Stuck on Horridon..what am I doing wrong??

90 Blood Elf Priest
11430
View those logs and the dps. Then tell me they can 2 heal.


They can 2 heal. People need to stop standing in crap like double swipe, but that's true regardless of how many healers they bring.

They're pretty close as it is, with a wipe after the 4th door closed and all the adds dead. If the hunter actually used lust, it would help a lot to kill Jalak before the damage ramps up too much.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9485


I agree with this. We two heal this fight with HPal/Rdruid and 0 priests with no problems at all. The healing combo is not bad. It is their execution that requires some work. My guild is a pretty casual guild that isn't full of hardcore bleeding edge people, and we do just fine. It just requires basic focus.


View those logs and the dps. Then tell me they can 2 heal.


My comment wasn't regarding them. I was commenting on the generality of your statement that HPal/RDruid/0 Priests was a terrible combo. I was merely pointing out that the combo was fine. Notice I did say their execution needed work, meaning unless they played better 2 healing would be impossible for them.

Sorry for any confusion!
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90 Night Elf Druid
12410
The raid makeup that night was pretty rough I admit. The hunter was using a Sporebat for the haste buff since it was our only option for that buff, therefore we didn't have Heroism. We are just trying to make do with who shows up. As for healing with the Hpal, if I had to pick a class to Co heal with, it would be a pally. They seem to have the strengths that my class lacks.

Well we didn't get to raid this week... I guess Horridon scared folks off :-(
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90 Draenei Shaman
9385
Raid lead needs to assign interrupt rotation for second door (2 dps on 1 priest each and have add tank on dinoman) . I never have to dispel on door 2 if people interrupt correctly, allowing me to enter gate 3 with 70% + mana. You should be able to burn the first priest before the 2nd 2 drop down. Also, I would advise from door 3-4 to have the tank with the adds move slowly and continuously towards door 4 so the frozen orbs spawn behind the raid group. Make sure Horridon stays parallel to the gates and just have charge targets get in his face then move back to adds. We usually pop hero on gate 3. The first time I healed it on my monk it seemed impossible because I had to dispel on cd, but in actuality healing it became fairly simple when people started interrupting. You get zero venom effusions and venom volley. Interrupts will allow you to spend less time going oom and more time going BOOOOOOOOOOM!!! Good luck!!!
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90 Human Priest
9950
Horridon is not a healing fight its a dps fight,where if the dps do what there supposed to do the healing is really easy. but that being said just sounds like your raid is just taking unnecessary damage which in that case you cant heal stupid.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12990
Either they are going to have to stop standing in so much crap and work on controlling adds properly so you can 2 heal and make up for the lower dps, or they are going to have to take advantage of the extra room for personal error the 3rd healer brings and up their recount. They can't have it both ways.

My guild had a rough time with it too and can still wipe on it, so I understand the frustration, and there's a fair amount to keep track of, but there's only so much a healer can do on it.
Edited by Thaimaishu on 5/10/2013 5:56 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10930
First off, to all the people saying that 3 healing it would be better, that's backwards thinking. I will reiterate what multiple people have said: Celestelle, your raid group is taking an absolutely horrendous amount of easily avoidable damage. It's seriously insane how much extra strain is being put on you and your hpally.

I understand why people are saying "just 3 heal it". I get it. "All that extra damage is too much for 2 healers? Just 3 heal it then".

But, that's a horrible way to combat the real issue here, which is WAY TOO MUCH avoidable damage being allowed to happen. If Celestelle's group puts the blame on insufficient heals and adds a 3rd healer, but changes nothing else, will they down the boss? Maybe. But, what happens then as they continue to progress through the raid and people continue to fail at any mechanics that allow you to avoid incoming damage? They will continue to wipe. And wipe. And wipe some more. All the while saying it's because the healers just aren't good enough.

It's backwards. And in order to truly fix the issue your raid is having, it needs to be seriously addressed that it's not your healers failing by just not healing hard enough.... It's the rest of your group who is failing to interrupt priests, move out of frozen orbs, move out of double swipe, etc etc etc. There are lots of things going on in your logs that can be improved immensely, most of them being very simple: Stop standing in stuff, and interrupt the poison volley.

I honestly believe that if you can get your raiders to improve on those things, Celestelle, you are going to be amazed at how the difficulty goes away.

Either they are going to have to stop standing in so much crap and work on controlling adds properly so you can 2 heal and make up for the lower dps, or they are going to have to take advantage of the extra room for personal error the 3rd healer brings and up their recount. They can't have it both ways.
- Thaimaishu nailed it with this, but if you ever want to improve as a raid group and progress through the rest of the fights, you really just need to insist on better personal responsibility.

