what else healers in my raid can improve?

90 Blood Elf Mage
Hi guys, my guild are raiding ToT atm and we're very casual guild (2/12 atm), we stuck in horridon for like 4-5 weeks, now we're facing council of elder seems to be another huge raid wall.

We had about 20ish wipes in Elder atm, trying to see if we have anything we can improve from healers.

I never play holy/mw myself, so I wish I can get some lovely information about my tank in raid. (Although, I have been disc back in cata, I'm trying to convince one of our priests to go disc, if u guys can give me pros/cons over holy/disc, it would be great too)

Here is log from 3 bosses Jin(1kill)/ Horridon(1wipe/1kill)/ Elder(2wipes, than we called for the night)


holy priest & our gm ilvl 506

mw monk ilvl 505

holy priest 501
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90 Troll Monk
Noticed some extra quicksand damage on a couple of your members, are healers not dispelling asap? Make sure people aren't just standing in the poop for no reason.

Other than that, your empowered councillers need to die faster, and set a sand bolt interrupt rotation if that's not happening already. Make sure everyone's dodging reckless charge, and that 3 are stacking for frostbite when frosty is empowered.
Edited by Prush on 5/3/2013 2:14 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
Seems to me like a dps issue looking at your council attempts. Dark Power is going off quite frequently which means your dps is all over the place. You also had a player kill themselves via overload on Kazra'jin.
Edited by Dasaq on 5/3/2013 2:42 PM PDT
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100 Human Monk
Welcome to the world of DPSCraft. The hardest role to play of any class in WoW is that of a healer in a raid with bad DPS. It literally makes the fights so ridiculously hard that's you could probably take a healer in a group with bad dps and toss them into a heroic mode with good dps and they'd call it easy.

The short answer is that, doing everything you can as a healer is only the minor deal in the grand scheme of things. Blizzard has comically said that they were reducing the DPS requirements and dps checks for the fights on normal but they've put in so many mini-dps checks in ToT that it's not even funny. Council is a perfect example of this because they have a laundry list of different dps checks that equate to wipes if you don't meet them.
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92 Pandaren Monk
Dispels aren't the problem. The way how we are doing things is that everyone was stacked on the frost king empower. So Sand Traps would spawn on range group.
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Just some tips for your MW.. He isn't even at the 3145 haste breakpoint that gets you an 11th tick on Renewing Mist, but he has more than enough gear to get there without much trouble at all. He could probably get there if he just stopped reforging out of haste on his gear.

He's also socketing straight 320 crit gems all over the place, which definitely isn't optimal.
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90 Troll Shaman
One mage has the right idea. NT everything lol.
Boomkin... 75k dps. On a multitarget fight. Yeah that's not a good thing. He needs a better UI that can allow him to manage his dots on multiple targets because he def isn't.
Other Mage... likewise. Where is the NT damage?

OK. A note on Comp. If you are going to 3 heal content then 1-2 of you probably should learn to dps-heal. Fistweave or 1 attonement.

A lot of council is simply strat. You need tank frost king on top of sul. You need to have everyone with powerful dots dot both. You need to only put enough damage into frost king that his empowerment is pushed off at max energy. Every other once of killing power needs to be on sul. Range spread a little so they don't spawn sand traps on melee or cause kazra to charge through melee. When princess is empowered interrupt and pull her on top of sul. Do the same thing all over again, for her empowerment off at 100 energy but put tons of damage into sul. Preferentially assign melee dps to stay on Sul so they can interrupt sand bolts. Finally, you actually have to end the empowerment when they reach full energy or the raid will get AoE'ed, which at your healing power means getting AoE'ed to death.
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90 Worgen Warlock
Welcome to the world of DPSCraft. The hardest role to play of any class in WoW is that of a healer in a raid with bad DPS

I'm not sure why, but this made me laugh, probably because I was in that situation a lot of times.
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100 Draenei Priest
Our raid is at the same points yours is. I was looking on the forums for some info on council, and came across a helpful thread in the R&D section.

