Stopping PW:S from sniping HoTs idea

90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
05/04/2013 04:03 PMPosted by Loratabb


How is this a fun game design that creates engaging raids? "If you see the other healer doing his job, it means you get to stand around and wait for 1/2 the fight until a huge damage burst, then you get to heal for 15 seconds until they get their absorb wall up again..."

As I said in my other post, I agree with tiriel that this is not the case in heroic modes, and i agree that healers have to be balanced so they are able to complete normal modes, but if that means that they will be severely broken in the content that the overwhelming majority of people will encounter, then there needs to be something done.


There can be something done dont bring holy pally or a disc priest to raid. * fixed

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k6gp8vpv6ve97gdd/sum/healingDone/?s=2256&e=2867#Elhorno

^^ heroic horridon No disc or pally healer. Yet they still downed the boss. this is one of the best fights to have a disc or pally in 10 man with dire call.

So yes healers are fine you can always choose not to have a absorbing healer in the raid.

I don't think any fight aside from Megaera, possibly Durumu, and maybe Iron Qon can be measured to say "it can be done w/out x class, see?!?" The 3 I mentioned are pretty healing intensive in their own way, that an hpal/disc priest excels at to ridiculous levels. Not implying you can't do it w/out them on these, but there's a lot of guilds that haven't been able to without having one of them. Last I checked, Megaera has not been 2healed without an absorption healer.
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
I didn't know megaera could be 2 healed on heroic. This is news to me.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yb3dnej4k1lscvtq/sum/healingDone/?s=15086&e=15500
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90 Worgen Priest
10625
Uh no

its not shields that snipe in the 1st place its atonement

You can't even spam bubbles if you wanted to. the 110k absorb gets eaten away very quickly then the debuff is still there preventing me from shielding then again.

honestly hots are not that impressive. why would you want to change mechanics around to cater to underwhelming mechanics?


Atonement is really strong atm i agree and we are seeing a nerf to that in 5.3 but at the moment im also finding PW:S a very strong ability (as it should be for Disc) to the point where if i need to prepare for incoming damage and spirit shell is either on cooldown or people are spread too much to effectively use PoH then layering a PW:S on everyone actually stops most of the damage in NM

How is this a fun game design that creates engaging raids? "If you see the other healer doing his job, it means you get to stand around and wait for 1/2 the fight until a huge damage burst, then you get to heal for 15 seconds until they get their absorb wall up again..."

^^^^
that's kind of the problem i was trying to solve

Though I agree that in heroic the damage is a lot more intense so Disc priests wont be able to just rely on their absorbs for half the fight.

I do like the way the resto druid mushrooms work now though, I think it's a good way to compensate for HoT sniping.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Uh no

its not shields that snipe in the 1st place its atonement

You can't even spam bubbles if you wanted to. the 110k absorb gets eaten away very quickly then the debuff is still there preventing me from shielding then again.

honestly hots are not that impressive. why would you want to change mechanics around to cater to underwhelming mechanics?


Atonement is really strong atm i agree and we are seeing a nerf to that in 5.3 but at the moment im also finding PW:S a very strong ability (as it should be for Disc) to the point where if i need to prepare for incoming damage and spirit shell is either on cooldown or people are spread too much to effectively use PoH then layering a PW:S on everyone actually stops most of the damage in NM

How is this a fun game design that creates engaging raids? "If you see the other healer doing his job, it means you get to stand around and wait for 1/2 the fight until a huge damage burst, then you get to heal for 15 seconds until they get their absorb wall up again..."

^^^^
that's kind of the problem i was trying to solve

Though I agree that in heroic the damage is a lot more intense so Disc priests wont be able to just rely on their absorbs for half the fight.

I do like the way the resto druid mushrooms work now though, I think it's a good way to compensate for HoT sniping.


We're not tuned for Normal Mode.

We can't be tuned for Normal Mode and still be effective in heroic encounters.

You aren't going to see any class play to their best in a normal mode encounter, especially with the amount of gear out right now. We outgeared normal mode encountersthe day the damn instance dropped.
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90 Pandaren Monk
14715
05/04/2013 08:53 PMPosted by Fleurs
I didn't know megaera could be 2 healed on heroic. This is news to me.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yb3dnej4k1lscvtq/sum/healingDone/?s=15086&e=15500


Your brewmaster monk is basically a healer
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
05/09/2013 07:49 AMPosted by Suplift

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yb3dnej4k1lscvtq/sum/healingDone/?s=15086&e=15500


Your brewmaster monk is basically a healer

Yep, he does a lot of healing that allows us to 2heal without an absorption healer. He's sort of like a mini-prot paladin. Which almost every guild that's downed Megaera on heroic has.
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90 Draenei Priest
13540
From a Heroic 25s viewpoint: Blizzard has taken the absorbs mechanic too far without giving some other healers better tools to "keep up." Holy Paladins and Disc Priests don't even have to think about putting up absorbs most of the time, they are just on the raid waiting for damage to "heal." This makes healers that rely on HoTs, mainly Resto Druids, suffer throughput-wise to the point where no guild wants more than one on their roster (if even that). Putting up preventative damage modifiers should be a conscious decision because of how powerful in a raiding scenario they are in not only what you see meters-wise but in the actuality of smoothing out raid damage to prevent deaths--they are essentially a cooldown always speckled throughout the raid. One of my top heals is always Divine Aegis which is me doing nothing at all and that is poor design, especially if I am still "topping the meters" for the rest of the fight even when it isn't bursty damage. If I am relying on absorbs to heal the raid then I should spike up to where other healers are during moments of burst but instead I just jump even further ahead of everyone else.

