When can I go Arcane?

90 Pandaren Mage
12505
Just picked up my mage after letting it sit for quite a while at 90. Last I played it Fire was extremely OP and ended up taking a load of nerfs until now.

So, I tried out fire, wasn't a huge fan of it anymore. Frost is ok provided you can get a lot of procs but the pet is SO annoying. So I was thinking about giving arcane a try. I'm pretty undergeared, only barely being able to make it into LFRs. If I try Arcane now is it going to suck major butt? Help is appreciated!
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Never in 5.2.
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90 Pandaren Mage
12505
Not helpful, not reason why you feel that way, and is obviously wrong because some mages DO choose Arcane in 5.2. In all, your post is rubbish.
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You don't have the gear for fire so you wouldn't have had a clue about how powerful/weak fire is when you tried it.

There's this really neat glyph that makes your elemental just a FoF proc generator. Maybe you should figure it out.

Actually, just go arcane and have fun with your subpar DPS.
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90 Worgen Mage
9580
from my experiences arcane couldnt pull great to numbers until i received the 4 pc bonus from this tier.granted i did run arcane on horidon and council since if you are good at multi dotting you will be able to generally keep your 4 stack a bit longer and dump more missles into packs and barrage is really good here as well obv.

but ive tried all 3 specs with a ilvl of 515 and they all do very similar dmg but there are ways to pull more out of each spec from specific mechainics and whatnot. i personally prefer frost spec to the other 2 from playstyle but i want to progress so i try things out alot,and so far from what ive seen fire gives you the ability to do better dmg at the risk of doing only slightly less dmg given rng and frost/arcane are more stable in reguards to steady dmg.

hope this helps
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90 Troll Mage
15865
Arcane is already being used on Ra'den due to the very small amount of movement used in that fight. Arcane honestly does do good damage, but I'd imagine it's harder to pull off on some of the ToT fights than it would be to play as Fire/Frost.

Audacity is a good example of a mage that's trying heroic progression as arcane. He streams Wednesday/Sunday/Monday for raids.

http://www.twitch.tv/matto_eh
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100 Blood Elf Mage
13035
Never in 5.2.


I feel like the majority of your posts are unfriendly and not very helpful. Overall, you seem to be a rude dude with a crude attitude.
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95 Undead Mage
15700
So if I'm reading the OP right, you want to try arcane because you don't like fire or frost's playstyle anymore? Or their damage is insufficient?

Anyway, arcane is boring, but some mages do well with it in current, heroic content. I think maximizing dps as arcane can be a challenge in current raids. Perhaps a challenge that will hold your interest in the mage class?

Best.
Edited by Aarÿn on 4/28/2013 2:06 PM PDT
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04/28/2013 11:27 AMPosted by Outcold
Never in 5.2.


I feel like the majority of your posts are unfriendly and not very helpful. Overall, you seem to be a rude dude with a crude attitude.


Did I ruffle your feathers?

Good. :)

Go ahead and look at the OP's gear and then recommend arcane to him. Actually, support his claim that he tried out fire and wasn't impressed with its results. Who knew you would be unimpressed with fire at 25.12% max crit?

No really: take all the time you need. I'll wait.
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90 Human Mage
17330
It seems like a lot of nonsense to assume Arcane was out of the ballpark at 5.2. It's easy to see why Arcane might be passed over in favor of frost, but the fact is, Arcane is still very powerful, provided you don't have the mentality that the class is a 1 button class.

So, the smokescreen was, since frost got buffed and arcane got nerfed...badly (not as badly as you think) the true path was set...frost, because it was buffed. I don't think I'll be falling for this trick, simply because people who pvp already find frost to be OP, so, I feel like the situation is one like "enjoy it while it lasts...the pvp aspect of this game ensures it is going to be crippled soon." Hell yeah...you don't think the whiny little crybabies of this game aren't going to whine to blizzard about frost enough to cause them to nerf frost? You're out of your mind. Do I think it's right? Hell no I don't. Mages are supposed to be powerfully offensive, and should be such in all specs. Since this game is based and formulated around 2 mutually exclusive aspects, pvp and pve functioning at the same damn time, I simply don't see it happening.

