Druid SotF/Swiftmend QoL change

90 Troll Druid
HC
12650

I don't see the gain from going for the 4pc until higher gear levels, simply because of the levels of int/mastery we can get to. Care to explain your thought process for doing otherwise?


Mana isn't that much of an issue for me right now, especially with the meta gem. They could come in handy if I feel tight on mana though.

The 2pc allows us to blanket more rejuvs, though. Effectively doing more healing, without getting to the nitty-gritty, because a lot of the end-ticks of Rejuv are just overhealing to begin with.
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100 Night Elf Druid
12720


Mana isn't that much of an issue for me right now, especially with the meta gem. They could come in handy if I feel tight on mana though.

The 2pc allows us to blanket more rejuvs, though. Effectively doing more healing, without getting to the nitty-gritty, because a lot of the end-ticks of Rejuv are just overhealing to begin with.


This is assuming there are GCDs where you aren't casting anything due to mana constraints. If you are swimming in mana then the T14 2pc is worthless. I run with 8700 Spirit and with the addition of the Legendary Meta I feel I'm swimming in mana for all fights with the exception of Iron Quon where I find I'm running a bit on fumes towards the end.
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100 Night Elf Druid
12720
No.

Not going to happen. I'm not saying it's a bad idea or I wouldn't like it.

But it's flat out never going to happen unless Incarnation AND Treants get buffed through the roof.
See, blizzard does this thing, only with resto druids it would appear, they don't want us massively favoring one talent. So they try to make them all equally crap. And the result is still generally the same junk; Everyone is rolling SotF. ToL just doesn't cut it, and FoN is LOLbad. Even on PTR, FoN treants swiftmend ticks are healing for 900. That's not a typo. Nine-Hundred. Healing Numbers like that are utterly pathetic. In BC content. lol 3 expansions later.


Not sure where you are getting your numbers, but PTR FoN is more powerful than what you are stating. I was getting 1500 ticks for SM (it scales with Mastery) and that's without the Mastery buff and the spellpower buff/flask up.

PTR FoN is actually very close to non-T14 SotF.

On paper SotF provides about 400k extra healing every minute while using the WG glyph. Each Treant from Force of Nature provides 142k healing (assuming all the ticks from SM are beneficial and not accounting for Crit). This equals to about 426k every minute. SotF's healing has a tendency to fluctuate more due to more chances to Crit.

On an average fight SotF will very likely provide a little bit more healing over FoN, but it's also assuming perfect execution of using SM every 15 seconds followed by WG (which we all know doesn't happen). This reduces the potency of the talent.

Meanwhile, FoN isn't tied to our instant cast AoE heal. It's off the GCD. It's very flexible and blowing them all at once contributes to almost a 20k HpS increase for the duration. The healing is also probably more beneficial as it is smart with less chance of overheal (think Healing Stream Totem).

I think many people on this forum are selling the PTR version of FoN quite short.
Edited by Juvenate on 5/5/2013 8:21 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
8435
No.

Not going to happen. I'm not saying it's a bad idea or I wouldn't like it.

But it's flat out never going to happen unless Incarnation AND Treants get buffed through the roof.
See, blizzard does this thing, only with resto druids it would appear, they don't want us massively favoring one talent. So they try to make them all equally crap. And the result is still generally the same junk; Everyone is rolling SotF. ToL just doesn't cut it, and FoN is LOLbad. Even on PTR, FoN treants swiftmend ticks are healing for 900. That's not a typo. Nine-Hundred. Healing Numbers like that are utterly pathetic. In BC content. lol 3 expansions later.


Not sure where you are getting your numbers, but PTR FoN is more powerful than what you are stating. I was getting 1500 ticks for SM (it scales with Mastery) and that's without the Mastery buff and the spellpower buff/flask up.

PTR FoN is actually very close to non-T14 SotF.

On paper SotF provides about 400k extra healing every minute while using the WG glyph. Each Treant from Force of Nature provides 142k healing (assuming all the ticks from SM are beneficial and not accounting for Crit). This equals to about 426k every minute. SotF's healing has a tendency to fluctuate more due to more chances to Crit.

On an average fight SotF will very likely provide a little bit more healing over FoN, but it's also assuming perfect execution of using SM every 15 seconds followed by WG (which we all know doesn't happen). This reduces the potency of the talent.

