Stuck on Horridon..what am I doing wrong??

90 Night Elf Druid
12410
Last night was another night of wiping on Horridon 10m normal. I'll be honest..I'm embarrassed. I used Symbiosis to get "cleanse" from my Holy Pally partner. I feel like I dispel so much (every 4 secs) that I don't have time to heal the crazy damage going out. I was oom by the final phase since dispelling costs me almost 10k mana. I even regemmed to a few static spirit gems and ate spirit food. I know my LB might drop off more and I may be late in hitting innervate.. But I feel like I'm playing whackamole with the dispels and frantically trying to keep some from dying. One sec they are full and the next they are down to 10%

Here's last nights logs (ugh)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zl2n5ykisschhh8h/dashboard/
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Priest
14695
You have people getting hit by stupid stuff a lot. Frozen orbs, double swipe and lightning nova totems being the big culprits. You also shouldn't have to be dispelling every 4s, the hex is really the only urgent debuff. If the poison volley is an issue make sure you're prioritizing killing the effusions and then priests while keeping interrupts on both. When Jalak comes down just burn him quick and get on horridon.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
15510
You guys took 55 million damage from double swipe. People need to learn to not stand in stuff.

You let the venomous adds complete 17 Venom Bolt Volley casts. Your first kill likely won't be perfect, but that's too many casts.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zl2n5ykisschhh8h/xe/?enc=wipes&boss=68476&x=spell+%3D+%22Venom+Bolt+Volley%22+AND+fullType+%3D+602

16 million damage from frozen doodads on 3rd platform, 11 million from sand traps.

No wonder you're feeling overwhelmed and running outta mana, there is a ridiculous amount of damage going out that should be avoided. Tier 14 and 15 have way more personal responsibility in terms of avoiding damage than dragon soul did and it seems your raiders are having a hard time adjusting to that.

You also only have two healers. I would seriously recommend a 3rd for this fight. Generally one is going to be spending a lot of time dispelling so that leaves two to handle the healing. If you only have two, then that only leaves one to heal which is going to suck, particularly with all the extra damage your raiders are taking.
Edited by Sellys on 5/3/2013 12:52 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
12410
I just kept cleansing because some were blaming their deaths on not getting cleansed. I know I do a crappy job with the frozen orbs (6% damage taken) but by the time that phase is up it feels all hell has broke loose. Most of my damage comes from adds beating me up.
As for three healers ... I'm not sure if we have the DPS for that.
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Priest
12055
I had this same problem with my group. I kept thinking it was healers faults, not healing enough or dispelling enough. But then I went with a group and we had the same comp, three healers, two tanks, five dps, and no one stood in bad stuff, priest adds got interupted. Our dps was low (these were people's alts) but we still got him dead on the second try.

Basically what I'm saying is, it's not you, it's them standing in stuff. Can't heal stupid, can only yell at it and hope it learns.
Edited by Lonnee on 5/4/2013 6:23 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
0
I just kept cleansing because some were blaming their deaths on not getting cleansed. I know I do a crappy job with the frozen orbs (6% damage taken) but by the time that phase is up it feels all hell has broke loose. Most of my damage comes from adds beating me up.

As for three healers ... I'm not sure if we have the DPS for that.


Our guild was 9/16 heroic before ToT came out. We 2 healed 8 of those 9 fights.

We struggled on normal Horridon for a while. I was both surprised and disheartened.

When I switched to Disc we 2-shot the boss and I became a dedicated healer for the remainder of the tier (since there isn't a fight that requires 6 DPS to my knowledge).

If you don't have the DPS to 3-heal normal Horridon after more than two months of the tier being open, you should be a little more harsh on telling the DPS to pick up the slack and get their act together so they stop wasting everyone's time - that or find a new guild.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
I just kept cleansing because some were blaming their deaths on not getting cleansed. I know I do a crappy job with the frozen orbs (6% damage taken) but by the time that phase is up it feels all hell has broke loose. Most of my damage comes from adds beating me up.
As for three healers ... I'm not sure if we have the DPS for that.


