Suggestions to make Surv/MM different

90 Tauren Hunter
10315
Binding shot was a great answer from them to make Marksman a little bit different than Survival. Yeah, apparently they don't read the class forums, but if it wasn't a coincidence that there has been suggestions to give MM something unique (even binding shot was suggested to make MM only) in the class forums and it happens in 5.3, then I'll take the chance and make another suggestion.

Still, Marksman and Survival, compared to any other class with any of their two specializations, are way too similar and new players will barely gain anything non-baseline while leveling up. If they do gain something for their specialization, it's almost always just a passive, which passives are only so helpful for making a spec unique.

None of my suggestions would nerf hunters, they are intended to either do nothing or buff them. It's just mostly to make the playstyle unique, not change the effectiveness (unless more effective, balancing can come later). For-fun changes.

-Marksman could receive a physical-based arcane shot, and survival keeps the original arcane shot. Damage output somehow could be balanced accordingly since it'll be affected by armor.
-Survival could receive a nature/poison-based arcane shot, and marksman keeps the original arcane shot. (personally, I think a lightning-based focus dump would be sweet for surv).
-Or any other way of making a different focus dump for the specs.

I see a lot of hunters commenting on Arcane Shot being boring for all three specs. Although marks and surv already have different shots and I would personally stress different abilities, I've seen this mentioned a lot.

-Marksman could receive some sort of far-range ability or a temporary range increase cooldown, mentioned a lot.

-Survival could take more advantage of Camouflage than other hunter specs, considering it is equal in effectiveness for all three hunter specs even though Survival looks and feels like it would be intended to truly benefit from camouflage.

-Survival could use a unique trap (possibly a shadow-based trap). Trap mastery makes it clear that SV is the trap-based spec, and a unique trap would only make sense + isn't already in the game.
Edited by Bavok on 5/7/2013 2:24 PM PDT
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100 Orc Hunter
12590
-Survival could use a unique trap (possibly a shadow-based trap). Trap mastery makes it clear that SV is the trap-based spec, and a unique trap would only make sense + isn't already in the game.


They tried to do this with entrapment. It's the main thing I love about survival, snake trap and ice trap roots.

-Survival could take more advantage of Camouflage than other hunter specs, considering it is equal in effectiveness for all three hunter specs even though Survival looks and feels like it would be intended to truly benefit from camouflage.


I like this idea since survival has particularly bad... survivability. BM has multiple CC breakers, MM has at least a -tiny- amount of self healing with chimera shot. It'd be nice if camouflage could also be some sort of damage reduction CD for SV.
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90 Human Hunter
7160
i'm not really sure how changing the arcane shot to physical or nature damage would make the specs' playstyles different.. mechanically they would still feel roughly the same even if you changed how much focus they cost, because they're instant cast focus dumps. i think the problem with lack of variety across hunter specs isn't so much what the abilities are, but more what they do: each spec has a nuke (explosive/kill command/chimera), serpent sting, focus regenerator, focus dump, and random other button you hit on occasion (BA/focus fire/aimed shot)

side note trap mastery for SV should unlink explosive trap/black arrow and ice trap/freezing trap

make explosive trap only do damage if there are 3 or more targets in its radius so people don't use it in single target PVE, or something
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90 Orc Hunter
15310
MM needs to be a petless spec with cast time nukes.

EDIT: AKA sniper/ranger type
Edited by Unclewilly on 5/7/2013 3:17 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Hunter
10315
MM being petless would be wonderful IMO, sadly I think I remember them somewhere opposing the idea of petless hunter, but really....
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100 Human Hunter
9755
Post these suggestions on the dps forums and PTR forums, so they actually get read and have alts and casuals opinions, also and tweet @holinka and @ghostcrawler.

A fellow Hunter already asked Holinka about a class re-make and his official answer was a bit dodgy, stating that we are a popular class and a remake can be jarring.