You might want to do some research, though. Don't take my word for it. I am not affiliated with Blizzard, so what I say is my opinion of the potential and what I believe to be likely future actions. And you might want to not copy my talents unless you know why I took them.
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2 Undead Priest
0
Not helpful, not reason why you feel that way, and is obviously wrong because some mages DO choose Arcane in 5.2. In all, your post is rubbish.


You can go arcane whenever you want. It's damage will be behind frost and fire until you get heroic BIS gear and, even then, will only be higher in a Patchwerk type fight which does not exist.

So, if you are asking when does arcane compete with fire or frost, it doesn't against raid most current bosses because of the movement. If you are asking permission to play a spec you like, then I give you my permission, to the extent I can.
Edited by Jawbraker on 4/29/2013 4:32 AM PDT
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Anyone paying attention to the Mage class knows that very few Mages are playing arcane as a competitive raiding spec in 5.2. It's simply not viable given the heavy movement boss mechanics.
Be whatever you want in LFR. It's not like it matters. 7 stacks on Lei Shen and everyone wins.
Frost is still the best choice while gearing to 522.
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100 Goblin Mage
16885
04/28/2013 11:27 AMPosted by Outcold
Never in 5.2.


I feel like the majority of your posts are unfriendly and not very helpful. Overall, you seem to be a rude dude with a crude attitude.


1993, hooooo!

But yeah, if you have to move with Arcane, you're done. It's over.

The majority of fights in ToT require not just some movement, but a lot of movement.

Like, sure, if you managed to get into a guild with Ra Den, yeah try out Arcane on that fight. But realistically speaking that's not even close to a good enough reason to use the spec right now, until Blizzard does something about its movement issues.
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This is kind of funny.

We're not talking about arcane with very high gear levels. We're talking about arcane as it pertains to the OP.

So you suggest getting pretty high level gear before arcane can compete again with frost and fire, right? Well, do you think the OP will be getting said gear before 5.3 hits? I don't think so.

I'd personally love to go back to arcane myself. I detest frost in both aspects of the game.

Do I want to play a spec with a rotation that makes me want to pull my hair out AND lower my DPS at the same time? No.

But if you're just going to do LFR, go naked and melee with a staff. It won't make a difference.

04/29/2013 06:59 AMPosted by Alustreil
Never in 5.2.


says the LFR hero


Who better to answer a LF raider's question than a person who does LFR.

Besides, you seem to be just barely a step above LFR hero status yourself looking at your guild's progress. Just becoming active in ToT, huh?

Some of us don't have the luxury to devote even a set amount of time to WoW a week. Doesn't really require current raiding experience to see how lackluster arcane is...especially on WoL. You'll notice something interesting, though: all the top ranking arcane mages seem to be from Korea or China. What are they hiding? :)

TLDR: Never in 5.2.

It seems like a lot of nonsense to assume Arcane was out of the ballpark at 5.2. It's easy to see why Arcane might be passed over in favor of frost, but the fact is, Arcane is still very powerful, provided you don't have the mentality that the class is a 1 button class.

So, the smokescreen was, since frost got buffed and arcane got nerfed...badly (not as badly as you think) the true path was set...frost, because it was buffed. I don't think I'll be falling for this trick, simply because people who pvp already find frost to be OP, so, I feel like the situation is one like "enjoy it while it lasts...the pvp aspect of this game ensures it is going to be crippled soon." Hell yeah...you don't think the whiny little crybabies of this game aren't going to whine to blizzard about frost enough to cause them to nerf frost? You're out of your mind. Do I think it's right? Hell no I don't. Mages are supposed to be powerfully offensive, and should be such in all specs. Since this game is based and formulated around 2 mutually exclusive aspects, pvp and pve functioning at the same damn time, I simply don't see it happening.

You might want to do some research, though. Don't take my word for it. I am not affiliated with Blizzard, so what I say is my opinion of the potential and what I believe to be likely future actions. And you might want to not copy my talents unless you know why I took them.


Care to share your rotation/method? I'm interested to know which is more effective for arcane now days.
Edited by Hakuren on 4/29/2013 10:59 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Mage
13475
I just did a full clear ToT normal mode as arcane.
I found it fun and very competitive. If you enjoy arcane and can play it well you’ll do just fine or you’ll be on top for many of the fights.
I was ilvl 511 until this week I got my 4 set.

