Resto Shamans Need Some Buffs

90 Dwarf Shaman
9940
First off I want to state I very rarely post on the forums (I think this is maybe my third time to post here in over 5 years). The purpose of this post is to discuss the problem that exists for shamans in 10 man raids.

I think everyone already realizes that shamans are at the bottom of the barrel with resto druids in terms of healing. One of the things I have noticed in reading the forums is that people tend to focus on what the high end raiders are doing, and say things like its ok you bring utility (to be honest it is usually pallies and disc priests saying this, must be nice to be at the top) .

I raid in a small guild that that did pretty well in the first set of raids in mop, but we are floundering with the new raids, and I believe it is due to our healing set up which consists of two shamans and whatever third healer we pick up that week. Guilds that have pallies and disc priests have a much easier time progressing in the new raids as compared to a set up like ours with two shamans and that isn't ok. Some might say well just recruit some other healing classes, well my answer to that is twofold, first off we are friends that raid together and for smaller guilds recruiting is not as easy as some might think.

Personally I cannot fathom why Blizzard refuses to recognize that there is a problem with a large part of their player base who play resto shammys, and from a business standpoint leaving a part of your customer base out in the cold is not smart.

What are my options? Well as I see it there are several.

1) Re-roll (this is not going to happen, every healer should be equally effective in the role of healing and if they are not it is Blizzards job to fix it)

2) Bench myself if the guild can find healers to replace me that are more effective. I do not want my class to be what is holding back my friends with respect to raiding, but this is totally up to the guild leader.

3) Quit the game. I have considered this because a game is supposed to be fun, and if I find myself getting frustrated there is not much point in playing anymore.
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1 Human Paladin
0
I fully agree. Getting my !@# handed to me in recount by a lower geared healer is embarrassing, although I know I cannot control it I have to live with it. I have serious consideration on rerolling another toon because my numbers are not as NEARLY as good as they should be. I'm not a bad play. I know my stuff. but trying to maximize and get numbers that are not there is very frustrating!
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90 Pandaren Shaman
2610
^
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90 Troll Druid
10395
First off I want to state I very rarely post on the forums (I think this is maybe my third time to post here in over 5 years). The purpose of this post is to discuss the problem that exists for shamans in 10 man raids.

I think everyone already realizes that shamans are at the bottom of the barrel with resto druids in terms of healing. One of the things I have noticed in reading the forums is that people tend to focus on what the high end raiders are doing, and say things like its ok you bring utility (to be honest it is usually pallies and disc priests saying this, must be nice to be at the top) .

I raid in a small guild that that did pretty well in the first set of raids in mop, but we are floundering with the new raids, and I believe it is due to our healing set up which consists of two shamans and whatever third healer we pick up that week. Guilds that have pallies and disc priests have a much easier time progressing in the new raids as compared to a set up like ours with two shamans and that isn't ok. Some might say well just recruit some other healing classes, well my answer to that is twofold, first off we are friends that raid together and for smaller guilds recruiting is not as easy as some might think.

Personally I cannot fathom why Blizzard refuses to recognize that there is a problem with a large part of their player base who play resto shammys, and from a business standpoint leaving a part of your customer base out in the cold is not smart.

What are my options? Well as I see it there are several.

1) Re-roll (this is not going to happen, every healer should be equally effective in the role of healing and if they are not it is Blizzards job to fix it)

2) Bench myself if the guild can find healers to replace me that are more effective. I do not want my class to be what is holding back my friends with respect to raiding, but this is totally up to the guild leader.

3) Quit the game. I have considered this because a game is supposed to be fun, and if I find myself getting frustrated there is not much point in playing anymore.


Resto Shamans did get buffed recently. 20% increase to Healing Rain and Chain Heal. Resto Shamans don't need buffs what they need is a change to mechanics that allow them to better heal a spread/moving raid, and this is unlikely to happen until at least 5.3 or possibly the next xpac. That being said, Shamans are capable of healing ToT. My co-healer is a Shaman and I would take him over a Priest or Paladin any day. There are different ways to go about each encounter and with 2 shamans your raid group will have to find a way to stack as much as fight mechanics will allow.

I fully agree. Getting my !@# handed to me in recount by a lower geared healer is embarrassing, although I know I cannot control it I have to live with it. I have serious consideration on rerolling another toon because my numbers are not as NEARLY as good as they should be. I'm not a bad play. I know my stuff. but trying to maximize and get numbers that are not there is very frustrating!


Not sure if serious. Besides hps is not dps, stop comparing your numbers to those of other healers as if it was.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105


Resto Shamans did get buffed recently. 20% increase to Healing Rain and Chain Heal. Resto Shamans don't need buffs what they need is a change to mechanics that allow them to better heal a spread/moving raid, and this is unlikely to happen until at least 5.3 or possibly the next xpac. That being said, Shamans are capable of healing ToT. My co-healer is a Shaman and I would take him over a Priest or Paladin any day. There are different ways to go about each encounter and with 2 shamans your raid group will have to find a way to stack as much as fight mechanics will allow.