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90 Night Elf Druid
we do range spread, frostbite collapse on healers to soak

your mages/rdruid can ice block biting cold, Hurd took 2M avoidable damage from it

other than that just pick a couple dps with interrupts to tunnel sul such that he dies fast without another getting much dark power

0 sandstorm good, 1 sandstorm bad, 2 sandstorm replace dps
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90 Undead Priest
I see nothing major wrong with the priests.

Looks to me like banshee is sitting in Sereneity Chakra and rolling renews on the group. This is perfectly viable. His CoH usage could be much better, although it's not going to stop your progress.

I'm not sure what Grymes is doing. Although Im guessing there's not much for that healer to do...
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90 Gnome Monk
Without looking deeply at the logs I can't say much other than make sure your healers know to blow everything early on. I did notice that the monk apparently didn't use their t90 talent in either attempt (no eminence, no chi torpedo damage/healing, no rjw damage). Once Sul is dead the rest of the fight is pretty easy so you need to make that happen quickly with as many up as possible.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
You've got a lot of extra damage going out. Sand Bolts on the second attempt in particular are out of control.

[06:58:30.832] Sul the Sandcrawler Sand Bolt ßâñshèè 82134
[06:58:30.832] Sul the Sandcrawler Sand Bolt Hurd 121501
[06:58:30.832] Sul the Sandcrawler Sand Bolt Grymes 79703
[06:58:30.832] Sul the Sandcrawler Sand Bolt Fëa 121604

Four people getting hit by the same sand bolt is just harsh. Those need to be interrupted and there should only ever be three people stacked up for Frostbite. Having more people stacked doesn't help you at all it just makes it more likely that the frostbite people are going to get hit by a sand bolt or have quicksand spawn underneath them.

It really seems like your dps is letting you down here. The more dps you have, the more damage you can put on sul before having to switch to whichever one is empowered. Your goal is to actually kill sul before he gets empowered, which ends up making the fight crazy easy.
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Had a look at the logs and this is my impression:

  • The logs show 2 tries of 4+ minutes, so Sul should be (almost) dead by then... If he isn't, your DPS is too low. Sometimes when healing appears to be the problem, it's actually low DPS and - while it feels counterintuitive - swapping a healer for another DPS might be your solution right there.

  • Overhealing is 39.9%. If people are dying, you're gonna need healing assignments. If people are dying due to standing in bad stuff, they need to improve their awareness so you can swap one healer for an extra DPS (or like someone else mentioned - have 2 healers fistweave/atonement-heal)

  • If people are killing themselves while DPSing Kaz during his overload, tell them to slow it down. Although, with 3 healers you can & should easily heal through.

  • It looks like defensive cooldowns aren't being used frequently enough. Few examples: Life cocoon (Fea), Ice Barrier (Hurd, the other mage did), Power Infusion (Grymes), Guardian Spirit (both). Have a look at this if you're unsure what cooldowns are available to your raid us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6489780637

  • Here's some tactics my guild uses. We're a casual guild too, but found Council a lot easier compared to Horridon. We killed it on our 2nd night after 17 wipes total.

  • Have your ranged spread loosely in the middle circle area, between the Priestess and the other 2 and have them collape for frost bite, always moving to the right collectively to avoid Kaz's path or sandtraps. They're in position to intercept the Loa adds and both priest healers are able to use Tendrils (T1 talent) to root them.

  • Have one healer assigned to the frostbite target. A discipline priest is very useful because you can PW:S spam and alternate Spirit Shell, PW:B, Pain supp & Void Shift. (I'd keep the monk with the melee group, assigned to the tanks).

  • If the offtank gets aggro on the Priestess, and no one interrupts or even touches her, she will stay in place at range while the OT is free to run to the MT, so they can alternate tanking Sul & Malakk. If you're 2-healing the stun can get problematic.

  • Once Sul is dead, there isn't much healing needed anymore... So healers can switch to DPS (Having at least 1 healer go Disc would be more useful here than 2 Holy's) and try to balance DPS between Priestess/Loa adds and the empowered one.

    Hope this helps :)
    Edited by Elume on 5/10/2013 10:20 AM PDT
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