warrior vs pally

91 Blood Elf Paladin
8375
Witch is a better main tank warrior or pally. Cause I had a big debate about with my prot pally and atm he is a bit more geared than me,but not by much. Would he be a better main tank rather than an off tank overall or dose it not matter really??
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Warrior
15645
1: There's no such thing as main tank/off tank any more. Just two tanks. Whoever tanks the boss and whoever tanks the adds depends sometimes on what skill sets a tank has and which player is better at doing various things.
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
It doesn't really matter any more, Blood. It's really "co-tank" rather than "off-tank" since so many fights involve switching back and forth between tanks.
Reply Quote
100 Undead Warrior
13840
Pally until they (hopefully) break this BS haste/mastery healing spec. Since the other tank in my guild found it, I've basically been null and void. All the fights that can be 1 tanked can't be done with me, but can with him. I guess because the healers actually have to pay attention when I'm tanking, lol.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
17840
Pally until they (hopefully) break this BS haste/mastery healing spec. Since the other tank in my guild found it, I've basically been null and void. All the fights that can be 1 tanked can't be done with me, but can with him. I guess because the healers actually have to pay attention when I'm tanking, lol.


I'm sorry, but just because paladins can one tank a fight does not mean they are the better main tanks. It's just how the encounters work this tier, and you can technically one tank all of them if you have a couple ret or holy paladins in your raid with clemency and you using a cancelaura BoP macro.

Healers have to pay attention to paladin tanks as well. Different active mitigation is different, and some may be better in certain situations than others, but every tank still needs healers just as much.

The better skilled tank will be noticeably better from a healer perspective. They have the tank AM style fairly well done right now.

Just listen to Krinu, it's more of a co-tank thing than a main tank and off-tank.

Also, I'm sorry to be the spelling %@##%@#! here but...

Which is a better


Fixt.
Edited by Perseus on 5/21/2013 5:40 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6740
I think both have there place.
Reply Quote
100 Undead Warrior
13840
05/21/2013 05:38 AMPosted by Perseus
Pally until they (hopefully) break this BS haste/mastery healing spec. Since the other tank in my guild found it, I've basically been null and void. All the fights that can be 1 tanked can't be done with me, but can with him. I guess because the healers actually have to pay attention when I'm tanking, lol.


I'm sorry, but just because paladins can one tank a fight does not mean they are the better main tanks. It's just how the encounters work this tier, and you can technically one tank all of them if you have a couple ret or holy paladins in your raid with clemency and you using a cancelaura BoP macro.

Healers have to pay attention to paladin tanks as well. Different active mitigation is different, and some may be better in certain situations than others, but every tank still needs healers just as much.

The better skilled tank will be noticeably better from a healer perspective. They have the tank AM style fairly well done right now.

Just listen to Krinu, it's more of a co-tank thing than a main tank and off-tank.

Also, I'm sorry to be the spelling %@##%@#! here but...

Which is a better


Fixt.


I never said that just because a pally can 1 tank a fight, that's what makes him/her better. For a 1 tank fight that doesn't even have to do with clearing stacks (i.e council) a prot pally with an OP build, doing 30-40k hps alongside the actual healing classes makes a huge difference. The "better skilled tank" doesn't even apply to this. I've been main tanking in every guild I've been in, since Vanilla. There's nothing wrong with my spec, stats, gems, glyphs or enchants. Before my "co-tank" found this spec, healers had told me I was easier to heal. We were equally geared, using the proper stat priority, etc etc. The problem is that even in a 10m, healers can pretty much sit back and relax if there is a pally in their group, with that build. It's a clutch and many raids have become reliant on it.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
9025
05/23/2013 09:28 PMPosted by Moondra
I've been main tanking in every guild I've been in, since Vanilla. There's nothing wrong with my spec, stats, gems, glyphs or enchants.

I would disagree with this statement. You are well over the hit cap, well under the exp hard cap, you are using stormbolt for some ungodly reason. And why on earth did you upgrade tier gloves over puncture proof?
Reply Quote
14 Night Elf Druid
0
05/23/2013 09:28 PMPosted by Moondra
I've been main tanking in every guild I've been in, since Vanilla. There's nothing wrong with my spec, stats, gems, glyphs or enchants.
HAHAHA.

This is a hilarious justification for terrible speccing (literally have to try to mess this up now), terrible gems/reforges (stam so good for bosses that can be tanked by a fresh 90), a glyph that literally is worthless outside of one, MAYBE two fights this whole expansion, and...

well honestly I was gonna say "there's literally no way to mess up enchants" but you did it buddy, you got Colossus
Edited by Kangarooster on 5/25/2013 9:33 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
10025
1: There's no such thing as main tank/off tank any more. Just two tanks. Whoever tanks the boss and whoever tanks the adds depends sometimes on what skill sets a tank has and which player is better at doing various things.


