Unholy DK: Build 16911 - New Sims

90 Human Rogue
9780
Just implemented the new changes in simcraft, looks to be about a ~7k increase in dps.

Old: (Live)
http://hostr.co/file/L2LPUMwvuxDO/Screenshot-on-2013-05-02-at-21.05.07.png

New: (PTR)
http://hostr.co/file/dTzR4kSkkncf/Screenshot-on-2013-05-02-at-21.05.35.png

Do note that this was without altering the priority list, looks like SS now does more DPET than DnD and we will most likely not use it in our single target rotation anymore.
Edited by Dansu on 5/2/2013 6:09 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
I'm so glad we don't have to use DnD in single-target rotations. That was annoying.

Sad that they're killing festerblight, but any specific playstyle that requires addons to work isn't likely to last.
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90 Human Rogue
9780
I'm so glad we don't have to use DnD in single-target rotations. That was annoying.

Sad that they're killing festerblight, but any specific playstyle that requires addons to work isn't likely to last.


Agreed, both were pretty dumb lol.
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90 Goblin Death Knight
12800
I'm so glad we don't have to use DnD in single-target rotations. That was annoying.

Sad that they're killing festerblight, but any specific playstyle that requires addons to work isn't likely to last.


Was it confirmed anywhere that Festerblight will cease to be? I don't understand why that playstyle would be dead. It involves strengthened disease damage above all. FsS isn't even our main damage source.
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90 Troll Death Knight
15345
Sad that they're killing festerblight, but any specific playstyle that requires addons to work isn't likely to last.


That's a ridiculous statement. Festerblight is neither dead, nor does it require addons to operate any more than the next spec.

This is still a buff even for Festerblight. Scourge Strike far out damages Festering Strike as it is, and this is just going to enforce that more.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
This is still a buff even for Festerblight. Scourge Strike far out damages Festering Strike as it is, and this is just going to enforce that more.

Festerblight only works because the damage gained from keeping higher-DPS diseases is greater than the damage lost by dropping Scourge Strike in lieu of more Festering Strikes.

With Festering Strike cut by 10% and Scourge Strike buffed by 20%, the opportunity cost of using dropping 2x Scourge Strike in favor 1x Festering Strike is too high to make it worth doing, even if the absolute damage for the festerblight rotation goes up.

Festering Strike on live is 200% weapon damage plus 197.
Scourge Strike on live is 135% weapon damage plus 173, and 50% of that amount as Shadow.

In order for Festerblight to be better than a normal rotation, the increased disease damage needs to match the difference of 70% of weapon damage plus 149, with 50% extra as Shadow.

Come next patch, FeS will be 175% weapon damage plus 172.
Scourge Strike will be 165% weapon damage plus 211, and 50% of that amount as Shadow.

In this scenario, in order for Festerblight to be better than a normal rotation, the increased disease damage needs to match the difference of 155% weapon damage plus 250, with 50% extra as shadow.

I don't see any patch notes that show disease damage increasing by a huge amount, ergo, Festerblight - which is already barely a win - won't be. We'll still want to try to refresh our diseases at high damage values, obviously, but it won't be worth sacrificing Scourge Strikes to do it.
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90 Troll Death Knight
15345
Festerblight is more than barely a win. Several thousand DPS is a large gap; barely would be a would be more in range of a few hundred.

-
Edit: Removed this part due to the after work sludge obviously getting to me. I quoted damage as ~400k instead of ~4mil if that's any indication. Still the example below helps prove a point; even on a one to one basis between the two strikes (not realistic), this change is a buff. Festerblight doesn't have that one to one ratio though, more like 1:1.3 (FS:SS), which just further increases the gain here.
-

Lets assume an average weapon damage of 100, to make this easy to look at.

Live:

FS - 200% + 197 --- 200 + 197 = 397
SS - 135% + 173 --- 135 + 173 = 308
Total ----- 705

PTR:

FS - 175% + 172 --- 175 + 172 = 347
SS - 165% + 211 --- 165 + 211 = 376
Total ----- 723

The absolute worst thing I can see happening is that we'll break even if we have to use Festering Strike a bit more on one fight or another; but it's definitely still a buff in most situations, and it's definitely NOT breaking the play style.
Edited by Manarri on 5/4/2013 8:39 AM PDT
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90 Troll Death Knight
15345
After making a mistake in my last post, I'm going to use a different approach.

From LFR Ji-Kin last night:

Festering Strike - 58 hits - 3,185,656 damage
Scourge Strike - 80 hits - 2,878,274 damage

Festering is going to take a 12.5% damage nerf - 3,185,656 x .125 = 398,207

Scourge Strike is getting a 22% damage buff - 2,878,274 x .22 = 633,220.28

-398,207 + 633,220 = 235,013

Even though Festerblight uses fewer Scourge Strikes than the traditional play style, it still uses it often enough for it to be a gain.

