Cost of Blacksmithing VS Cost of 522 Gear

90 Pandaren Monk
8060
Hello all,

I've managed to get Blacksmithing 1-600 recently and I believe I've noticed something rather disturbing. So to make the real nice 522 ilvl Blacksmithing gear, normally you're looking at crafting with multiple Haunting Spirits. So, obviously this is going to be a long and complicated process.

Now lets think. On Bladefist-US the cost of ONE haunting spirit is roughly 12000g. For the 522 Plate helm I can make, it requires 8 of these, as well as a few other pretty tough mats to obtain. Lets say you were purchase these materials, as they are very hard to actually farm. If you were going to sell the ilvl 522 gear, I'm relatively sure it would cost more than leveling Blacksmithing 1-600 by itself.

Doesn't that kind of show some kind of an issue here?
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9480
Not really, it's the same as pretty much every other tier.

Raiders gear up, disenchant the duplicate loot or loot that nobody can use to get the current tier's crafting material, then use those materials to fill in gear gaps. If none are needed, they end up on the AH for people to buy.

Craftable 522s are not meant to be super-common or cheap.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
5895
Working as intended as stated above. 522 gear is for raiders to get people up to spec for the achievements and hard modes in raids. It isn't meant for the general population. As time goes on, it will become more available though.

If you have recipes, you should make it known you have the recipes and will craft the items with the customer's materials and a set fee.
Edited by Phopaw on 4/29/2013 8:55 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
15315
Not sure what you think the issue is. There are many recipes that will cost more than it cost to level up a profession.
Jeweled Onyx Panther
Depleted-Kyparium Rocket
Just to name a few. I've actually crafted a couple of the 522's on my blacksmith for people I raid with to fill in slots we can't seem to get to drop.
Edited by Trivi on 4/29/2013 8:58 AM PDT
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if you find haunting spirits difficult to obtain its pretty safe to say that the items crafted with them are not intended for you.
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
Not really, it's the same as pretty much every other tier.

Raiders gear up, disenchant the duplicate loot or loot that nobody can use to get the current tier's crafting material, then use those materials to fill in gear gaps. If none are needed, they end up on the AH for people to buy.

Craftable 522s are not meant to be super-common or cheap.


They don't have to be "super common" or "cheap" but they don't have to be exorbitantly expensive or take 30 freaken days to churn one out either. Haunting spirits right now are super expensive. Just like blood spirits. Then they crashed, even before the patch that made the gear obsolete. Why? Cause its a terrible terrible design. By the time you start d/eing gear that nobody wants(especially 25 mans), you've already got what you need and the spirits are near worthless and only good for catch up gear.
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90 Orc Warrior
13615
04/29/2013 10:49 AMPosted by Herethebeef
Why? Cause its a terrible terrible design.


Go on the PTR. Find out how the professions are changing next patch. Go to those forums and complain. That way developers will hear you. Don't wait two months into the content and come crying about the way things are. Its like complaining about your elected officials but not voting.
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90 Orc Warrior
16385
The best part was how tailors was able to start working towards getting their 522 patterns weeks before blacksmiths were.

RNG is RNG sure, but my tailor had 3 of the 4 522 patterns before my blacksmith could even do his first CD, due to the Lightning Steel Ingot being gated behind the different stages of the Isle of Thunder.

My Leatherworker got his world drop CDs within minutes of the patch going live.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
16070
04/29/2013 11:27 AMPosted by Arkthan
Why? Cause its a terrible terrible design.


Go on the PTR. Find out how the professions are changing next patch. Go to those forums and complain. That way developers will hear you. Don't wait two months into the content and come crying about the way things are. Its like complaining about your elected officials but not voting.


Excellent advice. That's what I keep telling people. Go to the PTR forums where they are actively looking for feedback on proposed changes. You need to talk to the folks who are impletmenting any changes.

That being said, I'm fine with the cost of 522 gear because it is meant for raid teams. What I don't like about it is that they gave the patterns to virtually everyone. In the past, when they were available for raiders only, people that did not raid and had no intention to raid would not acquire the patterns. This means that they wouldn't be fretting about something that they could not make because the items aren't really intended for them. I'm not out making Jeweled Onyx Panther because of the cost versus how quickly it might sell.

