted: towards refuting "all content should be accessible." This is only a recent development. I quit during wrath when there wasn't LFD/LFR and content was just then starting to be tuned down with Normal and Heroic versions.

I am saying that the warlock questline is accessible to everyone once they have the tome, they may not be able to defeat the boss though. LFR allows people to view the content but does not guarantee a boss will die.

I could actually use a fallacy and attack you but what's the point.

especially solo PVE content.


Relatively back on track, what solo pve content? I am drawing a blank as I think this is the only true solo content in the game. Everything else you can invite other people to.

This is all just for a COSMETIC change. It will not increase dps, give you another pet, or provide any benefit to you whatsoever. I love all the QQ about this questline. Poor people actually have to learn a fight and know their class instead of being carried by others.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]