Yes, we did recently get buffed. However, they buffed the wrong things (at in terms of making us stronger in ToT), and the buff to HR results in more additional overhealing than effective healing. It worked out to about a 5% overall buff. What he is saying is that the buff was nowhere near sufficient, and definitely will be nowhere in the realm of sufficient when the druid/priest/monk buffs go through in 5.3, with us getting nothing to even keep us at our current (relatively weak) level. We will be even more behind.

And yes, it is foolish to base everything on HPS. However, it is also equally foolish to dismiss it completely and accept massive HPS differences between specs as acceptable "just because HPS doesn't matter". Fights have a minimum healing throughput that is required, and also have a minimum requirement for mechanics and flexibility (i.e running multiple Resto Shaman on a spread AoE fight is likely going to be a huge liability). There needs to be a reason/justification for 20%+ gaps in throughput between classes. While Shaman utility is strong, I don't think it's strong enough to justify where we perform now, and it absolutely won't be strong enough in 5.3 (with our burst now being dwarfed by 3 other classes).
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90 Draenei Priest
8855
What he is saying is that the buff was nowhere near sufficient, and definitely will be nowhere in the realm of sufficient when the druid/priest/monk buffs go through in 5.3, with us getting nothing to even keep us at our current (relatively weak) level. We will be even more behind.


Are you... Drunk? Disc priests = Nerfed. Holy Pallies = Nerfed. Monk/Druids? Lower on meters than Resto Shamans. All that will really come with 5.3 is a whole lot of either A. Nothing, or B. Sadness as all the OP healers get nerfed back down to the lame duck healers, and either way you still probably won't catch an absorb healer because of the way absorbs actually work. That being said, my partner is a resto shaman, and our third healer is a resto druid, do I outheal them in equivalent gear? Yes. Can I solo heal everything? No.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
6560
What he is saying is that the buff was nowhere near sufficient, and definitely will be nowhere in the realm of sufficient when the druid/priest/monk buffs go through in 5.3, with us getting nothing to even keep us at our current (relatively weak) level. We will be even more behind.


Are you... Drunk? Disc priests = Nerfed. Holy Pallies = Nerfed. Monk/Druids? Lower on meters than Resto Shamans. All that will really come with 5.3 is a whole lot of either A. Nothing, or B. Sadness as all the OP healers get nerfed back down to the lame duck healers, and either way you still probably won't catch an absorb healer because of the way absorbs actually work. That being said, my partner is a resto shaman, and our third healer is a resto druid, do I outheal them in equivalent gear? Yes. Can I solo heal everything? No.


First off, stop the sarcastic insult, not helping your argument. Second, disc priests atonement healing is getting nerfed, and according to disc priests atonement isn't even used that much on progression so whats the problem? Third, the holy pally nerf from what i understand is going to be about 5% of overall healing, in a lot of fights they are more than 5% ahead, and lastly what meters are you looking at where monks are consistently lower than resto shamans?
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90 Troll Druid
10395


Resto Shamans did get buffed recently. 20% increase to Healing Rain and Chain Heal. Resto Shamans don't need buffs what they need is a change to mechanics that allow them to better heal a spread/moving raid, and this is unlikely to happen until at least 5.3 or possibly the next xpac. That being said, Shamans are capable of healing ToT. My co-healer is a Shaman and I would take him over a Priest or Paladin any day. There are different ways to go about each encounter and with 2 shamans your raid group will have to find a way to stack as much as fight mechanics will allow.

Yes, we did recently get buffed. However, they buffed the wrong things (at in terms of making us stronger in ToT), and the buff to HR results in more additional overhealing than effective healing. It worked out to about a 5% overall buff. What he is saying is that the buff was nowhere near sufficient, and definitely will be nowhere in the realm of sufficient when the druid/priest/monk buffs go through in 5.3, with us getting nothing to even keep us at our current (relatively weak) level. We will be even more behind.

And yes, it is foolish to base everything on HPS. However, it is also equally foolish to dismiss it completely and accept massive HPS differences between specs as acceptable "just because HPS doesn't matter". Fights have a minimum healing throughput that is required, and also have a minimum requirement for mechanics and flexibility (i.e running multiple Resto Shaman on a spread AoE fight is likely going to be a huge liability). There needs to be a reason/justification for 20%+ gaps in throughput between classes. While Shaman utility is strong, I don't think it's strong enough to justify where we perform now, and it absolutely won't be strong enough in 5.3 (with our burst now being dwarfed by 3 other classes).