Play what you enjoy because you pay the $15 bucks a month. In the end you’ll be happy and still put up great numbers.
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90 Human Mage
17330


It seems like a lot of nonsense to assume Arcane was out of the ballpark at 5.2. It's easy to see why Arcane might be passed over in favor of frost, but the fact is, Arcane is still very powerful, provided you don't have the mentality that the class is a 1 button class.

So, the smokescreen was, since frost got buffed and arcane got nerfed...badly (not as badly as you think) the true path was set...frost, because it was buffed. I don't think I'll be falling for this trick, simply because people who pvp already find frost to be OP, so, I feel like the situation is one like "enjoy it while it lasts...the pvp aspect of this game ensures it is going to be crippled soon." Hell yeah...you don't think the whiny little crybabies of this game aren't going to whine to blizzard about frost enough to cause them to nerf frost? You're out of your mind. Do I think it's right? Hell no I don't. Mages are supposed to be powerfully offensive, and should be such in all specs. Since this game is based and formulated around 2 mutually exclusive aspects, pvp and pve functioning at the same damn time, I simply don't see it happening.

You might want to do some research, though. Don't take my word for it. I am not affiliated with Blizzard, so what I say is my opinion of the potential and what I believe to be likely future actions. And you might want to not copy my talents unless you know why I took them.


Care to share your rotation/method? I'm interested to know which is more effective for arcane now days.


For starters, bear in mind, you are a dps with limited mobility, but that doesn't have to make the difference for you. Shadow priests are only slightly more mobile than you are, and I don't see people kicking them out of raids.

First of all, my talents reflect a semi-mobile platform. Use blink and only move as much as you absolutely must. So, use incanter's ward instead of Rune of Power. Never activate it. The +6% Spell Damage and passive mana regen is more useful than having to cast runes every time you have to move. If you know you're going to be in a patchwerk fight (not likely) then switch out if you choose.

First tier: Presence of mind was chosen because it is the only talent that is a dps increase (even if only marginally) Use it w/ arcane blast on CD.

Second Tier: Flameglow was selected because it is a passive shield. Is it necessarily better than ice barrier? Well, who the hell knows, probably not, but considering I need all the uptime I can get, I simply cannot be bothered to waste the GCD or the mana to cast it, so there you go.

Third Tier: Ring of Frost was chosen. It has the capability of freezing multiple adds if used properly. This talent is marginal, though, so if you would rather take frostjaw, by all means.... Ice ward... I can't find many practical applications of it for PvE. At least not enough to justify its use...

Fourth tier: I chose Greater Invisibilty over Cauterize. If you are struck by a boss to trigger Cauterize, you'll likely be killed the next time he hits you. Greater Invisibility does 2 things I find more desirable. 1. It creates a 90% damage reduction field and removes 2 DoT's, and 2. It drops all threat. It is therefore, in my opinion, more useful. I'll never take Cauterize over Greater Invis for that reason.

Fifth Tier: You're gonna have to make the call here. These are offensive weapons for you to decide how they are going to be used best. I default Nether Tempest, mostly out of laziness. I hate rearranging my bars and wasting tomes, but you might not mind, so, use them as you decide you need them.

I've already talked about Incanter's Ward. It makes up the basis of the platform.

The idea of this platform is to never go below 75% - 80% mana. So stack that mastery....and always use mage armor. My build is currently using Int over mastery gems; we'll call that an experiment for the time being.

Glyphs of Importance: Bear in mind, Glyphs are mostly a joke in my opinion. But a couple stand out as good to use.

1. Glyph of Arcane power. All you're doing here is making Arcane power last longer, so you can do more with it in a burn phase. It also works out better with Alter Time, when used strategically with it.

2. Glyph of Arcane Explosion. By extending the radius of AE, it is a dps increase, potentially. This is however the one I would change in favor of something more useful.

3. Glyph of Mana Gem. Making a Mana Gem hold 10 charges is more awesome than one might think. Macro this ability to your Arcane Barrage, so it uses the gem every time it is up.

4. Glyph of Mirror Images. Just because.

5. Glyph of Momentum. I said Blink was an important part of this build, so you can get where you want quickly and resume your business.