My 2 cents anyways. Just a random opinion, so you can take it or leave it. Best of luck to you as you guys continue progression. /cheers
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90 Pandaren Shaman
7205
There's not really much left to say that hasn't already been said but I wanted to add in a little tip that my group does. When Horridon charges, have the target run straight toward him, then out to the side once he locks in place. The less he moves, the easier is it for everyone else to dodge double swipe.
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100 Draenei Priest
14740
There's not really much left to say that hasn't already been said but I wanted to add in a little tip that my group does. When Horridon charges, have the target run straight toward him, then out to the side once he locks in place. The less he moves, the easier is it for everyone else to dodge double swipe.


Hehe. I guess every group is different. We actually try to have the person with charge move to the side before he locks on that way the rest of the group doesn't have to move. (Doesn't always work but we try.)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9485
05/11/2013 06:03 PMPosted by Mieme
There's not really much left to say that hasn't already been said but I wanted to add in a little tip that my group does. When Horridon charges, have the target run straight toward him, then out to the side once he locks in place. The less he moves, the easier is it for everyone else to dodge double swipe.


Hehe. I guess every group is different. We actually try to have the person with charge move to the side before he locks on that way the rest of the group doesn't have to move. (Doesn't always work but we try.)


We have the charge target run to the tank. That way the Charge stays pretty much in the same spot and the tank doesn't have to re-position much
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90 Tauren Paladin
5195
You need to get a dps with a heal offspec or a 3rd healer We 3 heal all of ToT your going to deff need 3 heals for council, esp if ppl are taking alot of damage from mechanics. If you really don't think you have the dps for it replace people. I know it's hard but if you want to progress enough said or your going to lose the better people and be left with the bads. our healers are a 522 disc priest a 511 hpala and a 509 rdruid and we just recently started 2 healing everything up to megera. You are running logs so look at what people are taking damage from and talk to them if they continue to take damage then they need to be replaced. All those adds need to be inturupted or burned down fast enough they dont get casts off. I don't even think we dispell any poisons honestly maybe the tank but even then they just heal through it. 80k dps per person is like a minimum for this point on in throne, and if people cant pull that at 495+ ilvl their doing something wrong.

Sorry if I sound like a jerk its not ment to be like that People that want to raid should be held responsible to learn fight mechanics and know their class.
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90 Draenei Paladin
12580
Your DPS is low for Throne of Thunder. Everyone should be at or above 100k (though 90 can be manageable, if it's a gear issue).

That being said, how are all the melee in your raid taking so many double swipes? The Horridon tank is either positioning the boss in a place where he lays the double swipe on the ads at the door and creating unnecessary damage, or the dps are being stupid and standing in things they shouldn't be.

Also, it is vital, with the dps you have, that absolutely no melee or ranged should be attacking the boss AT ALL during the door phases when ads are at. There should be no tolerance for anyone doing anything else.

And you need to have interrupts and people need to communicate them. When that is done, the damage this boss seems to do decreases to the point it actually gets boring to heal. It's ridiculously simple as long as DPS do their jobs properly and avoid stuff and interrupt the ads that need to be interrupted. Get an interrupt rotation set up and make sure they are calling stuff out to each other.

As for dispelling---the tanks are top priority. And then anyone with over 3 stacks of something. A lot of the debuffs that are given out, aside from poison volley (which you shouldn't get if the dps are doing their jobs!) do minimal damage and you don't need to freak out. Just dispel someone when you can and focus on healing more often than not.

Also, if you are getting to the fourth door and a lot of people are taking damage that isn't caused by standing too close to frozen orbs, it's because of the curse debuff people are taking. There needs to be a rotation for that too! Without a mage or another druid in your raid, you are going to find that phase incredibly tough to get through because you are the only decurser and it is vital that those curses get dispelled.

As for 2 vs 3 healing Horridon--if you can't 2 heal Horridon because you don't have the dps to 3-heal, then your dps is too low and that needs to be fixed before you go any further into the raid. There are some fights with tight enrages and you have to have the dps to kill them.

Horridon is not only a 'can you stay out of stuff' check for people, it's also 'do you have the gear and the dps to do this raid' check. If your dps were pulling the numbers they should, you wouldn't be experiencing Horridon as such a difficult encounter (because it isn't one).
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
Your DPS is low for Throne of Thunder. Everyone should be at or above 100k (though 90 can be manageable, if it's a gear issue).

That being said, how are all the melee in your raid taking so many double swipes? The Horridon tank is either positioning the boss in a place where he lays the double swipe on the ads at the door and creating unnecessary damage, or the dps are being stupid and standing in things they shouldn't be.

Also, it is vital, with the dps you have, that absolutely no melee or ranged should be attacking the boss AT ALL during the door phases when ads are at. There should be no tolerance for anyone doing anything else.

And you need to have interrupts and people need to communicate them. When that is done, the damage this boss seems to do decreases to the point it actually gets boring to heal. It's ridiculously simple as long as DPS do their jobs properly and avoid stuff and interrupt the ads that need to be interrupted. Get an interrupt rotation set up and make sure they are calling stuff out to each other.

