legendary meta gem balance (dps)

90 Blood Elf Paladin
17160
Ok so I got my Legendary meta gem today [Capacitive Primal Diamond] and I was very excited because as retribution I really need every edge I can get in order to compete on the charts in my raid, and I have acquired the gem maybe a week before most of my group. Immediately I take it to the training dummy to see what kind of numbers I get and after beating on the target for a few minutes I look to get a ballpark of what % damage i'm increasing by. In my recount I find Lightning strike which is the damage from capacitance, and it's only 6-7% of my total damage.

WHAT!?

6-7%!?

I've been hearing from all my caster friends who have gotten it that their DPS has gone up 20% or more!

The damage on lightning strike could be buffed by 100% and it would still be underpowered.

And why the hell do casters need even more dps? They're ahead on all the charts already. (at least vs ret for sure)

If this is a Gem that is going to persist for the remainder of the expansion some better balance needs to be attained.

EDIT: and no this isn't where tuning RPPM will help, where this gem is at it already procs almost every swing as it is.
Edited by Adambomber on 4/30/2013 10:43 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
In my recount I find Lightning strike which is the damage from capacitance, and it's only 6-7% of my total damage.

WHAT!?

6-7%!?

I've been hearing from all my caster friends who have gotten it that their DPS has gone up 20% or more!


So your caster friends gained 30k single target DPS from the metagem? They're ballparking the DPS increase and doing a poor job of it.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
16300
You seem to have really unreasonable expectations for this gem. A 6-7% dps gain is huge. The only thing that comes close to that kind of damage increase is getting a new weapon or completing a REALLY good set bonus. This gem is on top of the extra socket on your weapon and will also be used in tandem with the 5.3 cloaks. The gem alone can't be a 20% dps increase, lest they have to tune encounters so that people that haven't done the questline are completely worthless.

The casters aren't getting a 20% dps increase anyway. The proc would have to be up basically 100% of the time for that to happen, and it just isn't.

Since the proc is pretty much entirely AP based, there is no worry about it becoming obsolete later. In fact, the gems are so strong that even if they weren't allowed in 5.4 helms, people would just keep using ToT helms. The only reason people moved away from the sha gems is because of the huge gains in weapon damage/spell power you get for using a higher item level weapon. That won't be the case for upgrading helmets.
Edited by Asthas on 4/30/2013 11:18 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17160
Well I was specifically referring to my warlock friend. That may explain it.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
17155
Well I was specifically referring to my warlock friend. That may explain it.


I'll make two guesses right here. Your Warlock friend is Affliction, and they were exaggerating a wee bit.

Yes, the caster gem is very good for Afflic, which loves Haste simply to death. It's not 20% good, but it's still quite good. This is not a universal result for all casters, or even all Warlocks. Heck, some of the Destro theorycrafters are seriously wondering if it's actually better than the standard metagem at all.
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90 Orc Warrior
15070
It's about 5-6% for me. And it's a RPPM system so classes that like haste are going to get much more out of it than those that dont.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11975
Don't make the mistake of saying the gem is a 6% overall dps gain because it deals 6% of your damage.

Remember the opportunity cost of not having the other gem, which although it does not directly deal damage itself makes everything else hit harder.
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90 Human Warlock
17825
Love how 'all my caster friends' when pushed translated to 'one warlock friend'.

And though I do adore the metagem, there's no way its anywhere close to a 20% dps increase. Not even close to that big a swing.
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
keep in mind, you're losing the 3% crit dmg bonus by using this. and some strength. (crit sucks for ret)

with 4pc, which is really strong, a crit holy tv is a big chunk of damage and hand of light damage. changing the meta, actually means you are losing a lot of damage.

you make up for it with the lightning strike damage. which is good, but it isnt a legendary weapon proc. consider it an extra trinket proc for a helmet. it absolutely wont give a class 20% more dps, ever. if anything, it's a small upgrade over traditional metas. the only game changing procs are the tank procs, imo. 20% less damage? yes please.

tl;dr, the metagem is not dragonwrath or shadowmourne. its orange, but not really.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16835
It's not 20%. Not by a long shot.

