having problems with council

90 Blood Elf Monk
7680
i have logs for our council attempts, healers are going oom due to raidwide damage

lik to logs is http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xpy43jd12vbn9bfx/

any help or tips would be greatly appreciated
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
15910
Only took a real quick look at your logs, but other than melee Sandbolt is by far the highest amount of damage your raid is taking.

The most commonly used strat is to burn Sul as much as possible with the idea of killing him before he gets empowered. In any case it's a good idea to keep a tank and a melee DPS on him at all times to interrupt as many of the Sandbolt casts as possible. You might have to call out in vent who's getting the next one.

On your longest attempt (try 5 4min12sec) there was a total of 6 interrupts with over 10million damage taken by Sandbolt.

Our last kill. which took 5min41 sec we had 18 interrupts and less than 3million damage from Sandbolt. I sat that fight out this week, but the week before we took 2million damage from Sandbolt. Yay for AS catching a few more interrupts, lol.

That's a lot of basically avoidable damage your healers need to deal with so get on your interrupts.

Also saw a few deaths from people standing in Quicksand and from the little sand adds. If you cant kill Sul before he empowers, your tanks need to pick them up or they'll start gibbing your healers.

Overall your DPS seems a bit low to me, especially your shammy and hunter, so maybe have them work on their rotations a bit.

If you have any question regarding refining your strat, just drop another post. Any heal-related questions are going to have to be answered by someone else, as I know virtually nothing about healing, lol.

Anyways, hope this helps and Good Luck!
Edited by Typan on 4/28/2013 2:39 AM PDT
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90 Gnome Mage
7970
Pop Lust on the pull and drop to 2 healers. You can have all dps on sul until the first loa spawns then have 2 switch to frost king. Sul should die before he empowers. Have your rogue focus sul until he dies and have him and your tank get as many interrupts as possible.

Since the dark power and hp nerfs your group should have no trouble killing it with this method.

Good luck and happy killing.
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90 Human Paladin
16345
1). Too much Sand Bolt damage and too little interrupt on Sul...

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xpy43jd12vbn9bfx/xe/?x=type+%3D+TYPE_DISPEL%0D%0AAND+targetName+%3D+%22Sul+the+Sandcrawler%22

^-- you guys did a total of 18 interrupts on Sul in 8 attempts, that's not really acceptable... In our Council kill last Friday I did 19 interrupts while our dps warrior did 4 on Sul... In our kill we took a total of 2.6 million sand bolt damage (Sul died near Sandstorm), in your Try #8 (wiping before Sandstorm) you guys already took 10.2 million sand bolt damage...

Granted you don't need to interrupt every Sand Bolt, but doing average of 2 interrupts per attempt just won't cut it...

2). Did you guys put a melee on Sul full time? Have him share the burden of interrupting Sand Bolts...
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7680
we didnt put a melee on sul full time, it was our first time in there and the strat videos we watched said nothing about that
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
15910
Another little trick you could use is to have one of your priests stay near Marli and use Void Tendrils on the Loa adds she spawns. Should be up for every Loa add that spawns.

I don't know which strat videos you guys use, but in my opinion Vox Immortalis (Hyjal-Horde) put out some of the best videos I've seen. Yes, they tend to be very long (20-45min fight depending) but they are very detailed, and go in depth on all aspects of any fight. So whatever extra time your team will spend watching these, you'll more than make up with better attempts and faster kills.

Here's a link to their council video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s5DHtdH5ls
Edited by Typan on 4/29/2013 2:18 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
13260
We burn Sul down first and I will say from the healer PoV (and we 2-heal this fight) it's a mana drain when 4 are up but once that first guy drops, it becomes almost trivial to heal. You can afford to burn through it initially because you'll have a lot more room to breathe and recoup some after Sul dies.
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
2 heals, pre pot lust and burn sul, put just enough dps on malakk to break his empower right around 100 energy.

You can also one tank it to squeeze in an extra dps if you have a monk or druid tank as they can save there AM for just when fridge assault is up and not get stunned, just have to NOT interrupt marli so she stays in one place.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
17785
We wiped for a long time before we made a couple of small changes that made a huge difference. The main change is that our Mar'li tank gets aggro on her for 5-10 seconds and then ignores her and attacks Sul. Mar'li will stay still and cast on the tank. That's fine, it's not hard to heal through and it gives the tank Vengeance. The extra DPS from the off-tank made a huge difference in getting Sul down before his Empower. Our offtank is a bear, so he did good cleave on Malakk too.

The main benefit was the added DPS, but there are several other benefits. It's much easier to swap Malakk between the tanks if the tanks are standing next to each other. This also keeps Malakk next to Sul for more cleaving. While Malakk is empowered, have the Frostbite target stand on the tanks. Neither tanks nor the Frostbite target can be targeted by Quicksand, so that removes a dangerous element from the fight. It's also much easier to heal the Frostbite damage on the tanks since they are being healed anyway and have better mitigation.

