Penalties in BGs, when?

Quitters should be allowed to quit, not catered to to keep them participating.


ROFL.

I guess you wouldn't mind paying $30 -$45 a month game sub to make up for the loss of those that are "allowed to quit." as they see see fit.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8925
So this thread has finally motivated me to start a blog to compile answers to questions and replies to suggestions which are frequently asked are proposed on these forums.

I'm sure most people will be too lazy to read the entire thing, but if you want to find out why zero honor losses are a bad thing, here you go:

http://killadrixexplainsthings.wordpress.com/2013/05/04/how-zero-honor-bg-losses-will-destroy-our-very-existence/
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87 Blood Elf Hunter
12895
05/04/2013 09:05 AMPosted by Jadei


they tried this before and they saw a big drop of ppl quing.


When was this? I don't recall a time of not getting honor for losing. Someone needs to refresh my memory.


Back in early TBC, IIRC. Around Marchish, 2007, maybe? The toons I played then weren't high enough to go into AV, but guildies were, and they talked about a boycott Alliance side when Blizzard removed the 0 honor for losing.
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100 Human Paladin
13755
05/04/2013 10:13 AMPosted by Luxxinterior
I remember 12+ hour que times week after week, all the alliance was boycotting av, and if I remember correctly it was because of map imbalances, distance etc. One faction boycotted not because they didn't want to risk getting no point, they boycotted because they believed the entire map was working against them.


Utter nonsense and garbage!

They weren't queuing because it wasn't worth their time. There wasn't some grand conspiracy -- among millions of players! -- to stop doing something that would have been rewarding. That would have been the most smoothly effective boycott in industry (in or out of a game).

No, what happened is individual alliance players found themselves spending 30-45 minutes in AV and just getting HK honor (and not much of that). The honor/time was as bad as, or even worse than, running lolsand in Silithus. So they just stopped queuing. No coordination was needed.
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100 Goblin Shaman
15975
Yeah.. no. Sure give Rated BGs a penalty, but randoms no. I would not like a penalty when my entire team is full of people trying to get the "school of hard knocks" achievement in EOTS and just rush the flag all game, allowing the alliance to cap all four towers.
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90 Goblin Shaman
12965
Utter nonsense and garbage!


There was a large part of the community pushing for a boycott, the wow forums seemed so much better back then. And yea alot of alliance who didn't read the forums, or trade channels stopped quing for AV because they themselves realized time/ honor.

The alliance at that time was losing because of many reasons, but the most popular point was the map had changed to favor the horde, so most alliance didn't que. And every other post on the forums was "boycott"

Its just like today, but the loosing team now gets 100ish points, its just enuff point to allow afkers and honor farmers to gain easy point with no effort.

Today there are many games where many horde players will go afk in AV, and complain about an alliance advantage. Now and then isn't very different.

Many said the horde had the advantage back then, the alliance didn't even want to try to win, so they stopped trying till blizzard changed the map.
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When was this? I don't recall a time of not getting honor for losing. Someone needs to refresh my memory.


Back in early TBC, IIRC. Around Marchish, 2007, maybe? The toons I played then weren't high enough to go into AV, but guildies were, and they talked about a boycott Alliance side when Blizzard removed the 0 honor for losing.


Until Patch 3.3.3 was implemented in March 2010, marks of honor were still the currency so even a losing game awarded one mark of honor. The problem was not that they got no honor, it was that they got no honor from completing objectives since scorched earth prevented any of that so they were left with HK honor.


Many said the horde had the advantage back then, the alliance didn't even want to try to win, so they stopped trying till blizzard changed the map.


They changed the map? The only thing I recall them doing was moving horde starting point farther back so that it was closer to the same distance as alliance start point. Alliance stopped queuing into a guaranteed loss with zero bonus honor. They still got HK honor and a mark. See horde AV HK farm premades if you think it's not still possible for horde to do this.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8925
05/04/2013 02:39 PMPosted by Jadei
Until Patch 3.3.3 was implemented in March 2010, marks of honor were still the currency so even a losing game awarded one mark of honor. The problem was not that they got no honor, it was that they got no honor from completing objectives since scorched earth prevented any of that so they were left with HK honor.


Yes, but you needed to turn in one of each Mark of Honor to get honor, so when you calculated the time it took to farm 1 of each, it was a negligible reward, especially for losing.
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90 Orc Shaman
9170
Players on losing professional sports teams still get paid. They don't get away with "afking" though, but only because somebody is watching them and enforcing their contract. In bgs, this is your job- report the afk players and they get booted out.


You obviously are not a philly fan, Andrew Bynum has afk'd the whole season
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05/04/2013 02:43 PMPosted by Killadrix
Until Patch 3.3.3 was implemented in March 2010, marks of honor were still the currency so even a losing game awarded one mark of honor. The problem was not that they got no honor, it was that they got no honor from completing objectives since scorched earth prevented any of that so they were left with HK honor.


