Shaman heals?

100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
And we won't have the 2 amazing cooldowns anymore next patch, because they are going to be dwarved by the 240% buffs to DH/Tranq/Revival.


In 25 person raids only.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10445
Resto shaman at the moment is such a good debate. The thing you see most from all the shamans that I've personally seen is that healing stream is part of our top 3 heals every time. Unless your guild is 2 healing bosses and using you, your not going to see much on a healing meter for yourself because to be honest, in a 10 man environment, the other healers are going to keep the raid topped up and your basically just going to be used as a CD essentially. This xpac I hate being resto. But at the same time with the way it takes to level and gear alts. I don't really know if I want to level my priest/pally/druid just so I can be a contender in healing meters. I'd rather be used for the good utilization that I do have in boss fights.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
05/03/2013 04:31 AMPosted by Akatia
We are currently doing worse on meters than most healers (if not all, for some fights).


FTFY. There's no evidence that groups with shaman are less successful at actually winning fights. (To be fair, this *is* a difficult thing to measure, but that's no excuse for not even trying and insisting that the meters are actual performance.)


This argument has been used to justify underperforming healers since forever. The truth is that meters and logs are the only measure of performance we have. Ignoring it is just ignoring the only performance measure there is.

Also, logic alone shows we are CLEARLY the only healer missing any real method for spread healing. Add to this the fact that there are far more spread healing situations than stacked. That makes us a straight up liability and you know it.
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100 Draenei Shaman
Sif
12740
shamans are weird at the moment. a lot of people are experiencing a lack of heals in PvE, however some shamans are finding it quite easy to destroy any other healers in PvE. I am one of the ones that is experiencing a lack of heals, not because my healing is low, but because all my heals end up as overhealing as i'm forced to stack as much spirit and crit as I can to prevent myself going oom.

although there is clearly difficulty for people in PvE, from what I hear shamans could not be any easier to play in PvP. so blizzard buffing them insanely to make up for the difficulty in PvE would in turn make them even stronger in PvP. (from what I hear a lot of the top ranking PvP healers are resto shamans)

Instead of buffing them like a lot of people are saying blizz should do, they should just re do the entire spec, or even class. however, ele and enhance have no issues keeping up with other classes in my experience. but repairing resto is a must do, shaman is such a fun class to play, and why should the people that just can't get there head around how to beat that resto druid, holy pally, or priest have to change to another class to keep up? I know for a fact that there are far more people struggling to keep up with other classes than there are having trouble giving the other classes something to heal.
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100 Draenei Shaman
Sif
12740
nobody can touch a shamans burst potential? so you've never healed with a paladin?
AoE healing hey... really havn't healed with a pally lately have you?

A holy paladin will !@#$ all over a resto shaman in any field of healing any day of the week.
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From my own experience in this tier, resto is in an okay place. We will never beat a pally/disc on meters but oh well. These people that say meters are the only way to judge our performance are not telling the truth. Honestly so many people try to look at healing meters like dps and its a mistake. Granted HPS can give a good baseline to see if people are really under performing but when you look at burst heals/effective healing shamans are fine.

We are a great support healing class. Most rosters fill out the first spot or two with a disc priest and/or holy pally but when it comes to that third healer spot (10-mans) I almost always see groups/guilds favoring and actively looking for a resto/ele sham or resto/balance druid. I'm good with that. A good amount of the top guilds in the world, even in 10mans (Paragon for example) run with a resto sham...even through their progression early in the tier they had a resto sham.

If you want to top the healing meters then Shaman is not for you. If you really enjoy the class and play with a group that can notice success over meters then you will be a great asset to a raid.
Edited by Drofty on 7/5/2013 12:08 AM PDT
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100 Troll Priest
10150
From my own experience in this tier, resto is in an okay place. We will never beat a pally/disc on meters but oh well. These people that say meters are the only way to judge our performance are not telling the truth. Honestly so many people try to look at healing meters like dps and its a mistake. Granted HPS can give a good baseline to see if people are really under performing but when you look at burst heals/effective healing shamans are fine.

We are a great support healing class. Most rosters fill out the first spot or two with a disc priest and/or holy pally but when it comes to that third healer spot (10-mans) I almost always see groups/guilds favoring and actively looking for a resto/ele sham or resto/balance druid. I'm good with that. A good amount of the top guilds in the world, even in 10mans (Paragon for example) run with a resto sham...even trough their progression early in the tier they had a resto sham.

If you want to top the healing matters then Shaman is not for you. If you really enjoy the class and play with a group that can notice success over meters then you will be a great asset to a raid.


