WW and Rune of Re-Origination

92 Pandaren Monk
14900
I am a normal raider who plays a Windwalker Monk. I am writing this post hoping that a blue may stumble upon it and shed some light on some questions I have in regards to the trinket Rune of Re-Origination, or as many refer to as RoRo.

I understand the developers use internal testing to determine how abilities, trinkets and game mechanics pan out and we as players are not directly privy (as should be) to those results. The player base has some very intelligent members who create programs and spreadsheets that try to shed light on how class specs can optimally perform under basic conditions.

One such spreadsheet that I have encountered showed hypothetically how a WW Monk could perform with and without a RoRo. It shows the DPS increase along a wide range of Haste/Mastery/Crit ratings based on a Mastery rating just above the other two secondary stats. A modest Haste rating of 6100 with a RoRo shows a DPS increase of 20K. The benefits increases with higher secondary stats as long as they are aligned properly.

I understand this is optimal and these conditions do not exist in game. I do think many of you will agree (especially WW monks who have a RoRo) that its fair to say that this trinket draws a very clear line in the sand between those WW Monks who have a RoRo and those who do not. So now to my questions and anyone is free to chime in.

1. What was the reason behind making a trinket that is so dependent on very precise gemming and reforging for being effective?

2. What was the reason for placing this trinket on the last normal boss in the instance from the standpoint of both Normal and Heroic raiders? (Im assuming different reasons)

3. What was the rationale for creating a trinket that has to be tracked and micromanaged considering the optimal time to use TEB stacks is within seconds before the trinket proc is over?

4. In a way, the RoRo feels required for a class spec that needs the trinket to be a top DPS contributor. Was this intended?

5. I think some players like the challenge of using a trinket that tests their skill cap and allows them to make decisions. For example, should I use TEB even though Im not stacked to 10 when RoRo has procced and hope it procs again soon or another trinket procs? Was this a secondary intent?

5. Will we see more trinkets that behave in a similar fashion going forward?
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1 Human Paladin
0
Blizzard doesnt really care. I dont know why you bother playing windwaker when you can just play a rogue.
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100 Draenei Shaman
4570
All indications are that they didn't know how powerful this one trinket would be for WW, much like they didn't know how important the feather would be for Unholy. Players are inventive and came up with unintended uses.

Imagine you're a dev. You can either hotfix nerf these trinkets or let them stand. If you hotfix nerf mid-patch your customers will get upset; they spent immense amounts of time raiding plus their DKP or whatever to get these trinkets, and they adapted their playstyle (both trinkets require entirely different playstyles) to using them. Taking them away mid-patch seems like the wrong way to go, to me.

So why aren't they being nerfed in 5.3? Because there's no new content in 5.3. No new loot to replace those trinkets. They'll certainly be nerfed in 5.4, unless the new loot is sufficiently powerful that they aren't worth keeping-- and the Rune at least definitely will be, since it scales with gear. The feather, maybe not.
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100 Human Monk
21425
What was the rationale for creating a trinket that has to be tracked and micromanaged considering the optimal time to use TEB stacks is within seconds before the trinket proc is over?


I find it to be a lot of fun.

Will we see more trinkets that behave in a similar fashion going forward?


Hope so.

05/01/2013 03:05 PMPosted by Hopsyn
should I use TEB even though Im not stacked to 10 when RoRo has procced and hope it procs again soon or another trinket procs?


Might as well. At my mastery and reforge level, anything over 5 stacks is worth using it on if I'm not at 10 stacks. You can go a few minutes without another proc. That and if you're any good at pooling energy/chi just before your timer runs out, you're able to EB or pick up energy spheres, you should be near 10 stacks when the ICD is up and the trinket has the potential to proc again.

its fair to say that this trinket draws a very clear line in the sand between those WW Monks who have a RoRo and those who do not


More than a line in the sand. I evolved from a human to a God.
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
I understand this is optimal and these conditions do not exist in game. I do think many of you will agree (especially WW monks who have a RoRo) that its fair to say that this trinket draws a very clear line in the sand between those WW Monks who have a RoRo and those who do not. So now to my questions and anyone is free to chime in.


I feel the same way about the ret 4pc. it seems kinda silly that one piece of gear, or a set bonus, can have such a drastic impact. for ret in the past it was the trinket off putricide in ICC, that made a huge difference.

rune is special because of how it interacts with tigereye brew/mastery. it's like how shard of woe was for arcane mages :p

the problem now is convincing people to drop set bonuses/trinkets that work really well, next tier. will they nerf this tiers stuff? if they do, it will take quite a bit of buffs to make up for the dps gain these items offer. i doubt they will change much at the mid point of the xpac, so they might just leave them alone.

it's a fun trinket, my alt monk doesnt have one yet but I did mess with it on the PTR. I do like how you can maximize these trinkets with good play, like the jikun feather trinket which has a huge stat bonus on the last tick. more interesting than the static stats some trinkets give.
Edited by Sanctifìed on 5/2/2013 4:06 AM PDT
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100 Draenei Shaman
4570
05/02/2013 04:01 AMPosted by Sanctifìed
the problem now is convincing people to drop set bonuses/trinkets that work really well, next tier. will they nerf this tiers stuff?

