Stopping PW:S from sniping HoTs idea

90 Worgen Priest
10625
So, I see a lot of people complaining about absorbs and how they prevent other healers from playing a part/sniping heals. I was thinking that perhaps making PW:S work similar to Anti Magic Zone in that it absorbs a % of the damage up to the absorption limit. Increasing its duration might be needed for lower % absorbed.

This would allow HoTs to continue to play a part in low damage phases and would synergies pre-HoTing/pre-Bubbling for high damage phases while keeping the strength (atleast in raw absorb potential) of PW:S

For example, Wind Lord Mel'jarak last phase 10 seconds before Rain of Blades; The Disc priest is having to move a lot and with a very spread out group he has to PW:S people in preparation, The Druid on the other hand needs to HoT everyone in preparation, with PW:S letting lets say 50% of the damage through, the HoTs will be able to start healing immediately while the absorbs are also doing their job.

My concerns so far are that it makes PW:S a bit weaker from a effective health POV when you have one big wack of damage coming in (e.g. Static Shock in Lei Shen encounter).

I also thought that if that was a problem then you could have Spirit Shell also modify PW:S to absorb 100% while active in addition to its current effects.

What do you guys think? Hopefully I haven't repeated someone elses idea.

Thanks,
Healo
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Or people could, you know, do hard content. Where EH is great, but it gets punched through by boss mechanics and you need burst/sustained healers to keep everyone alive.
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90 Worgen Priest
10625
Or people could, you know, do hard content. Where EH is great, but it gets punched through by boss mechanics and you need burst/sustained healers to keep everyone alive.


It always gets punched through by boss mechanics (the Wind Lord example). My point was more that during the absorb while it is holding on live, any HoTs hiding behind the shield are useless until it actually breaks and when it does it's kind of like fully opening a flood gate. my suggestion is more about letting the damage seep through so sustained healers can do their job during the phase rather than wait for the 3 or so ticks for the absorbs to fall.
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90 Human Paladin
10655
I don't particularly like the idea to be honest. It would either be entirely overpowered or make discs/paladins useless and there's not a lot of middle ground. Logistically it's a nightmare as well.

In most situations where you're using the amount of healers you need, as well as you're actually taking somewhat consistent damage, you're going to often times see absorb classes behind pure output classes.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
05/02/2013 11:22 PMPosted by Healovafang
Or people could, you know, do hard content. Where EH is great, but it gets punched through by boss mechanics and you need burst/sustained healers to keep everyone alive.


It always gets punched through by boss mechanics (the Wind Lord example). My point was more that during the absorb while it is holding on live, any HoTs hiding behind the shield are useless until it actually breaks and when it does it's kind of like fully opening a flood gate. my suggestion is more about letting the damage seep through so sustained healers can do their job during the phase rather than wait for the 3 or so ticks for the absorbs to fall.


There's almost no raid damage on Heroic Wind Lord if you're doing the encounter correctly. Hitting a Wind Bomb was an assured wipe - even with a Disc Priest - when the fight was progression.

I think your definition of "hard" and my definition of "hard" are different.
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90 Human Priest
5860
05/02/2013 11:22 PMPosted by Healovafang
My point was more that during the absorb while it is holding on live, any HoTs hiding behind the shield are useless

This comes down to healers working with each other rather than against each other. If you see the disc priest is stacking absorbs, delay your hots so they aren't wasted as much.

In any case, for any damage pattern/function, there's a hierarchy of heal-sniping among Absorbs, HoTs, instants, and cast heals and if it's not PW:S that's sniping the hot it's rejuve sniping the GHW.
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90 Worgen Priest
10625
I don't particularly like the idea to be honest. It would either be entirely overpowered or make discs/paladins useless and there's not a lot of middle ground. Logistically it's a nightmare as well.


I don't really see it capable of swinging either of those ways, the aura will be absorbing the same amount just letting damage seep through so other healers don't overheal.

There's almost no raid damage on Heroic Wind Lord if you're doing the encounter correctly. Hitting a Wind Bomb was an assured wipe - even with a Disc Priest - when the fight was progression.


I'm not talking about LFR, on normal and ofcourse heroic, Rain of Blades hurts. way way more than enough to break absorbs in 2 or so seconds when it was current content.

I think your definition of "hard" and my definition of "hard" are different.


I never said it was "hard"....

This comes down to healers working with each other rather than against each other. If you see the disc priest is stacking absorbs, delay your hots so they aren't wasted as much.

In any case, for any damage pattern/function, there's a hierarchy of heal-sniping among Absorbs, HoTs, instants, and cast heals and if it's not PW:S that's sniping the hot it's rejuve sniping the GHW.


