PCs dying and WoW

90 Human Warrior
4220
05/08/2013 09:18 AMPosted by Lukar
PC sales are declining. Local to me, quite a few computer stores have even gone out of business already. There's a clear shift to iPhones, iPads, Kindles, games consoles and the like, and away from PCs.


Probably because they don't sell components, or can't compete with Newegg and tigerdirect. As multiple other posters have pointed out, more and more people are realizing that (1) building your own PC isn't that hard so long as you do a bit of research (and we all have that one tech friend that can help), and (2) it's much more bang for your buck to buy the components and build it yourself instead of paying more just to have someone build it for you, or in the case of say an Alienware, paying a $3000 premium for the name.

It's the same thing as when people claim that such and such a game performed poorly, but fail to factor in digital sales. There's an entire chunk of the market not being accounted for.


emphasis added.

Anecdotal evidence is still anecdotal. We're talking about macro-economic topics here and you refer to what you see happening in your group of friends; completely irrelevant. A fact was presented, 14% decline in PC sales this quarter. Where's the corresponding report of a 2000% increase in NewEgg and TigerDirect sales? I'd really like a practical quantum computer or a photonics based "transistor" but I'm not going to look at a couple successful experiments and state "more and more people are building functional q-bits" as if it means I'll buy my quantum computer from Amazon in a year.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
16465
05/08/2013 09:43 AMPosted by Daladox
Where's the corresponding report of a 2000% increase in NewEgg and TigerDirect sales?


I'm sure someone is working on it, and if not then perhaps they should. But as I pointed out in my edit, there seems to be a horrible tendency of people studying things to leave out bits and pieces, from game sales (forgetting to account for online direct download sales) to the effects of austerity and stimulus on GDP growth (leaving out cells that contradict your data).
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90 Human Warlock
10200
pc sales gone down...

PC sales are down, however thats due to more and more ways to game now. also people who purchased pcs are probably buying Ipads/iphones/non gaming computers. that and there's how many consoles out now. the market is flooded with many forms of gaming systems. also PC had the market cornered on PC multiplayer which console didnt have and it was cheaper to game 10-20 years ago. most games now require a super computer. 5 or so of my work buddies like console gaming due to the cost.

as for the lack of local pc stores: most gamers put together their own system or go to a much larger distributor now. in aus i go to umart and there's a few others, the idea of going to a local computer store(wont mention names) and paying double for what i can just order online is insane. i mean when these stores with a clearence sale give away a free laptop of equal value with your purchase, you have to ask how greedy they were upfront.

PC game sales down, Reason: World of warcraft, and im serious all the other games when wow come out took a huge hit in participation. add in wow players subs into the mix?
oh and pirating...

Still wish they would put halo 4 on pc.
30 fps vs 120 (30... 25 15... chunky crap, oh xbox is overheating)
mouse and keyboard on 2000 dpi+ mouse vs xbox controler or xim edge with 10 dpi.
1080p
not to mention i already have the hardware to play it and its the only game on pc i miss out on. i have it, but it's more annoying to play on xbox then it's worth.
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90 Human Warrior
4220
Now here's a couple of questions: does the "decline of PC sales" refer only to pre-built PCs purchased at brick-and-mortar locations? Does it count online purchases of pre-builts? Does it include the purchase of PC parts and peripherals, online or brick-and-mortar? Does this mean desktops only? Does it include laptops? Is this proclamation including Macs?

I am certainly inclined to believe that PC sales are down at brick-and-mortar stores simply due to the convenience of online shopping.


It's all about how you slice the data. Laptops/desktops, Apple/MS, Global/Regional, Online/Brick and Mortar. The data I've referenced appears to be all desktops and laptops globally shipped regardless of online/traditional and includes Apple. The underlying data needs to be purchased from IDC or Gartner but here's a very recent article that explains some details and theories (as well as gives anecdotes to humanize the story).

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324695104578414973888155516.html
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90 Human Warrior
4220
05/08/2013 09:47 AMPosted by Lukar
Where's the corresponding report of a 2000% increase in NewEgg and TigerDirect sales?


I'm sure someone is working on it, and if not then perhaps they should. But as I pointed out in my edit, there seems to be a horrible tendency of people studying things to leave out bits and pieces, from game sales (forgetting to account for online direct download sales) to the effects of austerity and stimulus on GDP growth (leaving out cells that contradict your data).


There are certainly hacks producing statistics but if you're implying Gartner/IDC/Forrester cherry pick data I strongly disagree and ask that you provide evidence to support your allegation.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
3140
Once the iPads and competitor models can run WoW, the number of accounts is entirely on Blizzard to capitalize.
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90 Undead Warlock
6435
Its been claimed that PC gaming has been dead or dying since the mid-to-late '90s.

I remember reading articles in gaming magazines back then proclaiming as such. Even then I thought it was a silly thing to say.

Still is.


Lots of people want to see the PC die out.

Won't happen.
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90 Undead Warlock
6435
05/08/2013 09:56 AMPosted by Ginxie
Its been claimed that PC gaming has been dead or dying since the mid-to-late '90s.