Yes, but you needed to turn in one of each Mark of Honor to get honor, so when you calculated the time it took to farm 1 of each, it was a negligible reward, especially for losing.


The point is, they still got honor, regardless to the mark, they got HK honor, which may have also been negligible, but still got something for losing. I don't recall a time the losing team was not rewarded something. If there was such a time, I wish someone would refresh my memory.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8925


Yes, but you needed to turn in one of each Mark of Honor to get honor, so when you calculated the time it took to farm 1 of each, it was a negligible reward, especially for losing.


The point is, they still got honor, regardless to the mark, they got HK honor, which may have also been negligible, but still got something for losing. I don't recall a time the losing team was not rewarded something. If there was such a time, I wish someone would refresh my memory.


I know there was a very short time they stopped giving marks for losing, and it was before xrealm BG's because I quit and returned to the game I was playing before WoW because on our server, Horde always had 2 HWL groups running (the ONLY 2 groups running, Horde side), and it wasn't worth queuing as Alliance just to get stomped in 6 mins over and over.

It was around the time (right before, I think) they put a minimum time limit on rewards for losing a BG WAY back in the day. For a while they even had a "losing" mark which wasn't worth as much as a "winning" mark, too.
Edited by Killadrix on 5/4/2013 3:23 PM PDT
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32 Human Rogue
2515
The point is that it is wrong giving rewards for losing when this encourages , AFkers, .
Your breeding kindergarden mentality.........give me something because I am "special" and my mum always rewards me, mentality.

I prefer if it was zero rewards for losing ........BUT....if some cry and cry and insist on a reward , then other types of tokens for losing in which they cannot be mixed with winning tokens and the rewards are blue items or something like this
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8925
The point is that it is wrong giving rewards for losing when this encourages , AFkers, .
Your breeding kindergarden mentality.........give me something because I am "special" and my mum always rewards me, mentality.

I prefer if it was zero rewards for losing ........BUT....if some cry and cry and insist on a reward , then other types of tokens for losing in which they cannot be mixed with winning tokens and the rewards are blue items or something like this


Not sure how many times I have to say it: not rewarding losses will encourage:

    Premades
    Queuing into more losing games
    Decreased BG participation, and increased queue times
    Botting


If you really want to destroy PVP, keep asking them to remove honor for losses and see what happens.

I understand the principle of what you are saying but it's not going to give you the outcomes you are looking for.
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90 Worgen Warlock
7575
not rewarding losses will encourage:


Botting


lol no....they would be better off botting pve content...getting pvp gear that way

ROFL.

I guess you wouldn't mind paying $30 -$45 a month game sub to make up for the loss of those that are "allowed to quit." as they see see fit.


I actually would pay that kind of money to have those types of people quit. BGs aren't just about honor/hour. Also, everyone is talking about the AV boycott, that wasn't just about the honor... and as I see it, there are 9 other BGs...
Edited by Jugaa on 5/4/2013 10:25 PM PDT
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100 Worgen Death Knight
16525
Change it to 0 bonus honor for a loss... keep the honor earned during the BG.

AFK out and the Deserter debuff starts to scale with how many times you are AFK'd out in a 24 hour period i.e. 1st - 15 min.; 2nd - 30 min.; 3rd - 1 hour; etc etc

No more losing mentality derps and the bots get thrown off because they can't queue after 15 min.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9570
Players on losing professional sports teams still get paid


Ironically, even winning a BG nets you exactly zero gold.
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85 Dwarf Monk
8925
05/04/2013 10:20 PMPosted by Jugaa
not rewarding losses will encourage:


Botting


lol no....they would be better off botting pve content...getting pvp gear that way



So you think it's less risky to bot PVE content where the bots are more noticeable and easier to kick than to bot battlegrounds?

I'm interested to hear why you think people would be less likely to bot for zero honor losses. It's not like the bot cares if it is sitting in a frustrating zero honor loss or not, right?
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AFK out and the Deserter debuff starts to scale with how many times you are AFK'd out in a 24 hour period i.e. 1st - 15 min.; 2nd - 30 min.; 3rd - 1 hour; etc etc


Yeah great idea. ....Now not only are you in a Bg with worthless derps getting no honor ...but now you can't leave.

Fantastic idea. Why do I have the feeling you are one of the guys that fight in the middle of EotS even tho your team is down 1 tower and the enemy is holding the flag?

Ill tell you why, because only someone like that would think it's cute to trap others in a Bg with you, that's why.
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90 Worgen Warlock
7575
I'm interested to hear why you think people would be less likely to bot for zero honor losses. It's not like the bot cares if it is sitting in a frustrating zero honor loss or not, right?


No but the person who is botting their character will realize, after a few days, they aren't getting gear this way...

but now you can't leave.


You act like you're in a BG for hours. The avg BG lasts 20-25 minutes, if you can't stick it out, you deserve a good penalty...
Edited by Jugaa on 5/5/2013 7:24 AM PDT
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