Budd Nedreck - Slowly Recovering?

Harrison Jones was funny in ZA and Grizzly Hills because he was a quick, one-off joke that poked gentle fun at Indiana Jones as a series.

Uldum was that horrible nerd who is obsessed with Indiana Jones and wears a leather jacket and fedora everywhere and spends every social outing he goes on forcing lines from the movie into every single conversation and you just want him to shut up and get a life already.

Also the Pygmies were just straight up racist.
Edited by Jaelara on 5/9/2013 7:56 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
9425
Also the Pygmies were just straight up racist.


The pygmies were based off of hair metal groups from the 80s. How is that racist?
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05/09/2013 10:09 PMPosted by Kerasth
Also the Pygmies were just straight up racist.


The pygmies were based off of hair metal groups from the 80s. How is that racist?


Pygmies themselves are dressed and act like stereotypical african tribesmen, being constantly sneaky and thieving and both culturally and intellectually inferior, wearing grass skirts, using crude flint weapons, and so on. They are also taken as slaves in certain quests. Even the name Pygmy has traditionally been used to refer to multiple central African tribes. While the devs can claim they were based on metal group roadies, they ACT like a lot of very uncomfortable and hurtful stereotypes about african people and are placed in a milieu that invites such comparisons.
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90 Dwarf Priest
10685
Well said.
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90 Tauren Druid
9425
05/09/2013 11:29 PMPosted by Jaelara


The pygmies were based off of hair metal groups from the 80s. How is that racist?


Pygmies themselves are dressed and act like stereotypical african tribesmen, being constantly sneaky and thieving and both culturally and intellectually inferior, wearing grass skirts, using crude flint weapons, and so on. They are also taken as slaves in certain quests. Even the name Pygmy has traditionally been used to refer to multiple central African tribes. While the devs can claim they were based on metal group roadies, they ACT like a lot of very uncomfortable and hurtful stereotypes about african people and are placed in a milieu that invites such comparisons.


Those would be great points, were it not for the fact that they draw no inspiration from the sources you claim. Their behavior, low intellect, and outfits (spiked wristbands, kaiser helmets, etc) are all parodies of hair metal bands, and the name is only refers to their size. One of their idle animations is headbanging while doing the sign of horns.
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Again, "Inspiration" doesn't matter. They very, very clearly, due to the milieu in which they are placed, their appearance, and general mode of dress and action, very much call to mind horrible unfounded stereotypes about african tribes in the middle of an african-themed zone. One idle animation does not excuse that.
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90 Tauren Druid
9425
Again, "Inspiration" doesn't matter. They very, very clearly, due to the milieu in which they are placed, their appearance, and general mode of dress and action, very much call to mind horrible unfounded stereotypes about african tribes in the middle of an african-themed zone. One idle animation does not excuse that.


Did you miss the part where I explained that their low intellect, thoughtless destructiveness, and fashion are parodies of hair metal bands? What African tribes wear kaiser helmets? "One idle animation" was not the entire basis of my argument.

Also, inspiration does matter. If I were to make a parody mocking emo kids and someone mistook it for mocking people with depression, it doesn't mean I'm actually making fun of people with depression. Blizzard made a parody mocking decades-old music groups, and you're mistaking it for mocking largely-obscure African tribes, but that doesn't mean that they're actually making fun of said tribes.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
9535
Again, "Inspiration" doesn't matter. They very, very clearly, due to the milieu in which they are placed, their appearance, and general mode of dress and action, very much call to mind horrible unfounded stereotypes about african tribes in the middle of an african-themed zone. One idle animation does not excuse that.


i would call that a mix of a mediteranian, arab, african, and space monster zone. it is semi tropical and filled with egyptian looking stuff, but also has heavy middle eastern themes in addition to what seem like greek, and roman themes, added to by the clearly western goblins who make up much of the questing.

it isnt central africa "aftrican" it is more middle eastern in my view since the egyptian themes are very middle eastern rather than african propper. it is an actual melting pot of cultures in game and in the real world.
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Also, inspiration does matter. If I were to make a parody mocking emo kids and someone mistook it for mocking people with depression, it doesn't mean I'm actually making fun of people with depression.


But if Depressed people feel that you are making fun them, your response should be to seriously look at what you've created and understand that it is certainly possible to cast too wide a net and hurt people who don't deserve it.