I don't care who's claiming what. All I know is Windows 8 is complete crap compared to Lion OSX.


Windows 8 makes even Linux look nice.

Hell, even Windows 95 is better.
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85 Draenei Shaman
8720
Pre-built PC sales are in decline. PC parts and components are on the rise as gamers learn you can make better PCs yourself for less than what a pre-built machine costs. If anything consoles are on the way out with rising costs bleeding the big console developers of money. All consoles this last generation sold at a loss.


Right on the money. Dell and HP sales may be down, but go to any site that sells computer parts and look how many ratings the newer equipment already has. PCs aren't dying, that's just Apple propaganda.
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90 Human Warrior
16720
I keep hearing that PC sales and declining. My thought is...if and how this would affect mmorpg such as wow. I can't see trimming the glorious ultra settings on my pc along with keybindings, macros, etc for the swiping features and hands-on touch of those trivial comps and tablets.

I also have crossed over to calling the consoles are trivial systems not up to par with those of us who relish our systems for being upgraded.

What do you all think?


Actually I think PC's and mmo type games are directly contributing to pc sales declines in multiple ways.
For one, when I first started buying pc'd in the early 90's they were being outdated and replaced about every 1 1/2 to 2 years. Now a good pc can last 4 years easy.

And gamers will often build their own pc. That list of pc sales going down is a count of pre-built models put out by Dell or Hp or other companies. Its pre-built systems only. I've always bought pre-built until just this year when I finally built my own pc. And many players over the years have started building their own pc's. And when you build your own pc you are now out of the pre-built market possibly for ever. When I need to upgrade I will upgrade individual pieces. I have no need for a whole new PC. And nearly everybody who has ever built their own - they are in the same boat.

I don't think the sagging pre-built pc sales will have an adverse affect on mmo's.
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90 Orc Monk
10630
Even non gamers are getting on board. I just recently built a computer for my father in law for him check email, facebook, and whatever other stuff people that don't game do with computers.

So I helped take a few extra bucks out of the big companies pockets, and I must say it makes me very happy.
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90 Human Warrior
8025
Ok, PC sales are down, this is not in dispute. Instead of me trying to explain why I think they are down, let me use some examples instead.

Let's turn the clock back 5 to 6 years. What were the mid range (not top range), machines being sold 5 to 6 years ago? It was the Wolfdale (or CPUs of similar caliber) E8400's. These machines typically had 2 to 4GB of RAM and came with 120 to 500GB drive.

Machines based on this CPU can pretty much do everything today that a typical consumer need. Yes, some of the demanding games will require you to lower the graphics setting, but games will still be quite playable.

Let's turn the clock back another 5 to 6 years to around 2001/2002. What were the mid range machines being sold back then? Answer: AthlonXP systems. Typically had 128MB to 512MB of RAM and 30 to 60GB drives.

In 2007/2008, if you had a machine that you bought in 2001/2002, those machines were barely functional. You sure as hell wasn't going to run Vista on it.

In 2013, if you had a machine that you bought in 2007/2008, those machines were not only completely functional, odds are for most tasks you wouldn't even notice any difference between a brand new machine and the one you're using.

XP -> XP SP2 -> XP SP3 -> Vista was a huge increase in required system resources. Meaning you needed faster machines.

Vista -> 7 -> 8, the required system resources went DOWN.

If you're a corporation that's on the typical corporate PC cycle (usually between 4 to 5 years), why in the world would you bother replacing computers in 2013 that you bought in 2007/2008? Especially when doing so would have almost no impact on your employee productivity?

This more than any other reason is why I think PC sales are down. People aren't buying new machines as much as in the past because they machines they bought are doing what they need to do without any problems.

There needs to be some other major leap in "end user scenario" which require much bigger machines to justify another cycle of PCs being replaced.
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90 Undead Warlock
6435
05/08/2013 10:02 AMPosted by Koursturaux
Pre-built PC sales are in decline. PC parts and components are on the rise as gamers learn you can make better PCs yourself for less than what a pre-built machine costs. If anything consoles are on the way out with rising costs bleeding the big console developers of money. All consoles this last generation sold at a loss.


Right on the money. Dell and HP sales may be down, but go to any site that sells computer parts and look how many ratings the newer equipment already has. PCs aren't dying, that's just Apple propaganda.


Actually, it's not just Apple. I have been listening to this propaganda even in the age when PC's used to be on the rise.

Here is the garbage they have been feeding us since the first PC was ever released for sale.

1. PC's are dying for some reason. They just are. They wont' survive. They can't.
2. Consoles are the future of entertainment.
3. Television is going to stay relevant forever.
4. The Internet won't make it, it's just some FUD.
5. Games ? Who needs those ?
6. YouTube ? Why would anyone want to post or watch amateur videos ?
7. Downloading music with a 14.4K fax modem ? Yeah, this is totally dying out.
8. Writing software for the masses ? Why ?
9. Linux will defeat Windows, like the Light will defeat the forces of the Shadow.
10. Mac and Apple ? Who would buy THOSE ? Yeah, they will die out in another year or two.
11. You mean to remove the cord from that phone, and cross it with a PC ? Silly people.
12. Why would anyone want to make a IMAGE BOARD where all we do is post pictures ???
13. Free software ? This is some utopia that won't make it.