I realize that the Healing Rain and Chain Heal buff didn't really help Shamans to heal ToT, that was my point. Straight buffs to spells you already help will not fix Shaman's spread healing problems, mechanic changes like increasing the jump range of chain heal or something to that effect is what Shamans need. I hope you understand that I actually agree with you I'm just saying that increasing the amount that your current spells heal for is not they way to fix the problem. As for the tranq/dh changes, I don't know enough to discuss them and 5.3 is still a long way out so things are likely to change before then.

And as for the meters, I never said they don't matter, what I said was that hps is different from dps and I don't think it should be used to compare yourself to other healers, especially in LFR where there is rarely enough damage happening to justify the number of healers they force you to have. Meters are, however, good for lots of other things like making sure you are using the right spells, making sure you are dispelling enough, and many other things.
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90 Troll Druid
7940
RShaman succeeds when the raid is tightly clustered together, because so much of their throughput is tied to Healing Rain. That does not happen on a lot of fights in ToT. RShaman is also much, much better in a 25 man then in a 10 man. Let's break the fights down:

1. Jin'Rokh: NBD, raid is mostly together, very little in the way of movement mechanics.

2. Horridon: Tons of movement, adds everywhere, complete PITA for RShaman.

3. Council: see Horridon, slightly less annoying, okayish because the raidwide damage isn't always that bad.

4. Tortos: movement, adds. Healing rain not nearly as potent as it could be. Hrain is okay for tank on tortos and melee DPS. Middle ground fight.

5. Megarea: While this fight does invole some clustering, absorb spells are good, better, best. Not terrible though.

6. Ji-Kun: average for Rsham

7. Durumu: average or below average for Rsham

8. Primordus: Rsham's worst nightmare. Nonstop movement.

9. Dark Animus: below average for RSham. Movement, adds.

10. Iron Qon: probably above average for R sham save on the second phase. RSham is good in the final phase.

11. Twin Consorts: average for RSham. their cooldowns are nice here.

12. Lei Shen: I'd actually rank this as above average for an RSham. Cooldowns are strong here, and the raid is often grouped up. There is not a ton of movement - there are phases, of course, but not the end of the world.

In the end, the big problem with RSham is that the tools are simply not there. The class is balanced around two powerful cooldowns: HTT and Ascendance. This is an issue, because those abilities cannot always be used and require intelligent planning. Every other healer has some form of absorb mechanic. It's not that hard to make a totem that picks up damage. That's also why Rsham gets dominated on HPS meters....I would commonly be at 40k on HPS but over 40% ahead of anyone else on overheal.
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
Every other healer has some form of absorb mechanic. It's not that hard to make a totem that picks up damage.

Make HTT baseline, make a new totem that you can choose as a talent.

With the amount of Resto Shaman choosing HTT, it really should be made baseline - it's almost a mandatory talent.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12895
Don't expect anything for shamans -- https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/327870726398963713

Ghostcrawler posted on twitter - "We think shaman are fine. We think druid hots get trumped a lot by absorbs, esp. paladin and Disc's. 5.3 changes should help."
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90 Draenei Shaman
12895
I liked your list but this is more accurate for 10 man raid scene -

05/01/2013 08:57 AMPosted by Axondruid
1. Jin'Rokh: NBD, raid is mostly together, very little in the way of movement mechanics.

The healing water buff everyone needs to be on the edge and people are constantly running out, mind you for the big damage we are stacked up but our hps will slow right up when not in the stack phase as our heals won't reach everyone until the water has expanded enough.

05/01/2013 08:57 AMPosted by Axondruid
3. Council: see Horridon, slightly less annoying, okayish because the raidwide damage isn't always that bad.

Healing rain is almost useless there is sand trap causes people to spread, then the lighting charge rarely are you going to have people stacked up well enough for what our tool kit gives.

05/01/2013 08:57 AMPosted by Axondruid
4. Tortos: movement, adds. Healing rain not nearly as potent as it could be. Hrain is okay for tank on tortos and melee DPS. Middle ground fight.

Okay one turtles are constantly forcing everyone to move, the stomp forces everyone to move including melee dps healing rain is near useless.

05/01/2013 08:57 AMPosted by Axondruid
5. Megarea: While this fight does invole some clustering, absorb spells are good, better, best. Not terrible though.
This should be a fight that shamans blast everyone and most likely your still going to come behind pallies, disc priests and mist weavers. which makes no sense.

05/01/2013 08:57 AMPosted by Axondruid
6. Ji-Kun: average for Rsham
Agree this one isn't to bad

05/01/2013 08:57 AMPosted by Axondruid
7. Durumu: average or below average for Rsham
No where near average light beam movement kills most of our heals, then a running map, this fight has a ton of movement

05/01/2013 08:57 AMPosted by Axondruid
8. Primordus: Rsham's worst nightmare. Nonstop movement.