This isn't accurate.

In this tier of content, there are several fights where a significant advantage is gained by solo tanking. The tank your raid group chooses to solo-tank the fight is the main tank by definition.

Let's answer questions accurately, rather than in the way we think things should be.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
14075
In this tier of content, there are several fights where a significant advantage is gained by solo tanking. The tank your raid group chooses to solo-tank the fight is the main tank by definition.


I can see that on MAYBE Durumu and Iron Qon. But we like two tanks there anyways just in case someone screws up and a tank dies or something. It's not like the DPS check is that strict on normal.

Horridon there's so many adds that we tend to use 3 tanks. We've done it with two, but it's just easier with less chance of people messing up with three.

2 tanks, 7 healers, 16 DPS is a common setup for us, as well as 2 tanks, 6 healers, 17 DPS. 5 healers is the lowest we'll go, but we don't usually drop to 1 tank because we're doing normal modes, and in normal modes, it doesn't really matter and doesn't gain you much advantage for the risk of a tank death. Replacing a tank with a DPS, you only gain something like a 60-100k RDPS gain, sometimes not even. If you're wiping at 4%, I can see that being important, but most of the time, our wipes are caused by healing issues or people dying early to some important mechanic (or tank death due to to some mistake).
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
10025
2 tanks, 7 healers, 16 DPS is a common setup for us, as well as 2 tanks, 6 healers, 17 DPS. 5 healers is the lowest we'll go, but we don't usually drop to 1 tank because we're doing normal modes, and in normal modes, it doesn't really matter and doesn't gain you much advantage for the risk of a tank death. Replacing a tank with a DPS, you only gain something like a 60-100k RDPS gain, sometimes not even. If you're wiping at 4%, I can see that being important, but most of the time, our wipes are caused by healing issues or people dying early to some important mechanic (or tank death due to to some mistake).


The vast majority of people asking questions like this are doing 10 man raiding, not 25.

05/25/2013 10:26 AMPosted by Dekkar
I can see that on MAYBE Durumu and Iron Qon. But we like two tanks there anyways just in case someone screws up and a tank dies or something. It's not like the DPS check is that strict on normal.


Council, Tortos, Megaera, Durumu and Iron Qon are all single-tankable, and if your raid has low DPS, you get a significant advantage for doing so.
Reply Quote
100 Undead Warrior
13840
I've been main tanking in every guild I've been in, since Vanilla. There's nothing wrong with my spec, stats, gems, glyphs or enchants.

I would disagree with this statement. You are well over the hit cap, well under the exp hard cap, you are using stormbolt for some ungodly reason. And why on earth did you upgrade tier gloves over puncture proof?


Last time I checked Icy Veins it didn't say to go full out hard exp cap. 7.5% exp and hit, then mastery/stam. I'm .31 over hit cap...that's not "well over" and can't do much about it. I've never been a tank to pump out dmg. DPS classes are there for a reason. Stormbolt is useful in certain situations, believe it or not. And I upgraded tier because I won't be getting anything better for awhile. If I got the tier helm, it'd give me the 2 set bonus therefore, puncture proof would be gone. So what's the point?

I've been main tanking in every guild I've been in, since Vanilla. There's nothing wrong with my spec, stats, gems, glyphs or enchants.
HAHAHA.

This is a hilarious justification for terrible speccing (literally have to try to mess this up now), terrible gems/reforges (stam so good for bosses that can be tanked by a fresh 90), a glyph that literally is worthless outside of one, MAYBE two fights this whole expansion, and...

well honestly I was gonna say "there's literally no way to mess up enchants" but you did it buddy, you got Colossus


K? Terrible speccing, gems and reforges how? I refuse to be a pure stam stacker. Mastery is more beneficial imo. I read you're supposed to have double the parry of your dodge, which I'm basically at. Glyph of Unending Rage is beneficial considering you have 120 rage and can use shield block/barrier back to back. Glyph of Shield Slam I tried for 1 fight and haven't been playing enough lately that I cared to switch it back. Glyph of Heavy Repercussions is worthless how? Minor glyphs are a joke and don't really count for anything. And I may have colossus but at least I have my weapon enchanted. If I didn't have enchants, especially on multiple pieces, that would be an issue. But hey, you're just a useless $#!+ talker anyways. Too afraid to post on the interwebz on anything but a lvl 14 >.>
Edited by Moondra on 5/25/2013 9:49 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Warrior
15645
05/25/2013 09:43 PMPosted by Moondra
7.5% exp and hit, then mastery/stam. I'm .31 over hit cap...that's not "well over" and can't do much about it.
Might wanna not reforge to hit if you're over the cap.
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
Reply Quote
100 Human Warrior
13670
Council, Tortos, Megaera, Durumu and Iron Qon are all single-tankable, and if your raid has low DPS, you get a significant advantage for doing so.