My solution is to 1.) Take away mindless absorbs and 2.) Give Resto Druids burst healing to compensate for HoTs like Mistweaver Monks already have (which clearly compensate for HoTs--MW monks are fantastic throughput).

I assume the PW:S problem people are seeing is from 10-mans and I can't really comment on that. From a 25s PoV PW:S gets at best one group before a timer ability from the boss but you could just Spirit Shell that damage anyway; I can't blanket or snipe heals in 25s with PW:S.
Edited by Prys on 5/11/2013 11:30 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
I assume the PW:S problem people are seeing is from 10-mans and I can't really comment on that. From a 25s PoV PW:S gets at best one group before a timer ability from the boss but you could just Spirit Shell that damage anyway; I don't/can't blanket or snipe heals in 25s with PW:S.


I honestly don't see DA a problem at all. It's mindless, sure, but so is almost every other Mastery. SS on 1-min timer and PW:S are much bigger issues, especially with how highly spammable PW:S becomes with the LMG.
Edited by Ceddya on 5/11/2013 11:23 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Priest
13540
Perhaps they need to add a cooldown back to PW:S? It wouldn't really hurt 25s healers at all unless they are spamming it which Blizzard has stated in the past isn't their intended design, sounds like it might help fix 10s since it is such a powerful heal with so few people to blanket, and Weakened Soul might make it also not affect PvP (I don't really know or honestly care about how it would affect PvP).
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Perhaps they need to add a cooldown back to PW:S? It wouldn't really hurt 25s healers at all unless they are spamming it which Blizzard has stated in the past isn't their intended design, sounds like it might help fix 10s since it is such a powerful heal with so few people to blanket, and Weakened Soul might make it also not affect PvP (I don't really know or honestly care about how it would affect PvP).


That would be real crap for Rapture.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10235
What a lot of people are missing is that HOTS are designed to be overheals to some degree. Any druid knows that you don't start putting lifebloom and rejuv on the tank when the tank starts taking damage ... they are ALREADY rolling. Then IF there is damage it is an instant heal that can happen even if the healer is paying attention to someone else at the time.

That is the advantage of hots. They are SUPPOSED to be ticking already when you are predicting phases of high damage. If people stop looking at the meters and realize that each type of heal has a reason, things would go a lot smoother.

Absorbs are great, but what happens when the absorb is used up? a healer with no hots has to consciously focus on a player and be constantly casting, meaning you cannot focus on anything else such as curing, refreshing buffs, etc.

I know as a pally if more than a few people are at low health, I'm in trouble. Luckily I raid with a hot healer (shaman) who knows his stuff and times his spells for high damage events.

I can tell you one thing, his hots can bring up 10 people from 10% health to 90% way faster than I ever could. Even if i tried, I'd be out of mana while he is swimming in it.

When the raid is near full health all the time, absorbs will show up more. When the raid is near low health all the time, hots will show up more. And ... if your raid is full health all the time, you are using too many healers =)

It's not all about meters. It's about keeping everyone alive to finish the fight. And absorbs help a great deal with this.
Edited by Feene on 5/11/2013 8:36 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Priest
13540

That would be real crap for Rapture.

Not really. Rapture can only occur every 12 seconds, the cooldown wouldn't be more than 3 seconds MAX I would imagine (I think that is what it used to be? Can't remember). I don't know about everyone in the game, but for me there is always a variant in me getting my Rapture by a few seconds, even if there is only one Disc in the raid (and I rarely have difficulty when there are two). Even if it did put a hamper on Rapture Discipline has some of the best mana management in the game, if not THE best, but that isn't really necessary to add for this discussion.

. . . PW:S has plenty of moments where it is used quite heavily. . .


Right, this is exactly the point everyone is trying to make and FIX.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
I bubble almost everyone who gets a debuff on heroic horridon. I Shield all the healers on heroic tortos and anyone who is not topped off before a stomp.

PW:S has plenty of moments where it is used quite heavily.


This is the issue though, PW:S spam has become as mindless as DA stacking was in 5.1.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
This is the issue though, PW:S spam has become as mindless as DA stacking was in 5.1.


Yeah.

Cuz we have the mana to do it. Just like we had the mana for blanket DA in 5.1. :-\

I said it once, I'll say it again - healers go for the most reliable, consistent throughput they can find. I said when they announced the 5.2 changes that we would go straight back to bubble spam as soon as we could sustain it. GC told me I was wrong. Well...

Yeah, about that.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9210
Bliz usually tries to keep regen under control, that was the whole reason for static mana pools.

It may have gotten a little high since last patch and now people are reforging out of spirit more.

Now that spam and blanketing is easy to manage, another regen crunch like 4.2 could be in order.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Bliz usually tries to keep regen under control, that was the whole reason for static mana pools.

It may have gotten a little high since last patch and now people are reforging out of spirit more.

Now that spam and blanketing is easy to manage, another regen crunch like 4.2 could be in order.


They're not going to. It's too far into the expansion cycle. They'll -try- to go back to the drawing board at the end during the next expansion beta, but...

Yeah. About that.
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