I don't care: anyone who mains a Hunter and is a REAL Hunter knows that this class as-is is bull!@#$.
-BM should be a melee tree, also...so we can be like Rexxar.
-Arcane shot should be removed; each spec should have its own dump.
-Survival could have a selfheal and be viable in pvp instead of their dots tickling and hitting weaker than a 90-pound %^-*!@#$%^-*
-Silencing Shot could be baseline, and tier 30 come 5.3 could be an actual choice instead of an automatic no-brainer pick.
-Same goes to tier 75.... Anyone who pvp's will pick Blink Strikes, because Crows and Lynx are worthless for pvp.
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90 Worgen Hunter
8495

I don't care: anyone who mains a Hunter and is a REAL Hunter knows that this class as-is is bull!@#$.


I don't think the class is BS, but I do think we have a lot of clunky outdated mechanics and have to use a lot more of our talents to actually be effective (e.g. the 3 button classes vs. what seems like 200 keybinds for hunters, and yes, I know I'm exaggerating a bit).

The single thing that frustrates me more than anything, is pure DPS classes not being top DPS and losing out to hybrids that can heal and tank and DPS.
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100 Troll Hunter
16450
The single thing that frustrates me more than anything, is pure DPS classes not being top DPS and losing out to hybrids that can heal and tank and DPS.

Actually, I am more upset at the raid utility that hybrid DPS can bring while they are DPS'ing, than them being able to provide the tanking role or healing role. The gear requirements are typically noticeably different, and they are not DPS'ing while they are tanking.

I.e. Shaman Healing Tide Totem (Talented one if I have the name wrong); Palading AOE DPS/Healing Hammer; Druid popping a CD to get a "good" tranquility; etc.

Hunter's have nothing to even match up with Devotion Aura.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
13515
And blizzards excuse for not giving us a raid cd is that we are the most represented class in the game... but we are being sat on progression so raid teams can bring other classes, even baddly geared/played classes, because they can put out more dps AND bring raid cooldowns to the table. This is true even if said player pulls less dps than the hunter who got sat, all due to the raid cd.

Rogues get a 20% damage reduction cd for the raid, warlocks a battle rez that isnt a 20 yard range from a specific pet (which often cant be out as the raid needs a diff buff from the hunter). Mages bring hero. and dks have brez and can soak some magic mechanics. What we can bring thats valued as a raid cd (hero and Brez) are things requiring a single target spec (which isnt as valued this tier) and a 4 sec delay plus dps loss to get the cd out (since said hunter would prob be bringing a missing buff.) To top it off, all these other classes and hybrids which have raid CDs also can pull more dps than us. Since blizz doesn't seem to make many kite fights anymore, our one big advantage (our mobility) isn't a factor.
Edited by Eurugan on 5/8/2013 6:38 AM PDT
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90 Human Hunter
7085
-Marksman could receive some sort of far-range ability or a temporary range increase cooldown, mentioned a lot.


If the Blizz designers are so worried about jarring our delicate sensibilities they could take an existing ability and augment it to make it more unique to the spec and helpful to our instance groups. I think, since we MM hunters spend so much time making sure our Aimed Shot is on target already, why not make it available from greater range? I appreciate the 5.2 buff in damage and reduced cast time, but this would add a clear advantage to an existing ability.

I also agree that many of the cross-over abilities feel foreign to those of us who have chosen the MM spec. Dire Beast and Crows (just to mention 2) have a very BM feel and I would prefer to see more talent specific skills to further highlight those differences.
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100 Troll Hunter
16450
And blizzards excuse for not giving us a raid cd is that we are the most represented class in the game... but we are being sat on progression so raid teams can bring other classes, even baddly geared/played classes, because they can put out more dps AND bring raid cooldowns to the table. This is true even if said player pulls less dps than the hunter who got sat, all due to the raid cd.

Rogues get a 20% damage reduction cd for the raid, warlocks a battle rez that isnt a 20 yard range from a specific pet (which often cant be out as the raid needs a diff buff from the hunter). Mages bring hero. and dks have brez and can soak some magic mechanics. What we can bring thats valued as a raid cd (hero and Brez) are things requiring a single target spec (which isnt as valued this tier) and a 4 sec delay plus dps loss to get the cd out (since said hunter would prob be bringing a missing buff.) To top it off, all these other classes and hybrids which have raid CDs also can pull more dps than us. Since blizz doesn't seem to make many kite fights anymore, our one big advantage (our mobility) isn't a factor.