If you do a little bit of damage to Kazra'jin, then Mar'li will be the second Empowered, since she takes very little damage from the tank with this strat. We found this MUCH better than Kazra second. When she empowers, interrupt her and tank her next to Sul and Malakk. This allows for maximum cleaving goodness! You could tank her with them from the start, but then Kazra will empower second. It's better for Mar'li to be second so you can just cleave Sul and the empowered target instead of chasing Kazra around. You will need to kill the Shadow Spirits, of course. We only kill the healing spirits for the first Malakk empower. After that we ignore them. (Malakk gaining a bit of HP after Sul dies is fine to make sure you can get Kazra low enough so that he's not the only boss left with way too much HP and Dark Power kills you all.)

When Kazra empowers, we ignore him and finish Sul off. For our group, Sul is under 15% by this point and it's easy to finish him. Then put all DPS on Kazra to push him out of empower. After that it's easy. The only possible failure at this point is if you kill off Malakk and Mar'li while Kazra has too much HP. In that case he'll never stop Dark Power and will probably wipe your raid. We like to kill Mar'li second to get rid of the healing spirits, but letting a few hit Malakk is fine, as I mentioned.

It might sound complex, but it's a very small change. Most of it is intuitive. Only real changes are to have your offtank attack Sul after getting aggro on Mar'li. Right before the first Frostbite is a good time for the tank to move over. Then have Frostbite stand on the tanks and the rest will be easy.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
11305
we didnt put a melee on sul full time, it was our first time in there and the strat videos we watched said nothing about that


what makes this fight a 100000 times easier is killing sul before he empowers, or kill him just as he empowers. on the pull we focus him, bloodlust, and stay on him till the king is at half energy. from there on we keep 2 melee on him to interrupt and kill while the rest focus the empowered. we always kill him just before he empowers. honestly, if you kill sul before he empowers the rest of the fight is a joke lol

i cant critique the rest of the dps in there, since i dont play them. but the rogue has a lot of improvement that he can make. my rupture uptime on that fight is always 95%+, his is averaging at like 65-70% which is terrible. this is important as an assassination rogue. over the course of a 7 min kill, i gained almost over 3000 extra energy from this. hes sitting at 600 extra most of the time at 3 mins, which half of what im getting. thats a lot of energy hes missing out on. one thing i do, which he should practice doing, is put stress on 3 of them at once. i can keep rupture rolling on 3 of the council members at all times along wiht my poisons. the key to this is to make sure 1 of those is sul, because he needs to die fast. the 2nd needs to be the empowered target, and the 3rd to be the next closest council member you can reach. shadowstep is really good for this fight, i use it on cooldown. i also redirect 5 combo points when Kazra rolls on towards my current target and rupture him. hes usually my third because hes always rolling at us. also, no pre-pots or any pots during the fight? this is a serious damage loss. without a pot i spike to 180k, with a pot i can spike to 280k, should be using those...especially to burn sul down before he empowers. that one goes for all raid dps, cause your dps is slightly on the low side
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100 Worgen Druid
15075
04/29/2013 01:18 PMPosted by Skarn
We wiped for a long time before we made a couple of small changes that made a huge difference.


I wish there were raid guides that talked about those little things that make a huge difference. Instead of copy-pasting the dungeon journal and tripling the text with waffle.

Perhaps the guide writers never notice because they tend to have highly-skilled groups so they beat the fight fairly easily and don't encounter problems that show up when your group is at a lower gear/skill level.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
19425
Our strat also involved melee and tank full time in sul and rest on empowered. If your dps is high enough burn sul but otherwise 2 on sul is good. Have him stacked on frost king and let people cleave with early lust as well and you can feasibly kill him before empowers
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100 Orc Death Knight
17610
Keep your melee on Sul the entire time, lust on the pull and make sure the interrupts are good. Just pop everything and get him as low as you possibly can. Cleave to Malakk as much as you can and just make sure you beat his empower right around when he hits 100 energy. Depending on how good your cleave is you will have to make a call to swap DPS over to him if you think that he's going to sit at full power for awhile.

Void tendrils on any type of priest makes the loas from Marli incredibly easy.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
17785
04/29/2013 05:03 PMPosted by Autumni
We wiped for a long time before we made a couple of small changes that made a huge difference.


I wish there were raid guides that talked about those little things that make a huge difference. Instead of copy-pasting the dungeon journal and tripling the text with waffle.

Perhaps the guide writers never notice because they tend to have highly-skilled groups so they beat the fight fairly easily and don't encounter problems that show up when your group is at a lower gear/skill level.

I agree. I can get the general stuff that most guides tell you from the Dungeon Journal. What's really helpful is those little things. A guide-maker that cleared Heroic modes definitely doesn't see the little things that a Normal mode guild runs into. For example, Fatboss suggests just eating the stun from Malakk. For a Heroic guild, this is probably easy. For a Normal guild this is a bad idea. It's extra damage on the tank and reduced tank damage. None of which you want to deal with.

I still like the overviews, but they often miss the important nuance.
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94 Pandaren Warrior
16150
Melee tunnel sul to kill/interrupt.

Range aoe/multi dot and focus empowered as needed
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