Here's what healers need to be like.

05/02/2013 03:06 PMPosted by Röthtwo
Morenn, see right there, I made the exact same argument that he tried to make(at least I think), and you were able to have a legitimate discussion about it. That is rare now a days on this forum.


Which proves I am capable of civil, intelligent discussion if that is what is being initiated. :P

And sure, but you shouldn't be trashed for it. Often times other video game forums are much more casual than what people expect here to be taken seriously. Even different parts of the WoW forums are more casual. And some people just don't know, and some even have a language barrier. Or they could just straight suck at writing or conveying a message. It doesn't mean their opinion is any less valid because they can't say it correctly.


You could be correct, however in my experiences, more often than not people starting out with aggressive commentary intend it to be as such rather than it just being a misunderstanding due to the inability to communicate their beliefs adequately because of a language barrier or other cause. This, in no way, means I am 100% correct that this is always the reason and I will be the very first to admit if I am wrong (and apologize if warranted), but I do feel in the vast majority of cases this is accurate.
Edited by Morenn on 5/2/2013 3:23 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
10655
Your civility is commendable and I often agree, but not in this case. Another topic he posted just a bit ago:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8767046639

Clear troll.

You're cross referencing threads in each. In that thread it doesn't look like he's trolling at all, just jaded and not well versed. I'm not saying that he can't be construed as a troll, but I just think he isn't very well spoken. Personally I think he's just trying to understand priests in that thread, and in this thread he's speaking from a DPS's point of view. Nothing wrong with that.
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90 Human Paladin
10655
You could be correct, however in my experiences, more often than not people starting out with aggressive commentary intend it to be as such rather than it just being misunderstanding due to the inability to communicate their beliefs adequately because of a language barrier or other cause. This, in no way, means I am 100% correct that this is always the reason and I will be the very first to admit if I am wrong (and apologize if warranted), but I do feel in the vast majority of cases this is accurate.

I respectfully disagree and I don't think that it would hurt anyone if the combativeness and ganging up on people in this forum stopped. It would eliminate trolls (they wouldn't get a negative reaction like they often get), and also help those that don't know what they're doing or how to convey their opinion.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Guys, Roth is going to argue this into oblivion. There's no point in continuing to feed him.
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90 Human Paladin
10655
Guys, Roth is going to argue this into oblivion. There's no point in continuing to feed him.

I thought we were having a good conversation/argument and I had a stance against posts exactly like this.
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I respectfully disagree and I don't think that it would hurt anyone if the combativeness and ganging up on people in this forum stopped. It would eliminate trolls (they wouldn't get a negative reaction like they often get), and also help those that don't know what they're doing or how to convey their opinion.


Fair points... however, I don't gang up on anyone. :P As for the combativeness, I see the point you are trying to make, but I still disagree. I feel it does just as much harm to let people say anything they want in any way they want. Maybe I am wrong, maybe you are wrong. Maybe we both are, maybe neither of us are. Respond how you feel is appropriate and I will respond how I feel is appropriate and I guess in the end we will see (or not?) who had the better way of dealing with things.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7275
05/02/2013 03:28 PMPosted by Röthtwo
Guys, Roth is going to argue this into oblivion. There's no point in continuing to feed him.

I thought we were having a good conversation/argument and I had a stance against posts exactly like this.


We. Don't. Care. You're continuing the argument for the sake of continuing th argument.
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90 Human Paladin
10655
Fair points... however, I don't gang up on anyone. :P As for the combativeness, I see the point you are trying to make, but I still disagree. I feel it does just as much harm to let people say anything they want in any way they want. Maybe I am wrong, maybe you are wrong. Maybe we both are, maybe neither of us are. Respond how you feel is appropriate and I will respond how I feel is appropriate and I guess in the end we will see (or not?) who had the better way of dealing with things.

Before I leave this alone, I just want to ask you a question.

Do you legitimately believe that this forum is good for players, new or old, to have conversation about the game? I feel like there's been a shift at some point that made it common to dismiss topics altogether without discussing them, but I'm genuinely curious if I'm in the minority here.
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90 Human Paladin
10655
We. Don't. Care. You're continuing the argument for the sake of continuing th argument.

Not really. I think that this is a good conversation. Middle school bullying tactics don't work on me. If you don't care then don't read.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
05/02/2013 03:28 PMPosted by Röthtwo
Guys, Roth is going to argue this into oblivion. There's no point in continuing to feed him.

I thought we were having a good conversation/argument and I had a stance against posts exactly like this.


It basically comes down to, "You guys were super mean to someone who appeared to be trolling and was later found out to be, in actuality, a known troll."

I understand why you personally would have a problem with that. On the other hand, as Morenn stated, people get what they give.

You two are never going to agree. All you're doing is giving this thread far more views than it deserves.
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90 Human Paladin
10655
He hasn't been determined a troll by anything but hearsay. He hasn't shown anything that proves that in this thread, so there's no reason to assume so.
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90 Tauren Druid
11345
Roth, I respectfully disagree with your stance on "ganging up" on trolls and it being detrimental to the community.

The Vanilla/early BC druid community was amazing. Probably among the best this game has ever seen. And when forum trolls visited us, they were greeted collectively with (#) and various gourmet waffle recipes. If anything 'ruined' the community, it was a large influx of players due to combined factors of having multiple viable specs, becoming FoTM in PvP (s2-s4 rdruid OP), and the relative ease of leveling a druid after Vanilla.