By that logic, on Council you can have your Mar'li tank just hit her enough to get threat and then go pew pew a bit and do Atonement Priest-level DPS and still kill them on normal. Once Sul dies the DPS check is over and the fight is faceroll. And his DPS "requirement" isn't even that stiff, not after it's been so generously nerfed into hilarity.

Also I'd be interested in seeing Megaera single-tanked; wouldn't both heads just breath over your entire raid if you're dead center between both heads, or am I missing something obvious here?

Seriously though, no fight on normal is a stiff enough DPS check to invalidate using a 2-tank strategy at this stage of the game. I honestly weep to imagine the kind of DPS where that would be necessary >_>;

05/25/2013 09:43 PMPosted by Moondra
K? Terrible speccing, gems and reforges how? I refuse to be a pure stam stacker.


First of all, Ghost of Zapwidget reporting in with the following:

ENCHANT YER CRAP


Now, to respond to the quoted material above; you're literally gemming for stamina in every socket except your pants, because you're using oranges for a 270+ Stamina socket bonus. If that isn't "gemming for stamina," then I'm the Dahli Lama and Kangarooster's Pope Benedict XVI. The only way you could be gemming more for it is to say "Eff socket bonuses! I'll just throw Solid River's Hearts in EVERY SOCKET!"

You could easily hit both 7.5% hit, and 15% expertise in your gear right now, and still have a somewhat respectable level of Mastery. Know how I know? I did it in worse gear than you have now. :P

As for your spec; Storm Bolt's pretty much going to be the inferior choice on almost every fight this tier. You'd be better served using Bloodbath, as it's a sizeable DPS increase that synchs up amazingly with your major DPS cd's, both of which are on 3 minute timers. And since people in this thread are all "BLAH TANK DAMAGE IS SO IMPORTANT ON NORMALS AND WARRIORS AREN'T HELPFUL SINCE WE CAN'T BUBBLE CHEESE MECHANICS" you can at least validate your raid spot by doing more damage then the Holy Paladin who got bored trying to beat the Prot Pally with Battle Healer and is spam-casting Denounce for lulz.

Other weird choices: Impending Victory is almost universally worse compared to the healing that will be done through Enraged Regeneration, but at least you didn't take Second Wind. Mass Spell Reflect is a joke since, guess what, Spell Reflect's a joke (except on Council as Mar'li tank, mainly just to make her die slightly faster); Safeguard and Vigilance both have exceedingly more potent, and frankly better utility than MSR has even on a good.

Your other talents (Disrupting Shout, Shockwave and Double Time) are all more or less fine, but you should be switching them depending on the fight; I'm assuming "since you tanked way back in Vanilla" you're smart enough to actually do this.
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Warrior
13780
05/23/2013 09:28 PMPosted by Moondra


I'm sorry, but just because paladins can one tank a fight does not mean they are the better main tanks. It's just how the encounters work this tier, and you can technically one tank all of them if you have a couple ret or holy paladins in your raid with clemency and you using a cancelaura BoP macro.

Healers have to pay attention to paladin tanks as well. Different active mitigation is different, and some may be better in certain situations than others, but every tank still needs healers just as much.

The better skilled tank will be noticeably better from a healer perspective. They have the tank AM style fairly well done right now.

Just listen to Krinu, it's more of a co-tank thing than a main tank and off-tank.

Also, I'm sorry to be the spelling %@##%@#! here but...



Fixt.


I never said that just because a pally can 1 tank a fight, that's what makes him/her better. For a 1 tank fight that doesn't even have to do with clearing stacks (i.e council) a prot pally with an OP build, doing 30-40k hps alongside the actual healing classes makes a huge difference. The "better skilled tank" doesn't even apply to this. I've been main tanking in every guild I've been in, since Vanilla. There's nothing wrong with my spec, stats, gems, glyphs or enchants. Before my "co-tank" found this spec, healers had told me I was easier to heal. We were equally geared, using the proper stat priority, etc etc. The problem is that even in a 10m, healers can pretty much sit back and relax if there is a pally in their group, with that build. It's a clutch and many raids have become reliant on it.
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Warrior
13780
I agree completely with Moondra. I basically gave up tanking because I felt I was holding our guild back from progression. We run a casual 10 man and were having issues putting out adequate dps on our progression fights. As i am sure i will get criticized for this statement it is a CASUAL raid. Not everyone valor caps every week and not everyone plays their role to perfection. The way Horridon (for example) was tuned in 10m we could do everything right and still wipe. If the raid has a tanking option that not only adds significant heals per second but does significantly more damage (all else being equal) why wouldn't you take that? We have 2 monks and a pally tank and had a DK tank. They all did significantly more damage than me. Add in increased healing and the choice becomes obvious.