Your Holy Paladin needs to pick it up on the dispelling category.

Also, the point of interrupting the venom priests is to keep them from creating venom that you have to dispel. The first kill I got was actually in a 10 man and I think we had no more than 3-4 stacks of the poison. In the 25 man I'm normally in, we don't get any poison at all because they keep those priests and effusions locked down.

The hexes are tougher, since they do damage to everyone around them. However, we managed to do it on normal 10 with only a Shaman and Boomkin in the raid dispelling.

I will echo the others here who say you should be able to 3 heal this. If you can't 3 heal this, it's a DPS issue. 3 healing will, at the least, pull some of the burden off your shoulders and let you focus a bit more.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Priest
8110
We usually 3 heal this, it's a pretty intensive fight.

Venom Bolt Volley needs to be interrupted and Venomous Effusions need to be burned down as fast as possible, they're top priority in that phase even over Dinomancers. It helps to have dedicated interrupters, our Rogue always interrupts the Venomancer on the left, the Mage gets the right one. We usually only get one or two sets of Venom Bolt Volley out on the raid, which is survivable. We don't have ANY poison dispels with our usual comp (two Priests, one Shaman), but as long as interrupts are good, that door's not a problem.

Third door is what gives us the most trouble. Diseases HURT. The other Priest and I do a good job dispelling, but it feels like that's all I'm doing that door, my dispel is always on cooldown. If you have any Dwarves in the raid, Stoneform really shines in this fight, I use it to remove diseases on myself. AoE and cleave should be enough to get the little adds down fast enough that diseases aren't a major problem.

Curses can be tricky based on raid comp. We have our Shaman healer and Mage deal with the curses and if you have the curse on you, stop what you're doing and wait for it to be cleansed.

From what you described, it's a lot of other stuff, like your raid taking avoidable damage. Once people learn to not stand in stuff, the amount of necessary healing goes down by a lot.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
10975
As a druid, yes, we should have cleanse to help out with dispels. Not much to say other than what's been said. Healers and tanks are always first to take the blame, hence the need for WOL if you're going to raid. If people are getting hit by double swipe alot, odds are the random target from horridon's charge isn't moving out of the raid group.

When we first did the fight 25 man normal, the poison door was hell. Melee interrupts cut the damage and dispels in half. We actually have had a few instances where not a single poison got off.

Frost orb damage is silly. If people are dying to it, they aren't paying attention. Same with sand traps.

The bears on the other hand..... Cleave their asses off, and have a mean debuff. if possible, get them to the OT and try not to stand in front of them.

Even when done correctly, this fight is hardcore for druid mana. I've found SotF/HotW works really well here. that is 25 man however. once the four doors are done, kill the big guy quickly then avoid horridons rage and charges.

So, to recap, 55m from double swipe? people need to clear the raid if they are targeted throughout the fight.

17 venom bolts? at least half of those should have been interrupted, and possibly, had they been to start with, the count would have never gotten that high

don't get me started on sand traps and frozen orbs. they are easy to see and avoidable.

I hope this helps. Yelling at raid members is stupid. Working mechanics is not.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9395
This fight is stupid easy to two heal. We two heal with me and a RDruid. This fight does require everyone to do their part. Healers can NOT carry this fight, which is a somewhat novel idea. Door two is the easiest door in the fight for us. We get no volley's at all. We do run a Monk tank on doors and a rogue and warrior, so interrupts are not an issue. But, you can get by on 2. It's easy.

Door three: Slowly kite the adds to door four. You should be past halfway there when the dinomancer drops. That keeps the orbs behind you and not under you.

Door four: Seriously. This door is simple. Getting to this door with 10 people up and a brez left is pretty much a killshot.

Your entire raid is playing so sloppy on this fight according to your logs.