Yeah I do agree it'd be better if healers were a bit more organised but at the same time I think if the abilities were made to work a little better together then that couldn't hurt either.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
05/03/2013 02:01 AMPosted by Healovafang
I'm not talking about LFR, on normal and ofcourse heroic, Rain of Blades hurts. way way more than enough to break absorbs in 2 or so seconds when it was current content.


It's actually really mild compared to normal. You set it up so that he never has the enrage buff when he does RoB, and so it's kind of piddly. It's not even an issue of having a CD. You can heal through it without one.
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90 Worgen Priest
10625
It's actually really mild compared to normal. You set it up so that he never has the enrage buff when he does RoB, and so it's kind of piddly. It's not even an issue of having a CD. You can heal through it without one.


That's interesting. Well normal definitely crushes absorbs in a hurry.

So in heroic what a Disc priest might of done is put up a lot of absorbs and just absorbed the whole RoB or maybe even just have a little bit at the end the other healers get to heal.
Would it be better in that case if the absorbs let a portion of the damage through while still absorbing a lot?
Edited by Healovafang on 5/3/2013 2:44 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
14715
PW:S isn't a problem, the only (slightly) problematic absorb is IH, ONLY because it has high scaling. The rest of the absorbs are fine
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90 Human Priest
19350
The so called "absorb problem" is not a game design problem. Depending on the circumstances, it is either a raid organizational problem (overhealing content) or a "does not play well with others" problem (completely blocking other healers by massive shields for trivial damage).

Plan ahead, coordinate with your cohealers, play as a team, and appreciate that different healing specs are different having different strengths.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9210
05/03/2013 01:33 AMPosted by Evry
This comes down to healers working with each other rather than against each other. If you see the disc priest is stacking absorbs, delay your hots so they aren't wasted as much.


05/03/2013 05:39 PMPosted by Nzete
The so called "absorb problem" is not a game design problem. Depending on the circumstances, it is either a raid organizational problem (overhealing content) or a "does not play well with others" problem (completely blocking other healers by massive shields for trivial damage).


It's been a balance issue since always, druids always waffle between:

1. high throughput healer, pisses everyone off, but sucks on ultra/baleroc/etc.
2. average throughput healer, have to ask Nzete for permission to heal, why are we bringing you again?

Utility was the secret sauce, but it's all been given away.
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90 Tauren Druid
8710


I think your definition of "hard" and my definition of "hard" are different.


Could you be any more elitist?
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650


I think your definition of "hard" and my definition of "hard" are different.


Could you be any more elitist?

Think this is the first time I've ever agreed with you on something.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17145
Ironic.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930


I think your definition of "hard" and my definition of "hard" are different.


Could you be any more elitist?


It wasn't meant to be elitist. The damage in normal modes in no way prepared me for the intensity of the damage in heroic modes. It is very much "everyone is topped or they die" in many fights. Not so much in the first wing (although the latter half of Horridon fits that, and the end of Council is very much, "trying to raise these health bars, but they keep going down...someone help..."), but it very much becomes that later on. It is, quite literally, a spam fest, and feels eerily similar to what I remember of H ICC. Including completely ridiculous tank damage, and mechanics that may or may not one-shot you even if you're doing everything "right" according to your strat.
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90 Pandaren Priest
10765
Uh no

its not shields that snipe in the 1st place its atonement

You can't even spam bubbles if you wanted to. the 110k absorb gets eaten away very quickly then the debuff is still there preventing me from shielding then again.

honestly hots are not that impressive. why would you want to change mechanics around to cater to underwhelming mechanics?
Edited by Loratabb on 5/4/2013 9:10 AM PDT
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90 Human Priest
19350
If damage is low enough that atonement is sniping all the hots, I could go holy and snipe it all with CoH on cooldown.

If you have entire fights where all you do is fight over who gets to heal, someone should go dps (have no dps off spec in your healers then /roll for who gets to afk). Over healing content is a snipe fest (absorbs beats direct heals, direct heals with most haste wins in direct, everything beats hots).

I go holy for some fights die to mechanics; aborbs are not the answer to everything.
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90 Night Elf Monk
8295
This comes down to healers working with each other rather than against each other. If you see the disc priest is stacking absorbs, delay your hots so they aren't wasted as much.


How is this a fun game design that creates engaging raids? "If you see the other healer doing his job, it means you get to stand around and wait for 1/2 the fight until a huge damage burst, then you get to heal for 15 seconds until they get their absorb wall up again..."

As I said in my other post, I agree with tiriel that this is not the case in heroic modes, and i agree that healers have to be balanced so they are able to complete normal modes, but if that means that they will be severely broken in the content that the overwhelming majority of people will encounter, then there needs to be something done.
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