Just because you didn't "mean to" hurt someone or say racist things doesn't mean you aren't being racist. There's a reason there was such a huge backlash against Brad Paisley's "Accidental Racist" song: "I didn't mean to be racist" is not an excuse.

Because racism is so intrinsically baked into the fabric of our society, it is possible to do racist things simply by using certain images and symbols, and even if you claim (maybe even sincerely) that you didn't mean those symbols to be racist, the symbols themselves are racist. The Confederate Flag is racist because it was established as a prime symbol of a nation whose primary raison d'etre was to keep non-white races inferior via slavery and discrimination. Even if someone claims they are just using it to show their "southern pride," the symbolism behind it is still there, and still hurtful.

Likewise, The Pygmies wear grass skirts, use flint weapons, are named after a diminutive used specifically for certain African ethnic groups, and are placed in a jungle environment. They employ racist sterotypes about African people. Adding some extra "roadie" imagery and claiming that's what they actually are doesn't erase that.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8980

Also, inspiration does matter. If I were to make a parody mocking emo kids and someone mistook it for mocking people with depression, it doesn't mean I'm actually making fun of people with depression.


But if Depressed people feel that you are making fun them, your response should be to seriously look at what you've created and understand that it is certainly possible to cast too wide a net and hurt people who don't deserve it.

Just because you didn't "mean to" hurt someone or say racist things doesn't mean you aren't being racist. There's a reason there was such a huge backlash against Brad Paisley's "Accidental Racist" song: "I didn't mean to be racist" is not an excuse.

Because racism is so intrinsically baked into the fabric of our society, it is possible to do racist things simply by using certain images and symbols, and even if you claim (maybe even sincerely) that you didn't mean those symbols to be racist, the symbols themselves are racist. The Confederate Flag is racist because it was established as a prime symbol of a nation whose primary raison d'etre was to keep non-white races inferior via slavery and discrimination. Even if someone claims they are just using it to show their "southern pride," the symbolism behind it is still there, and still hurtful.

Likewise, The Pygmies wear grass skirts, use flint weapons, are named after a diminutive used specifically for certain African ethnic groups, and are placed in a jungle environment. They employ racist sterotypes about African people. Adding some extra "roadie" imagery and claiming that's what they actually are doesn't erase that.


Okay.

So, what do you suggest they do about it? Uldum is probably the least-played zone in the game, and I doubt we'll be revisiting it anytime soon.
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90 Tauren Druid
9425
Likewise, The Pygmies wear grass skirts, use flint weapons, are named after a diminutive used specifically for certain African ethnic groups, and are placed in a jungle environment. They employ racist sterotypes about African people. Adding some extra "roadie" imagery and claiming that's what they actually are doesn't erase that.


You have it backwards. The metal image came first, and the tribal stuff came second and was added to make them fit into the pre-existing world.

Also, the word pygmy means 'small', and is not in and of itself a racist term. Hence why saying 'pygmy hippopotamus' isn't akin to saying 'n****r hippopotamus'. The tribes that have been referred to as pygmies in the past were only called so due to a negligible height difference between them and their neighbors.

Furthermore, how exactly is Uldum a jungle environment? It's primarily based on Egypt and the Sahara and, as such, is almost 100% desert.

The Confederate Flag is racist because it was established as a prime symbol of a nation whose primary raison d'etre was to keep non-white races inferior via slavery and discrimination. Even if someone claims they are just using it to show their "southern pride," the symbolism behind it is still there, and still hurtful.


That is completely different. The Confederate flag was the symbol of a would-be nation whose purpose for existence was the slavery of other races. Anyone using that flag is tacitly supporting what it originally stood for.

The pygmies were created to affectionately tease a music-based counter-culture. Coincidental similarities between them and any other group is just that: coincidental. The pygmies were no more created to mock central-African tribes as the Emo Kid Song was created to mock the mentally ill.
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90 Worgen Rogue
13100
This thread just went into facepalm territory.

Can we please stop trying to play "I'm offended" bingo with Pygmies?
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Getting back to the topic at hand...

I didn't really like ZA that much, and Budd didn't really save it for me. It was just kind of bland. I did like him quite a bit in Grizzly Hills, though. The quest he offers is a fun one and I like the continuity. The Harrison Jones GH quest isn't bad either.

Cataclysm, though, didn't really do Budd's character justice. He went from being naïve and insane to about as camp as Belize from Angels in America. I mean... why?

Uldum was a huge disappointment, too, but I think already said that in an earlier thread than this one.
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