One hint to help: What we did during progression, we used BLust, both our Devos, Tranq, our Ele used HTT, and Demo Banner on door three to help with the DoT and sloppy frozen orbs. But now we save Lust, Tranq, Demo for Jalak and don't ever really need the other CDs. Your CDs will be different but you get the gist.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Monk
8295
Let me hop in as a guild that wiped to horridon for ~2 months(we're baddies), and finally got him:

A ton of the damage is avoidable, people just really have to focus. And interupts in phase two are very, very important. On our first kill, we had one or zero poison volleys go off, and that allowed us to carry momentum into the final two doors with the healers sitting high on mana and everyone topped off.

So make sure they are focused on interupts, and running away from the raid when double swipes come, and just keep at it. The boss sucks, is a giant PITA, and will make you want to break things, but if its beatable by a bunch of baddies like us, than its beatable by just about everyone...
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
12410
Thanks for the responses.. I started checking out other things like gear and such. Yeah when you see someone spending their VPs on their offspec and rocking blues for their mainspec (Cough cough one of the tanks that was getting hit like a truck) I think there's more than meets the eye here. I think we will need to three heal it.. but my only concern is that our third healer is typically a shammy that doesn't use chain heal or Healing rain.... even on stacked fights. That's why I was kinda meh on the third healer since it will add maybe 20% more heals going out.
I think the issue is with fights like this is that no one can be carried. If you bring undergeared or not as skilled there's going to be wipes. Stepping in stuff = deaths... lack of interrupts = deaths.

We shall see what happens on Wednesday.... anyone know a good fail tracker I can run for this fight? I think calling folks out may bring some much needed awareness
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
13655
Honestly, if it's a shaman healer, just having the healing totems and mana totems may help. My guild three heals it, and it works out well. This is not a fight I would want to 2 heal. iInterrupts on door 2 are necessary. We assign one interrupter to each priest before the fight starts. (The priests can be marked while up in the stands before the fight to make it easier.)

One tip for the 3rd door: do not try to dispel every disease. Wait until someone gets 3+ stacks. One stack is actually very little damage. It's just when it gets up to 5+ stacks that it gets crazy.

On your longest attempt, I noticed one person died to double swipe twice in a row. That's not good. One thing we try to do is have whoever gets charge run it out of the raid. This just helps to prevent extra damage if someone in the raid isn't paying attention.

Edit: One other thing to mention on the 4th door - make sure the raid is killing bear -> shaman -> bear. Having multiple shamans up is a pita.
Edited by Mieme on 5/8/2013 10:03 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
8710
oh gawd. You're 2healing with a pally and you have zero priests. Utterly brutal Bad combo for this fight.

One, your second dispell will only work on door 2 and 3. You had a lot of early wipes on the log you posted in the op. That should not be due to oom from dispells, as at those points you should only have 1 dispell rocking on cd.

Definately a good idea to 3heal this fight.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
oh gawd. You're 2healing with a pally and you have zero priests. Utterly brutal Bad combo for this fight.

One, your second dispell will only work on door 2 and 3. You had a lot of early wipes on the log you posted in the op. That should not be due to oom from dispells, as at those points you should only have 1 dispell rocking on cd.

Definately a good idea to 3heal this fight.

??????????????????????????
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
11430
??????????????????????????


Agreed. The healing composition itself is fine (they have 2 magic, 3 poison, 2 disease, 1 curse from the healers alone), it's the lack of available dispels from the DPS/tanks that's rough. Not having mass dispel hurts, too, but if people position properly, the debuff won't go out on more than three people. It's also a good idea to not dispel immediately after the first Blazing Sunlight when you have 2 Wastewalkers out, so you can make sure you dispel the 2-stack instead of between applications.

I've advocated since week 2 of this tier for Horridon to be 2healed on 10man normal (we 3healed the first week and 2healed the following week; 2healing was FAR easier). The additional dps you gain helps kill adds quickly enough that healers tend to have less work to do than they would have had to if you 3healed.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
8710
oh gawd. You're 2healing with a pally and you have zero priests. Utterly brutal Bad combo for this fight.

