A request for all DPS in LFD

90 Blood Elf Paladin
8785
Please let the tank pull.

I have always been a healer, and decided to roll a tank, so at least i would be knowledgeable on what a tank has to do. Created another pally and is now at 28 (respecced this 88 pally as well).

The problem is that yes i know almost all the old school dungeons are overly simplified now, but for anyone just learning to tank, these are the stepping stones to learning your roll.
It is very hard to learn you're mechanics, finding a good rotation, when hunters, mages, warriors, ect. all try to pull before the tank.

Tank goes to slow, tank goes to fast, all this is usually said by the DPS. Maybe the tank is looking at the healers mana bar, maybe the tank is just taking a moment to think about the next pull and what he/she is going to do.

I even made a macro that i pop a few seconds after everyone has zoned in and yet i still get people pulling before me throughout the entire instance, about every other dungeon i queue into.

/i Hello all. This is my first tanking toon so i am relearning all these dungeons over again. If i do anything wrong or you have advice, please tell me. Please let me pull the mobs at my pace so that i gain aggro first. I will start to pull in 10 seconds
/dbm pull 10

I am not saying that there are bad tanks that need motivated a little bit, but just remember that someone may be new to it, and are relearning everything all over again as a different role.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and hopefully understand my viewpoint.
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90 Human Warrior
13405
imagine caring about getting to pull in a low level dungeon
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8785
^ This is the whole point of my post
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
14900
I wonder how many DPS, who pull for the tank, read the DD forums.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6720
I started tanking on my paladin last weekend, in the 80 or so heroics i've run i've never had a DPS actually pull for me. Just charge through the dungeons it's fun.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8785
Maybe i just have an unlucky streak with the groups i've been put with. I try to go as fast as the healer and dps can keep up, but it just seemed it was never fast enough. Though like i said, it was not every group. Some groups were so fun to be with and the dungeon went by really fast that we continued for a couple more. Just some were headaches.

My main (Priest healer) i leveled entirely through dungeons and have countless times watched as DPS pulled before the tank, now i am having to heal everyone that wears cloth armor just because they felt it should go faster. As a healer, i just let them die if they pulled on purpose. But since i am trying to learn to tank, i now have to jump right in and try to get aggro on me instead.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9780
Just let the dps pulling for you also tank for you. If your healer is not an idiot, protect just him. People learn better when they are kissing the floor.
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90 Worgen Warlock
14465
I agree with the OP.

Afterall, dungeons require near perfect CC so they continue to stay hard even at max level. During leveling you don't have much gear so it's not like you can just roll the mobs in two or three hits. It takes a certain level of finesse and patience to get through these dungeons, and a group is only as strong as the tank. Without the proper leadership of the tank the pulls will go absolutely haywire. Mobs will be all up in your healer, DPS will be CCing the DoTed mobs, and the tank will probably have to burn through all his CDs just to keep himself alive.

Wait...this isn't TBC? Nevermind then.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8785
Varlth,

My original point may have been lost. It was the fact that the tank, may be new to tanking, and it is hard to learn your role when everyone else is taking aggro from you and not letting you fine tune your skills. Instead you are put in the position of damage control and under pressure learning which may not end well. We all learn from wipes, but at least have the courtesy to let the tank do what he queued for so that he may learn as well.

I'll give another example. Lets say two priests queue, one as disc/holy healer, and the other as shadow priest. Upon zoning in, the shadow priest decides to go disc and he heals everyone. Has the healer learned anything from the instance? No, because there is someone else doing their job, so they never get that panic moment when the health bars drop, they never get to see how good their rotation of healing spells are because another player is already taking care of it.

It was just a kind request that i tried to make, that of, do what you queued for. You queue as DPS then, do that. DPS everything and kill it. Healer queues then heal away and don't worry so much about DPS since you are there to keep everyone alive. And tank, establish arrgo so only you are taking direct damage and that way the healer doesn't have a nightmare of everyone going down and needing healed.

If this post was lost on some of you, i am sorry. The ones that DPS that say "Well its low level dungeon", that's not the point. lvl 15 or lvl 90 dungeons, it doesn't matter, just play your role, because you never know who is trying something new for the first time and may want to take things a little slower or more carefully because they don't want to be responsible for a wipe, they just want the chance to learn.
Edited by Timèlord on 5/2/2013 11:35 AM PDT
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90 Undead Mage
11635
The more you PUG tank, the more you will learn to cease to care about others. My other main is a Bear tank, and I remember when I used to get worked up (when I was just starting out tanking) when dps would be impatient, pull, complain, etc.

Now though? I just let the impatient morons all die and pre-warn the healer not to rez people that pull before I do. To He// with them. Given how long dps queues are you can pick up another dps instantaneously after the guy realizes he has to run back all the way through a Vanilla instance and rage quits.

It seriously gives me the most satisfaction as a tank to see a mage, warlock, or rogue frantically running from the mobs they pulled and just expected me to pick up because they are self entitled 16 year old punks that have not a care for anyone but themselves. I literally giggle at my desk.

Once you learn to appreciate these finer things about tanking, and stop caring about idiots, the more fun you will have.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
0
I agree with the OP.