Don't even think about using the Glyph of Evocation. Remember, you're not supposed to get below 75%, so using an evo is basically going to be useless.

1. Keep your bomb spell up.
2. You will be using Arcane blast to fish for missile procs.
3. When you get to 4 stacks of Arcane charges, if you have no charges, use fire blast to fish a charge. Or Nether Tempest (one reason I keep this one instead of the other 2).
4. If you have 1 missile proc, use fire blast to fish another one and then dump your missiles.
5. If you have 2 missile procs, and alter time (and arcane power) are up, use arcane power, then alter time, and dump both missile procs and follow up with an arcane barrage. If you can cast anything else, cast arcane blast.
6. If you have 2 missile procs up, and alter time is on CD, use one missile proc, and follow up with a fire blast to fish up another missile proc, then dump all missile procs.

Do NOT:

Ever use Evocation. Just back off a little on your stacks. Let it build up. Or, if you feel you must. Use it to get to 75% and then stop.

Never use missiles without 4 stacks. This hurts dps more than you might think.

If you have 4 stacks of Arcane blast, and something has you creeping back to 100% mana, go ahead and cast it again. Maybe twice. If you have your mana gem back up, and will use it when you barrage, use it 3 times. You'll be fine.

This isn't exhaustive, but it will get you started.....
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Thank you, Mel.

04/30/2013 12:47 AMPosted by Melûsine
For starters, bear in mind, you are a dps with limited mobility, but that doesn't have to make the difference for you. Shadow priests are only slightly more mobile than you are, and I don't see people kicking them out of raids.


Arcane wasn't terribly mobile in 5.1. Scorch was nice..but more for maintaining mana. I don't mind the turret style. Arcane forces you to think ahead. Reminds me of chess. Much more fun to play than frost...but the current arcane rotation (at least, recommended by icyveins) puts me to sleep.

First of all, my talents reflect a semi-mobile platform. Use blink and only move as much as you absolutely must. So, use incanter's ward instead of Rune of Power. Never activate it. The +6% Spell Damage and passive mana regen is more useful than having to cast runes every time you have to move. If you know you're going to be in a patchwerk fight (not likely) then switch out if you choose.


Many people say just stick with RoP. In fact, Icy does as well. The only thing preventing me from trying out arc again is the question between whether I use invocation or RoP.

First tier: Presence of mind was chosen because it is the only talent that is a dps increase (even if only marginally) Use it w/ arcane blast on CD.


If we're hard-pressed for movement, wouldn't floes or blazing be a better option?

Fifth Tier: You're gonna have to make the call here. These are offensive weapons for you to decide how they are going to be used best. I default Nether Tempest, mostly out of laziness. I hate rearranging my bars and wasting tomes, but you might not mind, so, use them as you decide you need them.


I think NT would still be beneficial for arcane with mastery stacking.

The idea of this platform is to never go below 75% - 80% mana. So stack that mastery....and always use mage armor. My build is currently using Int over mastery gems; we'll call that an experiment for the time being.


This is another thing that confused me. Icy recommends using frost armor at a certain gear level. Seems kind of odd to abandon mage armor as arcane.

Don't even think about using the Glyph of Evocation. Remember, you're not supposed to get below 75%, so using an evo is basically going to be useless.


This is true if you chose IW but with RoP, the self-heal while standing in the rune is very nice I think.

1. Keep your bomb spell up.
2. You will be using Arcane blast to fish for missile procs.
3. When you get to 4 stacks of Arcane charges, if you have no charges, use fire blast to fish a charge. Or Nether Tempest (one reason I keep this one instead of the other 2).
4. If you have 1 missile proc, use fire blast to fish another one and then dump your missiles.
5. If you have 2 missile procs, and alter time (and arcane power) are up, use arcane power, then alter time, and dump both missile procs and follow up with an arcane barrage. If you can cast anything else, cast arcane blast.
6. If you have 2 missile procs up, and alter time is on CD, use one missile proc, and follow up with a fire blast to fish up another missile proc, then dump all missile procs.

Do NOT:

Ever use Evocation. Just back off a little on your stacks. Let it build up. Or, if you feel you must. Use it to get to 75% and then stop.

Never use missiles without 4 stacks. This hurts dps more than you might think.