One, your second dispell will only work on door 2 and 3. You had a lot of early wipes on the log you posted in the op. That should not be due to oom from dispells, as at those points you should only have 1 dispell rocking on cd.

Definately a good idea to 3heal this fight.

??????????????????????????


He's on normal horridon still. That comp is therefore bad. I didn't want to be overly critical or rude, but if normal horridon has not been downed yet, then you have some serious problems going on in your group. And that composition (no priest or resto shaman) just won't help you progress very much.
For several reasons;
1 mass dispells - obviously, can help if your team is struggling with adds and debuffs get out of control.
2 - Well, disc priests are stupidly and just herp a derp overpowered on this fight when it comes to raw throughput later in the fight (when it's actually needed)
3 - Why 2 heal? I didn't want to be a donkey and be critical, but; normal modes can all be 3 healed. If you cannot 3 heal all normal modes, it's a dps problem. And given their level of progression, let's not pretend they're trying to min/max and roll 2healers, because at this point that's just silly c'mon..
4- I'm not big on a resto shaman, but one would certainly help them here, at the very least as a walking cooldown for mana and HTT..
5- no horridon down at this point. So, are we to assume they're rolling with uber dps? Considering they had 4 people under 80k dps, which I can roll 80k in boomkin spec with zero reforge and 34% hit rating...(AND I have no bloody clue how to play boomkin, because I simply don't give a bloody crap about it)
The group is not optimized at all. Therefore, 2healing just won't fly. And that's pretty evident in the length of those encounters.


The additional dps you gain helps kill adds quickly enough that healers tend to have less work to do than they would have had to if you 3healed.


That works great, unless 4-5 of your dps are sub 80k like the op. Verdict; They don't have enough dps. Period. 2 heal all you want, they're still getting swamped which is so obvious. When most of their attempts are over before 3 minutes are up, and they're 2 healing, that should send you a big warning flag.
They don't have the dps. Nor the heals to keep up with the dps' lack of downing adds in a timely fashion.

My honest opinion for the OP, you need your dps to make sure they've optimized their gear and spec, and they're on top of their game. If you can get a disc priest, it'd reallllly be beneficial for this fight in particular as, mass dispell is nice just in case, and atonement healing is stupidly OP once you reach past door 2.

I apologize if my post sounded elitist, I don't mean it that way, shoot I only raid 2hrs a week and with this toon im still in normals myself. But realllly get on your dps raiders. Get them to optimize their specs and maximize their dps. I saw 2 people under 40k dps on one of your longest attempts. AND that was without them dying early.

That's really unacceptable, you just flat out cannot win like that unless you 3heal it, and all 3 healers absolutely carry the entire raid by a long shot. They could literally drop 2 dps, add 1 disc priest, and do more dps with disc + hotw druid.....
Edited by Tonydanza on 5/9/2013 12:22 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9395
oh gawd. You're 2healing with a pally and you have zero priests. Utterly brutal Bad combo for this fight.

One, your second dispell will only work on door 2 and 3. You had a lot of early wipes on the log you posted in the op. That should not be due to oom from dispells, as at those points you should only have 1 dispell rocking on cd.

Definately a good idea to 3heal this fight.

??????????????????????????


I agree with this. We two heal this fight with HPal/Rdruid and 0 priests with no problems at all. The healing combo is not bad. It is their execution that requires some work. My guild is a pretty casual guild that isn't full of hardcore bleeding edge people, and we do just fine. It just requires basic focus.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
8710

??????????????????????????


I agree with this. We two heal this fight with HPal/Rdruid and 0 priests with no problems at all. The healing combo is not bad. It is their execution that requires some work. My guild is a pretty casual guild that isn't full of hardcore bleeding edge people, and we do just fine. It just requires basic focus.


View those logs and the dps. Then tell me they can 2 heal.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
5860
I apologize if my post sounded elitist

No worries, that's not how it sounds at all.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]