It only comes outto be a 6% gain with % or two more dependent on your RNG on a specific encounter.

The only class who sees an "immense" gain (10% range) is Elemental Shaman but it's because of the synergy between the legendary meta, their 4pc, and higher gear levels allowing for incredible levels of Mastery. They all work together to give a large yield with the meta itself being the catalyst for the damage spike and not the sole provider or source.
Edited by Bullettime on 5/1/2013 4:00 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Warrior
16300
Just to clear some things up.

The crit damage meta's second effect is ~1.5-2% dps boost for most people. It can't be higher than 3%, because if 100% of your damage was from crits, it'd be a 3% boost. This is true even if you have more than double damage crits.

If something shows up as x% of your damage, it increased your damage by more than x% (compared to having nothing at all). Its close for fairly small values of x, but for larger values, its way different. If something shows up as 50% of your damage, it actually doubled your damage.

Also, keep in mind that individual specs get different base proc rates. Its not necessarily true that specs that stack lots of haste and crit get a bigger effect out of it, because that may be accounted for by the base proc rate. It might not be, or might not be accounted for sufficiently, but its harder to determine than just by looking at haste/crit.

All in all, the metas should be at the very least a 5% gain over the old metas. Some may be higher, but not 20%.
Edited by Asthas on 5/1/2013 4:05 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
12850
I do about 70-80K single target and if I apply the meta I will do 110-125K single target.

Yeah not going to use a game breaking glitched gem.

if this is not a glitch it seams not faire and needs a nerf before I use something like that
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16835
I do about 70-80K single target and if I apply the meta I will do 110-125K single target.

Yeah not going to use a game breaking glitched gem.

if this is not a glitch it seams not faire and needs a nerf before I use something like that


That's bull!@#$ when it only equates to a 6% buff. The class with the most gain would be 10% for Elemental and that's if used with the 4pc and a high Mastery build. The gem's RPPM values are different for each spec in order to keep their intended goal of 5-6%.
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90 Troll Death Knight
13795
I wish I got 6-7% out of the legendary meta. As a Frost DK I'm getting on average 3% damage done by Lightning Strike. That's really only about a 1.5% or so increase over the normal meta.

Very disappointing, especially considering you work for so long to get it.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17255
Ok so I got my Legendary meta gem today [Capacitive Primal Diamond] and I was very excited because as retribution I really need every edge I can get in order to compete on the charts in my raid, and I have acquired the gem maybe a week before most of my group. Immediately I take it to the training dummy to see what kind of numbers I get and after beating on the target for a few minutes I look to get a ballpark of what % damage i'm increasing by. In my recount I find Lightning strike which is the damage from capacitance, and it's only 6-7% of my total damage.

WHAT!?

6-7%!?

I've been hearing from all my caster friends who have gotten it that their DPS has gone up 20% or more!

The damage on lightning strike could be buffed by 100% and it would still be underpowered.

And why the hell do casters need even more dps? They're ahead on all the charts already. (at least vs ret for sure)

If this is a Gem that is going to persist for the remainder of the expansion some better balance needs to be attained.

EDIT: and no this isn't where tuning RPPM will help, where this gem is at it already procs almost every swing as it is.


They're poorly designed.

A 30% haste buff for DoT classes is pretty OP.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
16300
I wish I got 6-7% out of the legendary meta. As a Frost DK I'm getting on average 3% damage done by Lightning Strike. That's really only about a 1.5% or so increase over the normal meta.

Very disappointing, especially considering you work for so long to get it.