As an aside, nitpicking Moondra's gear/spec/chants has little to do with his/her opinion in regards to the OP's question. The changes you are all talking about are not going to help him put out 40k hps or do as much damage as a geared dps like other tank types can.
Reply Quote
100 Undead Warrior
13840
05/25/2013 11:45 PMPosted by Waniou
7.5% exp and hit, then mastery/stam. I'm .31 over hit cap...that's not "well over" and can't do much about it.
Might wanna not reforge to hit if you're over the cap.
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859


Not sure if you even looked at my gear, but I haven't reforged 1 item to hit >.>

[quote]

Now, to respond to the quoted material above; you're literally gemming for stamina in every socket except your pants, because you're using oranges for a 270+ Stamina socket bonus. If that isn't "gemming for stamina," then I'm the Dahli Lama and Kangarooster's Pope Benedict XVI. The only way you could be gemming more for it is to say "Eff socket bonuses! I'll just throw Solid River's Hearts in EVERY SOCKET!"

You could easily hit both 7.5% hit, and 15% expertise in your gear right now, and still have a somewhat respectable level of Mastery. Know how I know? I did it in worse gear than you have now. :P

As for your spec; Storm Bolt's pretty much going to be the inferior choice on almost every fight this tier. You'd be better served using Bloodbath, as it's a sizeable DPS increase that synchs up amazingly with your major DPS cd's, both of which are on 3 minute timers. And since people in this thread are all "BLAH TANK DAMAGE IS SO IMPORTANT ON NORMALS AND WARRIORS AREN'T HELPFUL SINCE WE CAN'T BUBBLE CHEESE MECHANICS" you can at least validate your raid spot by doing more damage then the Holy Paladin who got bored trying to beat the Prot Pally with Battle Healer and is spam-casting Denounce for lulz.

Other weird choices: Impending Victory is almost universally worse compared to the healing that will be done through Enraged Regeneration, but at least you didn't take Second Wind. Mass Spell Reflect is a joke since, guess what, Spell Reflect's a joke (except on Council as Mar'li tank, mainly just to make her die slightly faster); Safeguard and Vigilance both have exceedingly more potent, and frankly better utility than MSR has even on a good.

Your other talents (Disrupting Shout, Shockwave and Double Time) are all more or less fine, but you should be switching them depending on the fight; I'm assuming "since you tanked way back in Vanilla" you're smart enough to actually do this.


I didn't say I wasn't "gemming for stamina". I said I wasn't stam stacking. Stam stacking would be exactly like you said, solid rivers heart in every slot. As far as hit and exp go, I'm at 7.81% hit and 9.28% exp. Why in the hell am I going to sacrifice mastery for the exp hard cap? I never once read on Icy Veins that "EXP HARD CAP IS PRIORITY!" Now for Storm Bolt, I find having a lot of stuns, interrupts and reflects useful. Like I had stated before, I've never played my tank to be worrying about DPS. DPS classes are there for a reason. Sadly though, this xpac everybody is all pew pew faceroll...Anyways, I recently chose IV over ER because IV is a 30 sec CD and ER is a 1 min CD. The group I was raiding with isn't the strongest, by any means, so I figured if I could have more self healing available, why not? When they have equally geared warrior and pally tanks and wipe 8 times while 1 tanking council and 1 shot it with the pally, that says something.
Reply Quote
100 Undead Warrior
13840
I agree completely with Moondra. I basically gave up tanking because I felt I was holding our guild back from progression. We run a casual 10 man and were having issues putting out adequate dps on our progression fights. As i am sure i will get criticized for this statement it is a CASUAL raid. Not everyone valor caps every week and not everyone plays their role to perfection. The way Horridon (for example) was tuned in 10m we could do everything right and still wipe. If the raid has a tanking option that not only adds significant heals per second but does significantly more damage (all else being equal) why wouldn't you take that? We have 2 monks and a pally tank and had a DK tank. They all did significantly more damage than me. Add in increased healing and the choice becomes obvious.

As an aside, nitpicking Moondra's gear/spec/chants has little to do with his/her opinion in regards to the OP's question. The changes you are all talking about are not going to help him put out 40k hps or do as much damage as a geared dps like other tank types can.


That's how it was for my guild basically. Regarding the casual aspect and all. We had problems for the longest time with people leaving. It had been me and the pally tank since the last boss in HoF. Only recently did they recruit a monk (for his dps) then decide to switch me out for him. And as Vyxn said, you can nitpick all you want but it isn't going to change the fact that warriors are the weakest tanking class. We don't even compare to the OP moves of the other classes. Hell my husband recently started up a prot pally and just seeing some of the skills they receive! When warriors do decent dps, they nerf the hell out of us due to constant complaints from other classes. We're completely inferior to other tanking classes...I feel like Blizzard shouldn't even have warriors in the game.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]