Caster Movement DPS disparity

90 Undead Priest
14290
In the current iteration of the game, movement DPS is too punishing to certain specs compared to others.

Some examples of DPS that are not punished are warlocks, hunters, and elemental shamans. All three of these lose close to no DPS when moving. This would be fine if other specs such as shadow or balance didn't lose so much DPS on the move. Mages also face DPS loss when moving but they have a plethora of positioning tools (blink, blazing speed) and can fill the GCDs with instant casts.

Personally, I feel that instead of classes being brought up to warlock/hunter/shaman level of movement DPS, those classes should be brought back in line. The drawback of a caster is that they can't keep DPS up on the move. These classes don't have that drawback.

An alternative is giving the other classes better movement DPS tools. While I feel it is an abomination to DPS on the move so efficiently, certain classes shouldn't have such a clear advantage to others.

Movement DPS for caster will probably be nerfed severely come 6.0 but that is a long time to wait and fixes should be made now to balance out this disparity.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
17885
I remember when MoP was either just launched or just before they wanted to reduce movement while casting as a whole. I'm pretty confident that elemental will maintain it since it was sort of the niche for ele. I can see warlocks taking a hit later to it after they inevitably redo talents again next xpac.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7565
Nerf casting while moving for every caster save for ele, considering it is struggling anyway. I used to want flay while moving, but I don't think it is a great idea now.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
3165
Nerf casting while moving for every caster save for ele, considering it is struggling anyway. I used to want flay while moving, but I don't think it is a great idea now.


Why not just bring other classes up to casting while moving.

Warlocks suffer a stacking movement penalty up to 30% movement speed reduction for casting while moving. I think they will eventually allow all casters to move while casting, because of how much they like putting bad stuff to move out of or good stuff to move into. The ancient days of standing in 1 spot and chain firing spells into the boss are gone.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
17885
05/02/2013 01:48 PMPosted by Lichfreak
Nerf casting while moving for every caster save for ele, considering it is struggling anyway. I used to want flay while moving, but I don't think it is a great idea now.


Why not just bring other classes up to casting while moving.

Warlocks suffer a stacking movement penalty up to 30% movement speed reduction for casting while moving. I think they will eventually allow all casters to move while casting, because of how much they like putting bad stuff to move out of or good stuff to move into. The ancient days of standing in 1 spot and chain firing spells into the boss are gone.


The point of being a caster in most cases is to stand still and hard cast spells that have a greater effect than the instants you can spam while jumping around. That is the trade off. Casting while moving should be a penalty in most cases.
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90 Troll Druid
17085


The point of being a caster in most cases is to stand still and hard cast spells that have a greater effect than the instants you can spam while jumping around. That is the trade off. Casting while moving should be a penalty in most cases. [/quote]Yes, but it is not for a very few classes, and their dps output reflects their ability to nuke on the move.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
Ranged shouldn't have the mobility they currently do. They just can't make sweeping changes to things like that mid expansion as it also impacts PvP performance. It's why they got rid of the Hunter movement penalty and are now removing it from Shaman. Neither are performing wonderfully as is.

Next expansion though I'm expecting it to go back to Wrath where it was standstill shooting with maybe a cooldown for temporary mobility.
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90 Undead Priest
14290
Ranged shouldn't have the mobility they currently do. They just can't make sweeping changes to things like that mid expansion as it also impacts PvP performance. It's why they got rid of the Hunter movement penalty and are now removing it from Shaman. Neither are performing wonderfully as is.

Next expansion though I'm expecting it to go back to Wrath where it was standstill shooting with maybe a cooldown for temporary mobility.


You are correct that ranged shouldn't have that kind of mobility but a few of them do. The rest have to resort to whatever instant cast they have to do mobile dps. This devalues these classes on fights with extensive movement. If they decide to make the next tier of raiding not require as much movement as ToT then things will be fine. But if we see another tier with a lot of movement oriented fights like this one, the specs without movement DPS skills will be devalued regardless of their DPS potential.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
I agree that there needs to be changes, but there won't be any changes until the next expansion. That's just how WoW works, for better or worse.