As for dispelling---the tanks are top priority. And then anyone with over 3 stacks of something. A lot of the debuffs that are given out, aside from poison volley (which you shouldn't get if the dps are doing their jobs!) do minimal damage and you don't need to freak out. Just dispel someone when you can and focus on healing more often than not.

Also, if you are getting to the fourth door and a lot of people are taking damage that isn't caused by standing too close to frozen orbs, it's because of the curse debuff people are taking. There needs to be a rotation for that too! Without a mage or another druid in your raid, you are going to find that phase incredibly tough to get through because you are the only decurser and it is vital that those curses get dispelled.

As for 2 vs 3 healing Horridon--if you can't 2 heal Horridon because you don't have the dps to 3-heal, then your dps is too low and that needs to be fixed before you go any further into the raid. There are some fights with tight enrages and you have to have the dps to kill them.

Horridon is not only a 'can you stay out of stuff' check for people, it's also 'do you have the gear and the dps to do this raid' check. If your dps were pulling the numbers they should, you wouldn't be experiencing Horridon as such a difficult encounter (because it isn't one).

Unless they're getting close to berserk timers, or aren't making them, their DPS is just fine. My altraid doesn't do 100k+ on each DPS and we clear just fine =\
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90 Draenei Paladin
12580
Unless they're getting close to berserk timers, or aren't making them, their DPS is just fine. My altraid doesn't do 100k+ on each DPS and we clear just fine =\


Notice, I said "90 can be manageable." Though realistically you can probably carry one or two dps sitting between 75-80k if your tanks/healers are good.
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045
Our group has a few people at 70-85, a few at 90. Our rogue under the right conditions can do 120-130

There are only a few really brutal dps checks, honestly.

I think you're highly overestimating the dps requirements for the early part of ToT. Sure it'll make it easier, but it's not a requirement.
Edited by Naérdriel on 5/13/2013 6:49 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
12410
Our group has a few people at 70-85, a few at 90. Our rogue under the right conditions can do 120-130

There are only a few really brutal dps checks, honestly.

I think you're highly overestimating the dps requirements for the early part of ToT. Sure it'll make it easier, but it's not a requirement.


I hope you are right about this. I think our DPS was definitely lower than normal on that fight since both our rogues normally break 100k DPS. Maybe it was trying to pick out the adds they needed to single target down.
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045
Our group has a few people at 70-85, a few at 90. Our rogue under the right conditions can do 120-130

There are only a few really brutal dps checks, honestly.

I think you're highly overestimating the dps requirements for the early part of ToT. Sure it'll make it easier, but it's not a requirement.


I hope you are right about this. I think our DPS was definitely lower than normal on that fight since both our rogues normally break 100k DPS. Maybe it was trying to pick out the adds they needed to single target down.


The idea is that you'll be running through the first bit quite a few times, gearing people up simply because of progression. Lei Shen, for example, takes some serious dps (well, some serious everything). But by the time you get to him, you'll likely be geared more as a raid.

To say one needs 90+ on Horridon is silly. Perhaps in AoE, and you'll find some classes are better than that. But just sustained 90k single target? Hogwash. No one was geared for that at the time of release, and he was nerfed like 2x?

It's more of a switch quick and interupt, cleavy-bursty dps than just huge thoroughput.
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90 Draenei Paladin
12580
Our group has a few people at 70-85, a few at 90. Our rogue under the right conditions can do 120-130

There are only a few really brutal dps checks, honestly.

I think you're highly overestimating the dps requirements for the early part of ToT. Sure it'll make it easier, but it's not a requirement.


Sorry, when I said people should be over 90k I was talking about overall for the entire raid. I should have specified that. I wasn't talking about specifically for Horridon. If you have the healers to handle it, Horridon can be killed with two or three people sitting between 75-85k.

But with that type of dps, later fights are going to be incredibly difficult. I didn't mean to imply that Horridon had a huge dps requirement >.>
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045
Our group has a few people at 70-85, a few at 90. Our rogue under the right conditions can do 120-130

There are only a few really brutal dps checks, honestly.

I think you're highly overestimating the dps requirements for the early part of ToT. Sure it'll make it easier, but it's not a requirement.


Sorry, when I said people should be over 90k I was talking about overall for the entire raid. I should have specified that. I wasn't talking about specifically for Horridon. If you have the healers to handle it, Horridon can be killed with two or three people sitting between 75-85k.

But with that type of dps, later fights are going to be incredibly difficult. I didn't mean to imply that Horridon had a huge dps requirement >.>


Then we're in absolute agreement! Especially with the nerfs on the adds, the fight is much more forgiving.

=)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10930


Sorry, when I said people should be over 90k I was talking about overall for the entire raid. I should have specified that. I wasn't talking about specifically for Horridon. If you have the healers to handle it, Horridon can be killed with two or three people sitting between 75-85k.

But with that type of dps, later fights are going to be incredibly difficult. I didn't mean to imply that Horridon had a huge dps requirement >.>


Then we're in absolute agreement! Especially with the nerfs on the adds, the fight is much more forgiving.

=)


Now kiss....
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