I do think it was a bit unfair for Blacksmiths to have to wait for their patterns long after tailors and leatherworkers were able to access theirs due to "flavor." That is the part that seems a bit unbalanced but I understand that they were going with the story aspects over ease of play. I'd release all the patterns at the same time...in raids, where they belong.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
5895
They don't have to be "super common" or "cheap" but they don't have to be exorbitantly expensive or take 30 freaken days to churn one out either. Haunting spirits right now are super expensive. Just like blood spirits. Then they crashed, even before the patch that made the gear obsolete. Why? Cause its a terrible terrible design. By the time you start d/eing gear that nobody wants(especially 25 mans), you've already got what you need and the spirits are near worthless and only good for catch up gear.


Seems two things were expected that didn't happen....

1) More people would engage on the island and unlock it faster.
2) People would continue with dailies on the island after reaching exalted with their faction.

If either of these happened then gating access to forge would have been less of an issue. However without incentive, people aren't going to do either of those things. In Burning Crusade and the Isle of Quel'Danas had better incentives. For instance, you were more likely to travel to the island for gathering and running the 5-man dungeon and simply do dailies as you waited for a group to form. Plus it took longer to get reputation out there.

As a result of these assumptions and faults in them, Blacksmiths suffered. Without additional dungeons or scenarios and the addition of the LFD/LFR tools, there is no reason to go to the island and help your server community prosper. Whether it was oversight or intentional, hopefully they resolve it on the next set of gated content.
Edited by Phopaw on 4/29/2013 1:15 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
04/29/2013 11:27 AMPosted by Arkthan
Why? Cause its a terrible terrible design.


Go on the PTR. Find out how the professions are changing next patch. Go to those forums and complain. That way developers will hear you. Don't wait two months into the content and come crying about the way things are. Its like complaining about your elected officials but not voting.


You assume I didn't. You assume other people didn't. And just like elected officials just because you elected them doesn't mean they will listen to your complaints and act according. You point is bad, makes baseless assumptions, and is moot at the same time. Grats.
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
04/29/2013 01:14 PMPosted by Phopaw
They don't have to be "super common" or "cheap" but they don't have to be exorbitantly expensive or take 30 freaken days to churn one out either. Haunting spirits right now are super expensive. Just like blood spirits. Then they crashed, even before the patch that made the gear obsolete. Why? Cause its a terrible terrible design. By the time you start d/eing gear that nobody wants(especially 25 mans), you've already got what you need and the spirits are near worthless and only good for catch up gear.


Seems two things were expected that didn't happen....

1) More people would engage on the island and unlock it faster.
2) People would continue with dailies on the island after reaching exalted with their faction.

If either of these happened then gating access to forge would have been less of an issue. However without incentive, people aren't going to do either of those things. In Burning Crusade and the Isle of Quel'Danas had better incentives. For instance, you were more likely to travel to the island for gathering and running the 5-man dungeon and simply do dailies as you waited for a group to form. Plus it took longer to get reputation out there.

As a result of these assumptions and faults in them, Blacksmiths suffered. Without additional dungeons or scenarios and the addition of the LFD/LFR tools, there is no reason to go to the island and help your server community prosper. Whether it was oversight or intentional, hopefully they resolve it on the next set of gated content.


I got a simple solution. No more gated content.

Also, its stupid to say the problem with blacksmiths was that the isle took to long unlock. Even if unlocked that week. Or was unlocked/available the first day. It still would have taken a total of 30 days before any blacksmith could churned out a 502 weapon. It is simply a bad design.
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Doesn't that kind of show some kind of an issue here?


No. Nearly every profession has items like this.

Alchemy has Vial of the Sands (roughly 5k to level alch, and 28k to make the Vial)
Inscription has Darkmoon Decks (4kish to make a deck, the same to level the trade)
Tailoring and Leatherworking are in the same boat with 522 armor
Engineering has the World Spinner and Rocket, both of which cost multiple times what the profession does.
Jewelcrafting has the panthers.

I guess Enchanting is the exception.
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90 Orc Warrior
13615
You assume I didn't. You assume other people didn't. And just like elected officials just because you elected them doesn't mean they will listen to your complaints and act according. You point is bad, makes baseless assumptions, and is moot at the same time. Grats.