Looking back to previous patches and expansions, they absolutely will, yes.
Edited by Slant on 5/2/2013 4:05 AM PDT
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
they should make the ret 4pc a baseline proc next tier, it actually makes TV feel like a finisher. wishful thinking, or maybe they could just buff TV.

it is kinda funny though how past tier bonuses have become baseline features: holy power off judgment (DS bonus), wings at 2 min (t14 bonus). will it happen again? who knows.

on topic though, rune is really, really good. it makes you go from clark kent to superman.
Edited by Sanctifìed on 5/2/2013 4:10 AM PDT
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92 Pandaren Monk
14900
More than a line in the sand. I evolved from a human to a God.


Great quote Vex.

I agree that the trinket looks like fun and I wish I had one already. I suppose what others have said in this thread begs to question whether the ability to feel powerful should come from a turning point trinket or set bonus.

I think the developers did a nice job of coming up with something new and interesting to play with and I think most can agree that we want more of that on the horizon. Im not sure balancing a class with a trinket or set bonus in mind is clever though. Im not accusing the developers of directly doing that but I would contend that it feels like without RoRo the WW Monk is half the man (or woman) it could have been.
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55 Worgen Mage
11525
[quote]
the problem now is convincing people to drop set bonuses/trinkets that work really well, next tier. will they nerf this tiers stuff? if they do, it will take quite a bit of buffs to make up for the dps gain these items offer. i doubt they will change much at the mid point of the xpac, so they might just leave them alone.


Generally speakin they don't balance classes around outliers. If Paladins/Monks absolutely needed the damage boost from 4pc, Rune to stay competitive they'd buff them to compensate, but that means they put those in specifically to counter low dps of those specs (doubtful?).

Chances are they'll just nerf Rune and the 4 piece next tier and call it a day unless they determine that WW and Ret absolutely HAVE to have that dps gained from those 2 things in order to stay competitive.
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90 Pandaren Monk
13525
hate this trinket soooooo much
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
The whole idea behind the trinket was just so so bad.

Granted no trinket is always the best but when its just so far out there for some classes under the right circumstances (ie monks) and terrible for others it really needs to be changed, it should have never went live the way it was. All the agility users have some kind of resource mechanic (enh maelstorm procs) they could have just made it increase that by 50% for 12 seconds or w/e but really unless your gemming/forging for the trinket its really really bad, but if you are gemming for it its really really good, it just makes no !@#$ing sense.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
17505
Not everyone values their "resources" the same (IE, 50% more energy would be pretty much pointless on WW, because they already struggle to use all of their energy as it is), so a trinket that interacted with them would be just as likely to be overpowered for some specs but weak for others, unless you gave it spec specific proc rates to account for this, but they could have done that with rune in the first place. Any trinket that just doesn't just provide stats has a chance of having weird interactions with specific classes.

Its fine for a trinket to be a bit experimental. There are lots of good trinkets this tier. Its okay if some specs don't like one of them. I'd rather they make things like rune than always have bland trinkets.
Edited by Asthas on 5/2/2013 11:57 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Warrior
17505
There is something to be said about its applicability being rather narrow (I'll take your word for it that WW is the only spec that gets a benefit at all from it, and I mean at all, not that it isn't their BiS), but I don't think its a problem for the trinket to encourage gearing changes and management. Tier bonuses often alter rotations or gearing choices (not always, of course). I don't see it as such a bad thing for a trinket to sometimes do the same.

Again, I'd rather see trinkets like rune instead of every trinket being passive stats + proc stats because they are afraid that anything else might cause a problem. It keeps the game fresh.

In the case of rune, I think the idea is fantastic and very interesting. In practice, it perhaps could have benefited from spec specific proc rates like the legendary metas.
Edited by Asthas on 5/3/2013 12:08 AM PDT
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95 Worgen Druid
16155
05/02/2013 11:52 PMPosted by Kalorea
It's bad design when the trinket is a negative dps gain over an empty slot for any class/spec other than a WW monk purposely gaming the trinket by canceling the proc after using tiger eye brew.


It's good for feral and (I'm told) subtlety. Also, the proc can't be canceled.
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100 Draenei Shaman
4570
Its fine for a trinket to be a bit experimental. There are lots of good trinkets this tier. Its okay if some specs don't like one of them. I'd rather they make things like rune than always have bland trinkets.

I'm right with you there, but that's not the problem. The problem is when one piece of gear is so powerful that it defines an entire spec's performance. It's heartbreaking when it doesn't drop.

Gear should be powerful. Different specs should want different gear, and it's OK for one piece to be particularly drool-worthy. Just not to this degree.
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90 Draenei Monk
7675
Agreed my male draenei cries each week it doesnt drop. No one wants to see a male draenei let alone a crying one.
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