We have been fed these and many more since forever.

Now I got nostalgic for some reason.
Edited by Evolfingers on 5/8/2013 10:50 AM PDT
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
6755
I know it's shocking to think that Snowfox would rush into a thread and post something based on emotion and unsubstantiated facts, but the PC game industry is indeed dying. The good news is that this not going to be an instant catastrophic death, but with take place over the span of 5 to 10 years.

All you need to understand this is a few simple google searches and a little bit of analysis. According to the IDC, PC sales have fallen 14% in the last quarter alone, and this is just part of a larger trend. You can see the exact numbers below.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-pc-industry-implodes-2013-4

While hard core gamers, computer techs, and programers all have great need and love for powerful machines, for the average person, these represent severe overkill and unneeded expense. The combination of smart phones, tablets, and game consoles can generally fill their needs, and all more economically. The future of the popular desktop is now written, and it is bleak.

Now, before you jump in with arguments decrying the health of the video game market, please read into it a little bit more. Counterintuitively, while the PC market is crashing, PC video game sales have actually increased last year.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2032331/surging-pc-game-sales-wont-wither-when-new-consoles-appear-expert-says.html

The article proudly proclaims that the game sales actually increased about 8% from last year, to a now total of 20 billion dollars. However, further reading into the article shows that 6.8 billion of the sales was from a new market opening in China. In 2011, the PC game market was 18.6 billion, with about about 5 billion of that being from China. So, the total market went up 1.4 billion in revenue. In comparison, the sales increase from China was about 1.8 billion. IE, the net sales in the West actually decreased.

Yes, green is the same color everywhere in the world, and Chinese money spends the same as those in the West. Growth is growth, it does not matter where it comes from right? Well, sort of. There are two unfortunate facts that have to be considered. The first is that deeper digging shows that the piece of the pie from China reflects a valuation, not sales. Issues related to copyright infringement and software sharing are ignored, and the reported value reflects what would have been sold, not actually sold. The second is that China, while making great strides, is still an iron curtain country. As was the case with blizzard and wow, the games have to be approved by the government, which can take years. Furthermore, the penetration of computers and other technology is restricted, so tends to be a bit behind the curve. In effect, trends seen in China reflect more what was more than what will be.

So, in short, the storm is coming. As all these pressures increase, PC games will fall off along with the PC. Blizzard knows this. Why do you think Diablo was converted to console and purportedly Titan will be console friendly. Despite what you read on these forums, Blizzard is not stupid.

Hope this helps,

-Giggles

Ps. I know this is a strain for the average product of the modern educational system, but if you think it through, a similar analysis does explain nearly all the doom threads about wow.

Many report dying servers and come and whine on these forums. Yet, the subscription numbers seldom change. This is because there was growth in the Asian markets that offset the fall of subscribers in the west. This was especially the case with the Chinese themed Mists. However, again green is not green, since in same fit of fairness of most international corporations, they charge more in the west. In China, they pay less than 1/3 of the US server price, and a chunk of this fee goes to a Chinese "liscensing" company, so less profit for blizzard. So, if you think it through, this is how WOW can seem to have a healthy number of subscriptions, but Ghostcrawler has to comment on how they are limited by artist time. WOW does not make the amount of money you think it does....

Let Snowfox lay this flat out for you.

For 20 years I've been hearing that PC's were dying. I've heard everything from Amiga's are coming back and going to kill it, to the apple newton would, to macs would, to consoles would... and now celphones and tablets.

It is not dying.

That's just hype people use to sell page hits.
Edited by Giggli on 5/8/2013 10:50 AM PDT
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90 Human Warlock
13370
This just in from Apple. "The PC is dying!!!!".

Gawd, how many decades have I been hearing this...
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90 Human Monk
12555
05/08/2013 09:43 AMPosted by Daladox
Where's the corresponding report of a 2000% increase in NewEgg and TigerDirect sales?


Not everyone builds their own computers. Yes, sales for Dell or HP are going down the drain, still computer parts manufacturers are just fine and dandy. For example, nVidia's GPU's sales for gaming PCs is as strong as ever.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
16465
This just in from Apple. "The PC is dying!!!!".


That would be bad for Apple too, given that they make personal computers.
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90 Human Warlock
13370
Well so far this year I know 8 people that have gotten new PCs. 6 of them had never built a PC before 4 of those 6 chose to go with building their own this time.


This is what I'm seeing. I think that Pandora's box was opened when people finally figured out how easy it is to build one.
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MVP
90 Night Elf Priest
10780
I know it's shocking to think that Snowfox would rush into a thread and post something based on emotion and unsubstantiated facts, but the PC game industry is indeed dying


I like how you downplayed "20 years of hearing chicken littles" as "based on emotion and unsubstantiated facts"

Like the people 10 years ago who insisted they were right, I doubt you'll be here in 10 years to admit you were wrong.
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