05/01/2013 08:57 AMPosted by Axondruid
9. Dark Animus: below average for RSham. Movement, adds.


05/01/2013 08:57 AMPosted by Axondruid
10. Iron Qon: probably above average for R sham save on the second phase. RSham is good in the final phase.
This is probably our best fight in TOT

05/01/2013 08:57 AMPosted by Axondruid
11. Twin Consorts: average for RSham. their cooldowns are nice here.
Other than the healing debuff that happens off things like healing rain this is a good fight for shamans.

05/01/2013 08:57 AMPosted by Axondruid
12. Lei Shen: I'd actually rank this as above average for an RSham. Cooldowns are strong here, and the raid is often grouped up. There is not a ton of movement - there are phases, of course, but not the end of the world.
So you haven't done this on normal as you have two transiton phases where there is 3 of you on a platform you can't reach anyone else and you need to be 10 yards apart. Even during normal phases you are stacking and unstacking at rapid pace as not to get fisted by abilities. This fight is terrible for shamans, as most of the time when you stacking etc. your mitigating damage so there is hardly anything to heal. In phase one i could spam my heals and i would sit at 19k heals per second as no one is ever taking any damage and the our mist-weaver and pally sit at 40k heals per second. Then they both have better options for transition phases.

Dragon Soul we ran the show when you can stack up for long periods of time as big damage goes out our numbers are way up but in this raid anytime we are stacking up for big damage it doesn't last long so our numbers sky rocket and then you spend 3/4 of the fight with your numbers just falling as everyone is spread out.

Now in 25 man it's way better as you can drop healing rain on your melee and get 5 people in 10 man your usually only going to have 2 sometimes 3 people in your healing rain other than the short stack phases.

We are just not as good in the 10 man raid scene.
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83 Draenei Shaman
17780
Your class isn't as terrible as you think it is. Yes I agree when the raid spreads out shamans have trouble but your post and most shaman rabbling on the forum for awhile now has been annoying posts of self-entitlement and a thinly veil argument that screams I want to be the best at everything and be top of the meters.(see thread about shaman wanting buffs to HTT) Shaman are very powerful in 25 mans and in 10 mans keep up with other classes just as well especially if you are two healing and you use your powerful and efficient spells on tanks. You are disillusioned or are just lying in your argument about how BROKEN the shaman class is. Give it a rest.


Dude play a shaman heal in progression then comeback and talk, you clearly haven't played a resto shaman to say that its not broken or play some padding class coming here and telling us what shaman should feel, you give it a rest. Hate them none shamans coming telling "shamans are fine" when they would never even play a shaman.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12895
Your class isn't as terrible as you think it is. Yes I agree when the raid spreads out shamans have trouble but your post and most shaman rabbling on the forum for awhile now has been annoying posts of self-entitlement and a thinly veil argument that screams I want to be the best at everything and be top of the meters.(see thread about shaman wanting buffs to HTT) Shaman are very powerful in 25 mans and in 10 mans keep up with other classes just as well especially if you are two healing and you use your powerful and efficient spells on tanks. You are disillusioned or are just lying in your argument about how BROKEN the shaman class is. Give it a rest.


Actually in 10 man shamans are not keeping up with other classes that is not a true statement also log on your main raiding toon so people can see what you raid as and your experience for you to give any evidence that your statement has any value.

Are you healing current content (not lfr)?
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90 Tauren Priest
0
You are disillusioned or are just lying in your argument about how BROKEN the shaman class is. Give it a rest.


You clearly don't understand how this game works. No amount of utility is worth the gap Shaman's have with Pallies/Discos, especially when you consider the vast amount of utility those 2 specs have to begin with (arguably equal to if not greater than Shamans in utility).

Shamans are *horrible* in 10m. Two or three healing makes virtually no difference. They cannot handle mechanics unless the group is in a blue circle the whole time. Spread healing? Lol. Mobile Healing? Lol.The only people they're competing in HPS with are Blood DK's and Prot Paladins.

Numbers obviously aren't everything, but even on "ideal" fights like Megaera/Iron Qon, Shamans aren't beating anyone. They need more serious mechanical changes than probably any spec has in the past 3+ years.
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90 Human Paladin
15480
05/02/2013 06:17 AMPosted by Ayelin
you clearly haven't played a resto shaman to say that its not broken


Can't say they are broken. Sure they are a little behind, and moreso in 10 man. But broken is a bit of a stretch.
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90 Troll Shaman
13320
rsham are fine.
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90 Orc Shaman
7940
negative
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90 Draenei Shaman
5575
Refer to this graph, and then explain how we are fine:

http://tinyurl.com/avvr8nh
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