Best shaman post I have seen in a very very long time.
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07/04/2013 08:56 AMPosted by Stormic
shamans are weird at the moment. a lot of people are experiencing a lack of heals in PvE, however some shamans are finding it quite easy to destroy any other healers in PvE. I am one of the ones that is experiencing a lack of heals, not because my healing is low, but because all my heals end up as overhealing as i'm forced to stack as much spirit and crit as I can to prevent myself going oom.


Without trying to get into some forum battle, with that much spirit and crit you should RARELY EVER have oom issues. I have lower spirit and crit and even when 2 healing fights in throne (10 mans) I don't really go oom (Unless heavy triage healing is needed). If it's a "dps/tanks taking obscene amount on unavoidable damage issue" or "your co-healers are just bad issue" than I'm sorry for you, one healer to another. I would try getting a bit more mastery imo. As a resto sham you don't really ever want to be below 50% mastery....especially in 10 mans. I know crit has become a lot more valuable in MoP as regen stat, but again, I still think our throughput bread and butter (by far) is our mastery. We are not here to top meter's. We are here to pick up the raid quick and keep everyone up during heavy aoe damage (And those oh !@#$ moments...Iron Quon fist smash as an example) or triage healing...that is our specialty, and our mastery is insanely awesome in helping us do that still. Crit is still really nice without a doubt, but I see a lot of shamans going heavy into crit and forgetting about mastery which goes against our "healing role" imo. The 4-piece also devalues crit as a throughput stat (The regen component stays the same with the 4pc) further pushing mastery as a stat we should not ignore.
Edited by Drofty on 7/5/2013 12:49 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
12525
Resto shamans own.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
These people that say meters are the only way to judge our performance are not telling the truth.


I have never heard this argument seriously made by anyone. There are obviously lots of ways to judge our performance. But the only real empirical way to judge the performance of the spec overall is with aggregate log data of Healing done and HPS.

We all get it. The log is not the end-all-be-all. But neither is it meaningless.
Edited by Luvbacon on 7/5/2013 7:50 PM PDT
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07/05/2013 07:41 PMPosted by Luvbacon
These people that say meters are the only way to judge our performance are not telling the truth.


I have never heard this argument seriously made by anyone. There are obviously lots of ways to judge our performance. But the only real empirical way to judge the performance of the spec overall is with aggregate log data of Healing done and HPS.

We all get it. The log is not the end-all-be-all. But neither is it meaningless.


Agreed, even though you were the one who said "The truth is that meters and logs are the only measure of performance we have". Meters and logs 100% have a place in evaluation of performance, but reading meters for healers is different than dps. Healing Done and HPS are okay baseline indicators to see if someone is really under performing at a glance but you cannot judge a healer solely on log data of overall healing done and HPS, the role of healing is just too different from DPS with which you can basically look at the meters for over 95% of the whole story. Effective healing is really the way to go though and I think Shamans are in a fine place in this department. And also, I'm not trying to argue that resto shams are op as long as you don't look at logs.

We will rarely ever be the top healer on the meter's, which I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that's OK! (Some special instances we will but its rare this expansion so far). That does not mean there is something wrong with us and our mechanics and that we need to be buffed right away. Too many people complain when their class is not consistently the top of their respective roll. If you want to top the meter and that's all you care about go learn to play a disc priest/holy pally or MW monk well. If you enjoy playing a resto shaman and are good at it, you will always find a spot on a solid raid team and that's the truth. Like I have already said in a previous post, when you look at WoWProgress guild recruiting, so many of them are looking for resto/ele shams or resto/balance druids. We are a very strong asset to a raid group. If we were really in that bad of a place, no one would want us.

There is a reason raids don't consist of 2 Prot Pallies, 3 Disc priests and 5 Warlocks/Mages even though the "logs" say that might be the best way to do it based on numbers. Certain classes bring other important assets to a raid which is what makes it possible for people to play the classes they like and still be invited to a raid despite what logs show on the overall picture. I have never once been told no because of a certain class I play, unless the group already has one of the same class. If you can heal well, you can heal well...and there is nothing that is so negative about a resto shaman that you can't heal well with right now.

And lastly I personally think shaman's and druids are the two best swing healers in the game. There respective tool-kits fill the 3rd (10man) 6th (25man) healer spot well its crazy. We are the oh !@#$ get everyone up now specialty class between our cooldowns and mastery...If you don't like it well then I'm sorry, does not mean we need a major overhaul. Learn to play one of our dps OS's well and you become insanely valuable to a raid team who knows the value of a good shaman.
Edited by Drofty on 7/6/2013 12:39 AM PDT
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07/05/2013 07:41 PMPosted by Luvbacon
These people that say meters are the only way to judge our performance are not telling the truth.