If you have 4 stacks of Arcane blast, and something has you creeping back to 100% mana, go ahead and cast it again. Maybe twice. If you have your mana gem back up, and will use it when you barrage, use it 3 times. You'll be fine.

This isn't exhaustive, but it will get you started.....


See, this rotation just doesn't seem appealing to me. Essentially boils down to AB to 4 stacks, if no missiles, dump with barrage. Where's the challenge? Mana management? Well we have gems and RoP should sustain us if we don't blast past our fourth stack.

I can't fathom why the OP thinks arcane would be more fun than frost/fire as it is now.
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90 Troll Mage
12450
There's this really neat glyph that makes your elemental just a FoF proc generator. Maybe you should figure it out.

You know they got rid of the ability for your elemental to proc FoF quite a while ago right? Water Elemental is just a giant waste of space that does an extra 5-10% of your dps. We all wish he'd just go away and Blizz would give us Freeze plus a little buff.

04/29/2013 10:56 AMPosted by Hakuren
I detest frost in both aspects of the game.

"But I'll still play them because that's what the interwebs told me to do"...

Just becoming active in ToT, huh?

Perhaps you might want to get some normals done this expansion, then you can pay others out for lack of progression...

As far as the OP goes, I recommend playing whatever spec you like the most. As others have said, if you're good with arcane, you can do competitive DPS. Frost is probably the easiest at lower iLvl, and Fire does have its merit after a certain level of stats.

If you're looking to start normals, your guild will probably want you to go frost, just because it scales better at lower gear, but if you're just doing LFR (and don't forget, this will be with other dps over 520 so don't worry about comparing to them) then I say give arcane a go. Essentially, the more you play the spec, the better you'll become, and the better your dps will be.
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04/30/2013 08:25 AMPosted by Tuckletuts
You know they got rid of the ability for your elemental to proc FoF quite a while ago right? Water Elemental is just a giant waste of space that does an extra 5-10% of your dps. We all wish he'd just go away and Blizz would give us Freeze plus a little buff.


Oblivious statement #1.

Freeze procs FoF. I don't want to insult your intelligence by assuming you know that trash and bosses with freezable adds can provide the necessary FoF procs via freeze, but I'm going to just do it anyways because you seem to think I meant that the WE procs FoF with his casts.

"But I'll still play them because that's what the interwebs told me to do"...


No I'll actually use the spec that has the best DPS output for my gear level just like anyone else should do.

Perhaps you might want to get some normals done this expansion, then you can pay others out for lack of progression...


I'll make you a deal: I'll go complete some normal modes if you go work full time while pursuing a masters degree in electrical engineering (or any field of engineering).

Since the later will most likely never happen, I think I'll be just fine sticking to LFR while you struggle with college algebra.

As far as the OP goes, I recommend playing whatever spec you like the most. As others have said, if you're good with arcane, you can do competitive DPS. Frost is probably the easiest at lower iLvl, and Fire does have its merit after a certain level of stats.


Actually, what most have said is you spec frost early on and arcane at higher gear levels which implies to the OP that he/she will be speccing frost unless he does LFR. In which case, no one cares what your spec is.

You can go arcane whenever you want. It's damage will be behind frost and fire until you get heroic BIS gear and, even then, will only be higher in a Patchwerk type fight which does not exist.

Anyone paying attention to the Mage class knows that very few Mages are playing arcane as a competitive raiding spec in 5.2. It's simply not viable given the heavy movement boss mechanics.
Be whatever you want in LFR. It's not like it matters. 7 stacks on Lei Shen and everyone wins.
Frost is still the best choice while gearing to 522.

But yeah, if you have to move with Arcane, you're done. It's over.

The majority of fights in ToT require not just some movement, but a lot of movement.

Like, sure, if you managed to get into a guild with Ra Den, yeah try out Arcane on that fight. But realistically speaking that's not even close to a good enough reason to use the spec right now, until Blizzard does something about its movement issues.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8728853632
Yeah, as soon as more people have 520 gear there will be more Fire Mages. Arcane, probably not making a large scale comeback anytime soon.

Because i don't want to ruin the fun for the 24 other people in my raid who have to pick up my slack because my dps isn't as high as it could be.


Now, back to work.
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