Meanwhile, FoN isn't tied to our instant cast AoE heal. It's off the GCD. It's very flexible and blowing them all at once contributes to almost a 20k HpS increase for the duration. The healing is also probably more beneficial as it is smart with less chance of overheal (think Healing Stream Totem).

I think many people on this forum are selling the PTR version of FoN quite short.


1500/tick is not that much more than the 900 I stated. (which was done with a template resto druid and also without mastery buff and/or food/flask. About a month ago)

I don't see that, 1500/tick, being very valuable either. Hey, maybe if you blow all 3charges at once then all you have is...a second swiftmend once a minute. (Add them up they all equal just under the ticks of the actual resto's SM iirc)

Overall....Total and Complete;

MEH.
Edited by Tonydanza on 5/5/2013 10:43 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650


The 2pc allows us to blanket more rejuvs, though. Effectively doing more healing, without getting to the nitty-gritty, because a lot of the end-ticks of Rejuv are just overhealing to begin with.


This is assuming there are GCDs where you aren't casting anything due to mana constraints. If you are swimming in mana then the T14 2pc is worthless. I run with 8700 Spirit and with the addition of the Legendary Meta I feel I'm swimming in mana for all fights with the exception of Iron Quon where I find I'm running a bit on fumes towards the end.

I'm almost 100% positive we haven't hit this wall yet... Because that's FL/DS-type healing you're referring to.

And you really do need to consider that you are vastly overgearing the content you are doing... And possibly overhealing, too.

Although I would say that we rely heavily on Rejuv to the point that we could get there very soon =\
Edited by Fleurs on 5/5/2013 11:08 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
12720


1500/tick is not that much more than the 900 I stated. (which was done with a template resto druid and also without mastery buff and/or food/flask. About a month ago)

I don't see that, 1500/tick, being very valuable either. Hey, maybe if you blow all 3charges at once then all you have is...a second swiftmend once a minute. (Add them up they all equal just under the ticks of the actual resto's SM iirc)

Overall....Total and Complete;

MEH.


I like to look at FoN as a different contribution to our healing since the redesign. SotF turns WG into a better burst heal at the expense of a longer cd. FoN contributes to our sustained healing. You can literally have a Treant out healing for 3 min with 100% uptime.
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90 Tauren Druid
8435
You can literally have a Treant out healing for 3 min with 100% uptime.


I would be ok with this if it's HT wasn't so terrible. Assuming no overhealing, 3 treants will pump out just over 210 000 or so healing/min. If you pop only 1 treant, therefore having full up time, you're talking 70k.

These numbers obviously will scale for anyone with better gear. (tested with 515ilvl, no raid buffs) but those numbers are alarming to me because the nature of treants HT. It's slooooooooooooow. I've admittedly not used them much at all, but unless they take a snapshot of the raid and do a smart heal - at the completion of HT's cast - that's going to be a lot of overhealing, and the above numbers will drop a lot. Making it rather...bad.
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92 Troll Druid
18530
05/06/2013 02:43 PMPosted by Tonydanza
You can literally have a Treant out healing for 3 min with 100% uptime.


I would be ok with this if it's HT wasn't so terrible. Assuming no overhealing, 3 treants will pump out just over 210 000 or so healing/min. If you pop only 1 treant, therefore having full up time, you're talking 70k.

These numbers obviously will scale for anyone with better gear. (tested with 515ilvl, no raid buffs) but those numbers are alarming to me because the nature of treants HT. It's slooooooooooooow. I've admittedly not used them much at all, but unless they take a snapshot of the raid and do a smart heal - at the completion of HT's cast - that's going to be a lot of overhealing, and the above numbers will drop a lot. Making it rather...bad.


It being HT is a deal breaker. Tranq hitting 12 targets next patch makes it even harder for me to go with that talent, too.
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90 Troll Druid
13720
Make Living Seed an absorb... and the rest is history. Right now Living seed is almost completely useless. More often then not, it goes off while the player has an absorb on them already, putting the entire heal into an over heal. Also, with Living Seed being an absorb instead of a useless overheal, Incarnation would again be a decent raid CD.... Blanket the raid with regrowth Living Seeds... and it'd be like a mini spirit shell. Also, double the healing done by HT, to compensate for the slow cast time...
Edited by Tripcy on 5/7/2013 1:26 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
13720
bump
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