Edit: Important - Please note that this calculation only includes the physical portion of Scourge Strike, and there is the shadow portion, that would be roughly 80% of the physical damage, not included. The shadow component of Scourge Strike will receive the same percentage buff as the physical, further increasing the gain from this coming change.
Edited by Manarri on 5/5/2013 12:47 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Death Knight
10215
Point, set, math(pun intended), Manarri!
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100 Draenei Death Knight
6375
Even though Festerblight uses fewer Scourge Strikes than the traditional play style, it still uses it often enough for it to be a gain.


I don't think you're understanding Krinu's argument. 5.3 Festerblight may be more DPS than 5.2 Festerblight, but it won't be more DPS than 5.3 non-Festerblight (i.e. prioritizing SS for as many U/D runes as possible, using FS only with lower-value runes, and reapplying diseases when you have to) because non-Festerblight is getting a much bigger buff (since it uses SS more often) and the two playstyles are pretty close in 5.2. (As you can see, I don't have personal experience with that, but it seems to be widely agreed.)
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90 Troll Death Knight
15345
Traditional Unholy is definitely getting a larger buff, I agree. But so far Festerblight is still ahead. As stated in a blue post, this will just bring the two closer together and prevent Festerblight from being entirely mandatory, as they considered Festerblight acceptable as high risk with moderate gain.

Although even with this gap being closed, I have to say that Festerblight has the advantage in the fights we're currently using it on. We use Festerblight when we have sustained time on a single target, and two things will keep it there: a Rogue and Tricks of the Trade, or any additional targets we can spread DoTs to. Council of Elders, for example, will still lend the upper hand to Festerblight and stronger DoTs on more targets, as well as Tortoros and Primordius. Throw a Rogue into your group and Festerblight will blow traditional Unholy out of the water on other more single target focused fights, like Jin'rokh, Durumu, Lei Shen, and I'd guess even Twin Consorts. That is, if traditional will even pass Festerblight which doesn't seem to be the case so far.
Edited by Manarri on 5/4/2013 5:53 PM PDT
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100 Orc Death Knight
14970
Manarri
90 Troll Death Knight
Team Dome Sesh
14945
After making a mistake in my last post, I'm going to use a different approach.

From LFR Ji-Kin last night:

Festering Strike - 58 hits - 3,185,656 damage
Scourge Strike - 80 hits - 2,878,274 damage


This math is absolutely rediculous, Youre missing one half of scourge strike somewhere in here either the shadow or the yellow damage.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7tb4srbpaglsc5g1/details/23/?s=1746&e=2085
You all do realize SS hits in two parts....both which are being buffed as the shadow damage is % based and scales with mastery...? This is a buff for festerblight and is far from spec breaking not to mention the fact that traditional unholy will still be subpar. thanks blizz ^.^
Edited by Runíc on 5/5/2013 12:00 PM PDT
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100 Human Death Knight
15935
Manarii is correct, Festerblight will be viable and still pull way ahead
Blizzard's goal is to bring normal unholy closer to Festerblight since it was starting to become manadatory for all Unholy Dks to do festerblight. The issue with Festerblight being mandatory is that most players cant either pull it off or dont even know it exists.

When 5.3 I expect mages QQing that Unholy Dk's are beating them.........and I shall feast on those tears
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90 Troll Death Knight
15345
Manarri
90 Troll Death Knight
Team Dome Sesh
14945
After making a mistake in my last post, I'm going to use a different approach.

From LFR Ji-Kin last night:

Festering Strike - 58 hits - 3,185,656 damage
Scourge Strike - 80 hits - 2,878,274 damage


This math is absolutely rediculous, Youre missing one half of scourge strike somewhere in here either the shadow or the yellow damage.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7tb4srbpaglsc5g1/details/23/?s=1746&e=2085
You all do realize SS hits in two parts....both which are being buffed as the shadow damage is % based and scales with mastery...? This is a buff for festerblight and is far from spec breaking not to mention the fact that traditional unholy will still be subpar. thanks blizz ^.^


I assumed that most in the forums knew about the division of Scourge Strike when looking at Recount, so part of the point I was making is that it wasn't even necessary to calculate the shadow side of the damage to net a gain. It's why I was saying that Scourge Strike far, far out damages Festering Strike on any day even for Festerblight with fewer uses. (I'll edit back to clarify.)

I disagree about traditional being subpar though. This buff should bring it up nicely, and it'll only be subpar if you're comparing it to Festerblight.
Edited by Manarri on 5/5/2013 12:42 PM PDT
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