Yep - which is why my issue isn't that a hybrid is out performing me, my issue is essentially all other DPS specs are more valued than any of my specs.

Typically, you want 1 hunter for MD (which has a very minor usefulness; Tortos Bats it is great for, but a good tank doesn't really "need" that...and sometimes I swear those bats have wonky aggro logic anyways...I have seen them bee-line for the Tortos tank after I hit them all with Holy Wrath, and fling a shield at them), filling in a missing buff, and soaking up the Agil Mail/Ranged Weapon drops. Maybe 2, if someone was sick that day (okay...slight exaggerations).
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6550
Silencing shot should be baseline.
MM as a petless spec would be great
SV should get stealth without a speed penalty
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90 Night Elf Hunter
16385
05/07/2013 07:33 PMPosted by Önslaught
-Survival could have a selfheal and be viable in pvp

Life Leach on Black Arrow would be cool and a dispel penalty.

Said it another thread... Blizz has done a tremendous amount of dev on hunters, BUT they have never imo hit the mark.

At minimum they need to slim down our tool-kit. Consolidate / Trim our abilities, then buff as necessary.

We can pretty much do everything, except it requires twice the work or is half as effective.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
If the class were to be reworked......

Beast Mastery: Melee spec to fit the standard archetype used in everything else. Rexxar being the base. Melee fighter who tag teams with their pet. Uses brutal melee strikes and pet synergizing abilities like Focus Fire and Bestial Wrath

Marksmanship: Petless raw physical damage sharpshooter. None of this Arcane or Nature garbage. Just a rain of ammunition, heavy hits, some bleeding, and a lot of gunpowder.

Survival: None of this Arcane and Shadow magic nonsense. Give us Rambo. Improvised explosives, guerilla tactics, and a multitude of different animal venoms.
Edited by Bullettime on 5/8/2013 10:12 AM PDT
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100 Troll Hunter
16450
Marksmanship: Petless raw physical damage sharpshooter. None of this Arcane or Nature garbage. Just a rain of ammunition, heavy hits, some bleeding, and a lot of gunpowder.

I don't think Blizz will go for petless being a standard, option maybe.

Rest of it, /sign (although I do like my revamp...it didn't have a melee hunter though)
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95 Night Elf Hunter
8030
Marksmanship: Petless raw physical damage sharpshooter. None of this Arcane or Nature garbage. Just a rain of ammunition, heavy hits, some bleeding, and a lot of gunpowder
blizzard needs to copy paste this to the MM class description.

Give us Rambo.

:')

I don't think Blizz will go for pet less being a standard, option maybe.

dps wise it doesn't sound like an issue but when you start concidering the utility the pet provides when he's by your side vs the utility you lack while he's not, it starts to sounds like one of those "eating your cake and having it too dilemmas"
Edited by Farsightrx on 5/8/2013 1:49 PM PDT
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90 Human Hunter
10960
Suggesting MM as a petless spec is pure fantasy. Indulge away, of course, it's a free country...
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95 Night Elf Hunter
8030
not saying that it must be all or nothing when it comes to MM's pets, but in my oppinion it would be more difficult to figure out how to handle it as a balanced option, than to simply rework MM to be petless. besides not every one likes the pet getting in the way, or going the wrong way. and once the pet is gone MM will provide that extra 10%-15% of the damage himself making it feel more distinct damage wise aswell.
Edited by Farsightrx on 5/8/2013 2:22 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
7355
MM should be all cast times, really and maybe a few quick shots other then Arcane Shot
...Survival should, ACTUALLY be survival, it should have self healing, dots and, when it comes down to it great escape abilities and melee attacks.

SV should also get alot more dots then the two or three we have at this stage in Wow
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
7355
Suggesting MM as a petless spec is pure fantasy. Indulge away, of course, it's a free country...

Why?
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