I have never heard this argument seriously made by anyone.


It's a straw man

Ignore it.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
Agreed, even though you were the one who said "The truth is that meters and logs are the only measure of performance we have". Meters and logs 100% have a place in evaluation of performance, but reading meters for healers is different than dps.


Semantics. You know as well as I do that I was referring to our spec's overall performance. What measure could be used if not hps to measure a spec's overall performance? Now when talking about one player's healing, it's a different story. You have a lot of things to look at. Primarily, are we killing the boss? But also overhealing, active time, etc. When looking at a spec, it's not that easy. The only thing we really have is hps.

Healing Done and HPS are okay baseline indicators to see if someone is really under performing at a glance but you cannot judge a healer solely on log data of overall healing done and HPS,


If "Healing Done and HPS are okay baseline indicators to see if someone is really under performing at a glance", than it is also an "okay baseline indicators to see if [a spec] is really under performing at a glance". Yes? This is the point we've been making. There is really no other data we can look at and to argue that hps doesn't matter is just argue to ignore the only data we have.
the role of healing is just too different from DPS with which you can basically look at the meters for over 95% of the whole story. Effective healing is really the way to go though and I think Shamans are in a fine place in this department. And also, I'm not trying to argue that resto shams are op as long as you don't look at logs.

Shaman underperform in effective healing too. But if not hps, what measure would you recommend to determine if shaman healing is underpowered overall? Divination perhaps? The argument to ignore hps is the argument to ignore shaman healing problems.
Edited by Luvbacon on 7/6/2013 4:08 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Shaman
13360
Resto shamans own...the last place spot in the meters.


Fixed that for you
Edited by Dichotomous on 7/6/2013 4:37 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
10395
07/06/2013 04:35 PMPosted by Dichotomous
Resto shamans own...the last place spot in the meters.


Fixed that for you


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z1a2h0mrm0qzl8sj/sum/healingDone/?s=3804&e=4302#Sensations

You sure about that?
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
07/07/2013 09:15 AMPosted by Trolljin


Fixed that for you


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z1a2h0mrm0qzl8sj/sum/healingDone/?s=3804&e=4302#Sensations

You sure about that?


So you picked a log of probably the strongest fight this tier for Resto Shaman (only Ra-Den is possibly stronger for us), that is being 2 healed with a Resto Shaman and a Resto Druid, with no absorb healer present. You just picked about the most favorable possible situation for Resto Shaman output.
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96 Pandaren Shaman
6750
shamans are weird at the moment. a lot of people are experiencing a lack of heals in PvE, however some shamans are finding it quite easy to destroy any other healers in PvE. I am one of the ones that is experiencing a lack of heals, not because my healing is low, but because all my heals end up as overhealing as i'm forced to stack as much spirit and crit as I can to prevent myself going oom.

although there is clearly difficulty for people in PvE, from what I hear shamans could not be any easier to play in PvP. so blizzard buffing them insanely to make up for the difficulty in PvE would in turn make them even stronger in PvP. (from what I hear a lot of the top ranking PvP healers are resto shamans)

Instead of buffing them like a lot of people are saying blizz should do, they should just re do the entire spec, or even class. however, ele and enhance have no issues keeping up with other classes in my experience. but repairing resto is a must do, shaman is such a fun class to play, and why should the people that just can't get there head around how to beat that resto druid, holy pally, or priest have to change to another class to keep up? I know for a fact that there are far more people struggling to keep up with other classes than there are having trouble giving the other classes something to heal.


Arise chicken, chicken arise!
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90 Goblin Shaman
13360


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z1a2h0mrm0qzl8sj/sum/healingDone/?s=3804&e=4302#Sensations

You sure about that?


So you picked a log of probably the strongest fight this tier for Resto Shaman (only Ra-Den is possibly stronger for us), that is being 2 healed with a Resto Shaman and a Resto Druid, with no absorb healer present. You just picked about the most favorable possible situation for Resto Shaman output.


He also picked a fight where the druid was curbstomping the shaman until his untimely death.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z1a2h0mrm0qzl8sj/sum/healingDone/?s=3804&e=4204

I didn't reply because I figured he was just being deliberately obtuse. Responding to the people who think it is fun to troll a class badly in need of help is some vexatious stuff.
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90 Human Hunter
8020
Ehh. shamans.
Edited by Gaarn on 7/7/2013 1:13 PM PDT
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