Did you try out the PTR and voice your preferences on the forums? If so link me them. If you didn't then you have no complaint here or in all the other threads where you are crying about how bad smithing is. With all of your complaints its a wonder you have a blacksmith. Elected officials and Blizzard development might not listen to every complaint, but they cant listen when there aren't any. Find out in advance what will happen, complain then. Not two months after the fact. By then its too late.
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90 Human Paladin
aus
18475
By the time you start d/eing gear that nobody wants(especially 25 mans), you've already got what you need and the spirits are near worthless and only good for catch up gea


Not true in 10 mans, we killed horridon for the first time and de'ed both drops. This week at 9/12 we de'ed 8/18 drops.

Find out in advance what will happen, complain then. Not two months after the fact. By then its too late.


TBH in other players opinions their is almost never a right time. In beta for mop their was for example a fairly hot issue in regard to healing that was raised many times.

1 week after the last thread that was answered with its too soon to talk about this, wait for healing balanceing the next thread was they have already done the healer balancing its too late to talk about it. 7 short days:)
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80 Blood Elf Death Knight
11715

I got a simple solution. No more gated content.

Also, its stupid to say the problem with blacksmiths was that the isle took to long unlock. Even if unlocked that week. Or was unlocked/available the first day. It still would have taken a total of 30 days before any blacksmith could churned out a 502 weapon. It is simply a bad design.


You claim it is bad design because you disagree with the intent. I find the timing of the weapons to be appropriate and so consider it excellent design.

The limitation was frustrating but in e broader context fair since we did get the weapons as well as the pop craftables.

As far as haunting spirit crafted items their availability only increases and prices only drop so again it seems to be p,laying out as intended.

Almost forgot my initial point. Comparing the cost of levelling a profession to the cost of a crafted item is only reasonable if the profession confers a bop item and you compare int to the cost of acquiring the same item which is boe
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
Did you try out the PTR and voice your preferences on the forums? If so link me them. If you didn't then you have no complaint here or in all the other threads where you are crying about how bad smithing is. With all of your complaints its a wonder you have a blacksmith. Elected officials and Blizzard development might not listen to every complaint, but they cant listen when there aren't any. Find out in advance what will happen, complain then. Not two months after the fact. By then its too late.


The MoP beta forums are gone smarty pants. And even if they weren't, like I would go to dig around for year old posts. What would I stand to gain, would you suddenly admit you were wrong and apologize? Doubt it. And if it were proven that I did complain, what would that change? Nothing.

And thats stupid logic you have to complain beforehand and if you didn't then you have to accept the way things are. As if they couldn't change things if they really wanted to. As if they couldn't add spirits to the VP vendor, o wait, they could, cause they did that with blood spirits. And complaining now might not change this patch, but it could change a future patch.
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And thats stupid logic you have to complain beforehand and if you didn't then you have to accept the way things are. As if they couldn't change things if they really wanted to. As if they couldn't add spirits to the VP vendor, o wait, they could, cause they did that with blood spirits. And complaining now might not change this patch, but it could change a future patch.


I suspect one can now purchase blood spirit because they're no longer used to make the best gear. I would guess then that the same will happen with haunted spirits when something replaces it.
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
You claim it is bad design because you disagree with the intent. I find the timing of the weapons to be appropriate and so consider it excellent design.


"Working as intended" is not a defense of a bad design. And you just say ou find the timing of the weapons to be appropriate? Based on what? Why would the weapons being available day 1 be "inappropriate"? It would have been a boom to the economy. Now its a dud.

04/29/2013 10:27 PMPosted by Sêbastian
The limitation was frustrating but in e broader context fair since we did get the weapons as well as the pop craftables.


How is it fair because we got "pop craftables"? Who cares? Another terrible design.

As far as haunting spirit crafted items their availability only increases and prices only drop so again it seems to be p,laying out as intended.


Again, "working as intended" is not a defense and does not make it a good design.
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
04/29/2013 11:12 PMPosted by Consortium
And thats stupid logic you have to complain beforehand and if you didn't then you have to accept the way things are. As if they couldn't change things if they really wanted to. As if they couldn't add spirits to the VP vendor, o wait, they could, cause they did that with blood spirits. And complaining now might not change this patch, but it could change a future patch.


I suspect one can now purchase blood spirit because they're no longer used to make the best gear. I would guess then that the same will happen with haunted spirits when something replaces it.


/facepalm

The point I was making he was saying that my time to complain was before it went in, as if they can't change anything once its in or rectify a situation. I just proved that they could at will.
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