But I'll be one of the first ones during the next expansion's beta asking for ranged mobility to come down. By lowering ranged mobility, the game can afford to have some of the CC shed as well. Ranged and melee will be better balanced in PvP. Right now, the arms race is getting ridiculous as the amount of instant casts and ranged mobility is going up, requiring melee to need more gap closers and CC to combat it, thus heavily punishing specs that require hardcasting to do their damage like Elemental.

That, along with the absurd burst, is getting the point of WoW being like Dota where EVERYONE is overpowered.
Edited by Bullettime on 5/2/2013 3:56 PM PDT
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
Boomkins need something for movement. They suffer by far the most. The cumulative effects of Nature's Grace and Eclipse make any sort of movement or cancelled casts BRUTALLY punishing (like those wondefully eternal Stafires).
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90 Undead Priest
14290
They don't have to put in large sweeping changes. Having a medium length (a minute or so) CD that allows you to cast a spell on the move would be fine. If not, I hope they can adjust mechanics so that they are not as punishing to casters that can't move.
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100 Human Mage
16060
05/02/2013 04:27 PMPosted by Ricoswaze
They don't have to put in large sweeping changes. Having a medium length (a minute or so) CD that allows you to cast a spell on the move would be fine.


Trust the 93.8% of mages that would tell you that it's not good enough. Ice Flows is now 2 spells while moving on a 45 second cd. It's still garbage.

Changing Glyph of Mind Flay to allow casting while moving instead of a speed increase seems to me like a reasonable QoL improvement. Not sure why Dictainabox disagrees, but my shadow priest is still 85.
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90 Undead Priest
14290
05/02/2013 04:45 PMPosted by Quartus
They don't have to put in large sweeping changes. Having a medium length (a minute or so) CD that allows you to cast a spell on the move would be fine.


Trust the 93.8% of mages that would tell you that it's not good enough. Ice Flows is now 2 spells while moving on a 45 second cd. It's still garbage.

Changing Glyph of Mind Flay to allow casting while moving instead of a speed increase seems to me like a reasonable QoL improvement. Not sure why Dictainabox disagrees, but my shadow priest is still 85.


The reason a lot of priests don't see that happening is because of how strong insanity is in PVP. allowing it to be cast on the move might just push it over the brink of balance. I'm not saying the CD has to be strong. Being able to cast on the move once in a while would help a lot.
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90 Human Warlock
11835
The point of being a caster in most cases is to stand still and hard cast spells that have a greater effect than the instants you can spam while jumping around. That is the trade off. Casting while moving should be a penalty in most cases.


That's not necessarily true. It's an old design philosophy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's still relevant.

By the way, I'll still do more dps on the move with my hardcast spells than I will running around spamming fel flame. The trade off is more dps for a cast bar. Standing still doesn't need to be a part of the equation.
Edited by Suzyq on 5/2/2013 6:29 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
14290
05/02/2013 06:27 PMPosted by Suzyq
The point of being a caster in most cases is to stand still and hard cast spells that have a greater effect than the instants you can spam while jumping around. That is the trade off. Casting while moving should be a penalty in most cases.


That's not necessarily true. It's an old design philosophy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's still relevant.

By the way, I'll still do more dps on the move with my hardcast spells than I will running around spamming fel flame. The trade off is more dps for a cast bar. Standing still doesn't need to be a part of the equation.


Yes, but you can spec into KJC and do 100% of you dps while still moving.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
05/02/2013 06:27 PMPosted by Suzyq
The point of being a caster in most cases is to stand still and hard cast spells that have a greater effect than the instants you can spam while jumping around. That is the trade off. Casting while moving should be a penalty in most cases.


That's not necessarily true. It's an old design philosophy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's still relevant.

By the way, I'll still do more dps on the move with my hardcast spells than I will running around spamming fel flame. The trade off is more dps for a cast bar. Standing still doesn't need to be a part of the equation.


It's true because Ghostcrawler has even stated as such on his twitter feed.
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90 Human Warlock
11835
Yes, but you can spec into KJC and do 100% of you dps while still moving.


And?

I don't think you read my post.

Edit: here's a hint.

It's an old design philosophy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's still relevant.
Edited by Suzyq on 5/2/2013 7:50 PM PDT
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90 Orc Warlock
11170
I wouldn't be too worried, there are 3 constants in life: death, taxes and savage warlock nerfs.
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