Afterall, dungeons require near perfect CC so they continue to stay hard even at max level. During leveling you don't have much gear so it's not like you can just roll the mobs in two or three hits. It takes a certain level of finesse and patience to get through these dungeons, and a group is only as strong as the tank. Without the proper leadership of the tank the pulls will go absolutely haywire. Mobs will be all up in your healer, DPS will be CCing the DoTed mobs, and the tank will probably have to burn through all his CDs just to keep himself alive.

Wait...this isn't TBC? Nevermind then.


I liked this post.

My original point may have been lost. It was the fact that the tank, may be new to tanking, and it is hard to learn your role when everyone else is taking aggro from you and not letting you fine tune your skills.


How are you going to fine-tune your skills when you're never pressured to do so? You'll get better a whole lot quicker if you go with the sink or swim method.

Learning to keep yourself from getting flustered when things start getting out of control is one of the most important skills a tank needs to learn. You have the tools to bring a pull under control. You can blame the DPS for your failure to do so but in the eyes of a seasoned player, that is a cop out. Are the DPS stupid for recklessly pulling before you? Perhaps, but a good tank will rise to the challenge. And I think you'll quickly realize that it is a whole hell of a lot more productive to simply cover for stupidity with your own skill than it is to complain about said stupidity.

Just don't become one of those stubborn egotistical tanks that sits there and lets people die because they had the AUDACITY to pull a pack of trash (perhaps by accident) before you. You're being given an opportunity to test your mettle as a tank, don't shrink away from the challenge.
Edited by Kaikou on 5/2/2013 2:38 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Monk
12735
Part of tanking is taking control of the group and deciding where it needs to go. Go quickly unless you have to afk, and don't strain yourself. Threat isn't nearly as big a deal as it used to be, so your biggest concern should be how much damage you're taking (not really an issue in low level dungeons)

Until you hit 85, and even after, don't sweat your performance so long as you don't die, and move as a brisk pace. That doesn't mean facepull the entire place at once, but if you can't think of a reason to wait, then you should be going.

Just keep these in mind:
You can always let people who pull unnecessary mobs on purpose handle it themselves. They shouldn't pull if they can't handle it, and it's not your job to babysit them. You're the leader.

Pets taunting is only a bad thing on fights with important positionng. If the pet's taking damage and you're not, that's mitigation for the tank. Pet's taking one for the team.

Same for other people who taunt aggro, to be honest. I don't understand tanks who get bent out of shape about aggro.

If you're having trouble holding onto the mob, you're doing something wrong in most cases (there are some in low level dungeons where dps pulls insane dps) you have (I think) a 500% threat bonus and tanks pull as much if not more dps than dps until max level.

Watch your healer's mana. enough said.

Just don't become one of those stubborn egotistical tanks that sits there and lets people die because they had the AUDACITY to pull a pack of trash (perhaps by accident) before you. You're being given an opportunity to test your mettle as a tank, don't shrink away from the challenge.


Normally I would agree with this, but I had a group the other day in scarlet halls who were pulling every single pack of trash that we didn't need. On purpose.

We're not getting exp, so why? They're just wasting my time when all I wanted was a quick run.
Edited by Sichel on 5/2/2013 1:43 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
15790
On my now lvl 70 boomkin I will pull pretty much everything whether the tank is ready or not. Everyone left shadow lab when i was lvl 67 after the first boss and i was able to solo the rest without worrying about cc or anything. The purpose of saying that is to simply show that I dont need a tank or a healer to handle most of the dungeons.

If a tank says they are new and would like me to stop without being rude about it i will gladly do so. But if the tanks gets angry or starts getting upset before saying anything then I will continue.

We're not getting exp, so why? They're just wasting my time when all I wanted was a quick run.


I do see this sometimes but I more often see people try to skip everything in dungeons while leveling and it baffles me. We are in the dungeons for experience, why are you skipping good exp lol.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8480
I hate to break this to you, but you really aren't needed in heroics. Yes, we appreciate you tanking mobs, but in reality we really don't need you. I have flat out tanked instances on my ele sham and this guy, holy dps priest, b/c the tank was slow as balls.

In lower, if you are pulling the entire instance in one go, it's not going to happen. People will not wait sadly. As for heroics at 90, yeah....if you aren't pulling back to back -- barring times when a healer absolutely needs to stop -- i will just keep pulling with the healer healing me instead of you. I'm there to get xp and get out (lower) or just my VP/JP (heroic), not wait for you to finish Pride and Prejudice between each pull.
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90 Human Priest
12730
Pull faster, problem solved.
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
well, there are perks to being a tank.

you can let them die first, and then taunt. they will get the idea, eventually.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10140
Pull faster, problem solved.


^

DPS DPS things. It's your job as a tank to provide them with things to hit.

Stop not doing your job and start do doing your job.
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90 Troll Shaman
15790
well, there are perks to being a tank.

you can let them die first, and then taunt. they will get the idea, eventually.


How is this productive?
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90 Human Priest
6925
i hate sitting there waiting for the tank, so no thanks ill pull for you
Edited by Cleangirls on 5/3/2013 7:41 AM PDT
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