@Danget, in celebration of the old tradition, (#)
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Before I leave this alone, I just want to ask you a question.

Do you legitimately believe that this forum is good for players, new or old, to have conversation about the game? I feel like there's been a shift at some point that made it common to dismiss topics altogether without discussing them, but I'm genuinely curious if I'm in the minority here.


I can't honestly answer this.. or more to the point I can, but my answer will probably be of little value to anyone other than myself, but here goes...

Do I feel things can be more contentious? Yes I can see that. However, where our opinions diverge is on what causes this. You feel (I gather at least) that it is the negativity of the "usual" posters whereas I believe it is caused by the quality of posting.

I have only been an active poster in this forum for about a year so that is really all the "history" I can speak on. Were there better discussions in the past? Absolutely, but in my opinion this is because there were more thought-provoking posts in the past.

TL;DR: I think the decline(?) of the forum is due to the high ratio of "Healers are overpowered!" "My class sucks!" "Blizzard hates XXX class!" rather than the people who are replying to these topics.
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90 Human Paladin
10655
Roth, I respectfully disagree with your stance on "ganging up" on trolls and it being detrimental to the community.

The Vanilla/early BC druid community was amazing. Probably among the best this game has ever seen. And when forum trolls visited us, they were greeted collectively with (#) and various gourmet waffle recipes. If anything 'ruined' the community, it was a large influx of players due to combined factors of having multiple viable specs, becoming FoTM in PvP (s2-s4 rdruid OP), and the relative ease of leveling a druid after Vanilla.

@Danget, in celebration of the old tradition, (#)

It's not an issue of ganging up on trolls. The best I can equate this to is Middle Age witch hunting where you call troll and then the thread is just entirely abandoned when it comes to actual content.

If it's an obvious troll go right at it, but often times "trolls" are just people that can't express what they want to say perfectly and are met with condescension which is in return met with hostility, and then is determined a troll. You can see the same pattern happen all over the place here.
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90 Human Paladin
10655
05/02/2013 03:40 PMPosted by Morenn
Do I feel things can be more contentious? Yes I can see that. However, where our opinions diverge is on what causes this. You feel (I gather at least) that it is the negativity of the "usual" posters whereas I believe it is caused by the quality of posting.


I see this as well, I'm just saying it can be combated from both sides.
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I see this as well, I'm just saying it can be combated from both sides.


Absolutely. If people are genuinely being overly aggressive without cause then yes they should check themselves. I just do not feel *I* have done that.. and I only have control over myself. I am generally a nice, helpful person (or I try to be at least), but even I have my limits. :)
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90 Tauren Druid
11345
Well, it appeared to be the case from the original post that no constructive conversation would arise from the thread, and it became more apparent as the thread progressed that that was the case.

It may have been hastened in that direction by some of the other healers' posts, but the OP also clearly had the opportunity to turn the thread around had he desired to. On the contrary, though, he made claims which he aggressively would NOT substantiate, and wouldn't even bother explaining his reasoning (likely because there is none). Combined with the information in the other thread that he made (and which was cross-linked here), it does feel very much like a troll.

Hunters are quite strong in PvP. If he had, as he claimed, three healers and earned a 2400 rating, he would probably not be complaining about his class having been ruined. He also would have, by necessity, a reasonable feel for how strong priests are in PvP (and had he bothered to read anything on forums, a reasonable feel for how they are in PvE). Combine that with another player's statement that he was a well-known tradechat troll, and there is enough circumstantial evidence for a jury of his peers to convict him of being a troll.
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90 Human Paladin
10655
05/02/2013 03:48 PMPosted by Morenn
I see this as well, I'm just saying it can be combated from both sides.


Absolutely. If people are genuinely being overly aggressive without cause then yes they should check themselves. I just do not feel *I* have done that.. and I only have control over myself. I am generally a nice, helpful person (or I try to be at least), but even I have my limits. :)

Basically we used to pride ourselves on being nicer than any other forum, but that sort of dwindled. There's no reason to get mad at each other over this, and I think giving benefit of the doubt might be beneficial to bring people out of the woodwork.

With that said, I'm done here, I've said my piece and pointed out what I want to point out. This is the first pleasant conversation I've had here in a while and I hope to have more. Peace.
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90 Human Paladin
11480
All I want to say is. I beat a warrior in a PvP duel the other day, fury warrior.

I am so proud I actually managed to DPS him through second wind :} Oh trust me, it took some intense thought:

Wings, Guardian, trinket for spell power, hand of protection, hammer. Then I let fly with denounce, holy shock, holy prism, and a few more denouces, then hammer.

My god, I can't believe I beat him, but I did it.

And no, you shouldn't be able to kill us 1v1, we're healers. We heal. If we heal = a dps's dps, guess what you have? Stalemate. And that's how it should be. Unless you're awesome, in which case sometimes the healer beats you (barely) and sometimes the DPS solos the healer. Happens.
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90 Tauren Druid
7700


I have three level 90 healers, and it's no fun fighting with them and I personally agree that they are ridiculously overpowered.


no you dont. stop being bad.
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