What fight are you looking at? I've looked through a few logs for frost DKs and I'm seeing 6-7% for single targets. It'll be less percentage wise for AoE/cleave situations because the damage of the gem will stay the same but your overall dps will go up, but that applies to everyone for the capacitive gem. The caster gem can aid in AoE though, so it has an advantage there.
Edited by Asthas on 5/3/2013 4:15 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Warlock
18935
Its more like 12K bump for affliction (+/- a thousand or so based on other gear) and that is only with normalized rng. Since its RPPM its completely random in that you can have one parse where you might see 8% uptime and another where you see 25% uptime.

Since the meta's proc is largely wasted on destro I know several locks (incuding brusalk who is one of the best destro locks out there and who has cleared through Ra-den) who sticks with the conventional caster meta for destro.

I'm just saying that taking 1 warlock, on a single (or even just a couple) fights, is incredibly small sample size. Remember all the posts from blizz on how RPPM works and how they balance it on the macroscopic level of tens or hundreds of thousands of parses/people?

That said much of current content favors range moreso than melee...at least if you aren't a rogue. Just play to the best of your ability, do the mechanics properly, and you will likely see content die for your raid.
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90 Human Rogue
17275
05/03/2013 02:03 PMPosted by Tsrew
Since the meta's proc is largely wasted on destro I know several locks (incuding brusalk who is one of the best destro locks out there and who has cleared through Ra-den) who sticks with the conventional caster meta for destro.


Destro is pretty much in the same boat as Elemental Shaman are. Both classes have 1 rather inconsequential DoT. And it's hard to give up that extra 3% crit dmg for classes with guaranteed crits in their rotation which leads to a very easily quantifiable value in terms of DPS.

Although, I'd still say Destro gets more out of that legendary meta that Ele.

Point is -- that's how poorly the Legendary Metas are designed.

DoT classes aren't just able to cast/channel faster, but the sheer size of the Haste proc bumps them up 1 and sometimes even 2 haste plateaus for an absurd number of free ticks.

Blizzard seems to not have any real design sense at all. They don't care if Boomkins can extend a DoT with 100% crit chance -- yet, that was exactly the reason they changed all the automatic DoT refreshers at the start of MoP.

It's like the Blizzard developers have that disease that the guy in Memento had.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16835
Since the meta's proc is largely wasted on destro I know several locks (incuding brusalk who is one of the best destro locks out there and who has cleared through Ra-den) who sticks with the conventional caster meta for destro.


Destro is pretty much in the same boat as Elemental Shaman are. Both classes have 1 rather inconsequential DoT. And it's hard to give up that extra 3% crit dmg for classes with guaranteed crits in their rotation which leads to a very easily quantifiable value in terms of DPS.

Although, I'd still say Destro gets more out of that legendary meta that Ele.

Point is -- that's how poorly the Legendary Metas are designed.

DoT classes aren't just able to cast/channel faster, but the sheer size of the Haste proc bumps them up 1 and sometimes even 2 haste plateaus for an absurd number of free ticks.

Blizzard seems to not have any real design sense at all. They don't care if Boomkins can extend a DoT with 100% crit chance -- yet, that was exactly the reason they changed all the automatic DoT refreshers at the start of MoP.

It's like the Blizzard developers have that disease that the guy in Memento had.


What are you talking about? Elemental sees a decent increase from it and has one of the highest proc rates of anyone else to compensate for their lack of dots. The dot heavier classes have less procs to compensate for more effectiveness on each proc.

The large uptime % also encourages Ele to stack Mastery with their 4pc for additional gain over standard.

Every spec has a different RPPM to give everyone comparable benefit. It's not the same static value. Destro is just a strange case due to the 3% crit damage impacting their Chaos Bolt for the entire fight while not having a very high RPPM value on the legendary due to inherent spec strength.
Edited by Bullettime on 5/5/2013 4:28 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
0
We get a 6% overall increase over the Burning meta.

Pretty solid for sure, but remember that in order to get 6% increase, we basically have half perma-hero.

I wonder what other classes that actually scale with haste would get if they had 50% uptime on 30% haste.
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