My list: Top 10 Kick-!@# Ladies of Warcraft

100 Blood Elf Death Knight
10715
... You chose Aggra over Zaela? or Garona? ...

Drop Aggra, Tyrande's latest depictions really drop her down a few pegs, lose the narcoleptic dragon for Shandris, and that archmage at #10? Miaev is more kickass.

Interesting concept though.
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100 Human Paladin
18350
05/12/2013 02:23 PMPosted by Kazmo
Emphasis on HEROIC, since this list does not include women villains.

05/12/2013 02:25 PMPosted by Kazmo
3.) Sylvannas Windrunner


This does not compute.
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90 Gnome Warlock
7115
Sylvannas is hardly a villain. She's a leader of one of the factions and is trying to survive. Sure she may not use the most ethical or moral methods but she is still a leader looking after her people.

I played Horde for the longest time before playing Alliance as a gnome, and I honestly felt that Veressa was a total !@#$%, I hated Veressa Windrunner from the perspective of a Horde Player but I had to make this list from a relatively neutral point of view. If I was still thinking as a Hordie, Veressa wouldn't make it on this list.
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41 Gnome Priest
310
lol Aggra
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100 Human Paladin
18350
05/12/2013 08:49 PMPosted by Kazmo
She's a leader of one of the factions and is trying to survive. Sure she may not use the most ethical or moral methods but she is still a leader looking after her people.


You could say the same thing about Garrosh. Do you not consider him a villain either?
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20135
... You chose Aggra over Zaela? or Garona? ...


Garona's gotten screwed pretty hard in the recent books and comics. She went from "Master Assassin" to "Mental patient who gets mind controlled a lot and has weird psycho-sexual and daddy issues."

I'm just embarrassed for her now.
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Jaina Proudmoore is the single most powerful mage on Azeroth and you rank her 7th out of female characters? She could be 7th out of all characters.
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41 Gnome Priest
310
05/12/2013 09:02 PMPosted by Egrem
She's a leader of one of the factions and is trying to survive. Sure she may not use the most ethical or moral methods but she is still a leader looking after her people.


You could say the same thing about Garrosh. Do you not consider him a villain either?


If Sylvanas was a guy he would probably consider her a villain. Destroying the living and human experimentation is heroic!
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90 Gnome Warlock
7115
my definition of "kick-!@#" is not based on just sheer raw power, if that were the case, Eonar, the Titan of Life would be at the top of the list. But its more than that.

Kick !@# to me, is about leadership, its also about personal goals, personality, reputation, how they use their power.

A character who puts their people over their own personal interest, scores big on my list. A character who has vast amounts of power but uses it to protect rather than harm, also scores big. A character who knows that sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils is also one who scores big for me. You'll find all those traits in this top 10, but of course to me, the higher on the list, the more.


... You chose Aggra over Zaela? or Garona? ...

Drop Aggra, Tyrande's latest depictions really drop her down a few pegs, lose the narcoleptic dragon for Shandris, and that archmage at #10? Miaev is more kickass.

Interesting concept though.


True, I think it was that scenario where Varian and Tyrande are together and Tyrande is portrayed like some warmongering impatient fighter, whereas Varian is the calculating tactician.

I think that was pretty damned bad lore. Tyrande to me, even as a Horde Player which was what I was for years, was always a very wise leader. Aside from Velen, Tyrande is the oldest of all the Faction leaders and has probably the most wisdom when it comes to battle. From the War of the Ancients to today, she's still leading the Night Elves, that's a one hell of a long term as leader.

... You chose Aggra over Zaela? or Garona? ...


Garona's gotten screwed pretty hard in the recent books and comics. She went from "Master Assassin" to "Mental patient who gets mind controlled a lot and has weird psycho-sexual and daddy issues."

I'm just embarrassed for her now.


I do think Garona could have done much more, but realistically in Warcraft lore, she was basically just a footnote overall. Granted her actions were highly important but she didn't do much afterwards. After killing Llane, she pretty much vanished for a long time before re-appearing recently. The other women listed were far more active.

Jaina Proudmoore is the single most powerful mage on Azeroth and you rank her 7th out of female characters? She could be 7th out of all characters.


Yes, Jaina is powerful, but she is not THE most powerful. She's one of the most visible definitely because we haven't seen mages like Khadgar or Modera entirely that active. She's definately talented but again I must stress:

Again I must stress, Jaina has been docked marks by me, only by me because I feel that she has greatly strayed from the path that would have made her a noble character.

Sure you can say that about Sylvanas, but she wasn't quite like Jaina. Sylvanas did start a war against the Gilneans, but that was for more strategic and military purposes. Jaina was ready to wipe out Orgrimmar out of sheer hatred and vengeance.

She's a leader of one of the factions and is trying to survive. Sure she may not use the most ethical or moral methods but she is still a leader looking after her people.


You could say the same thing about Garrosh. Do you not consider him a villain either?


Garrosh is willing to use genocide to do conquer the world. Yeah again you can compare that to Sylvanas's attack on Gilneas, but Sylvanas felt threatened by their presence. She wasn't doing her conquest to exterminate all life (ironic for them being undead I know) from the Eastern Kingdoms, or she would have easily turned on the Blood Elves too.

Garrosh does what he does out of bloodlust and conquest, Sylvanas does it to protect herself and the Forsaken, there is a clear difference of motive here.
Edited by Kazmo on 5/12/2013 10:21 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
14385
1. lol Aggra

2. Slyvannas is "Heroic"? lol; Not a vallian? lololololololol

As far as I'm concerned Slyvannas is worse than Garrosh but her cowardice is the only thing keeping her in check.
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90 Human Paladin
14385
Garrosh is willing to use genocide to do conquer the world. Yeah again you can compare that to Sylvanas's attack on Gilneas, but Sylvanas felt threatened by their presence. She wasn't doing her conquest to exterminate all life (ironic for them being undead I know) from the Eastern Kingdoms, or she would have easily turned on the Blood Elves too.


Oh were to begin with this. The only reason she didn't turn on the blood elves is because she still feels connected with her people. She didn't attack Gilneas because she felt threaten by them, she attacked them because Garrosh wanted a seaport for the Horde in the eastern Kingdoms. Gilneas had sealed itself off from the world for almost a decade when she attacked.

She was doing her conquest to bolster her ranks to make a literal wall of undead between herself and her enemies that she herself created. You don't see people upset with the Ebon Blade do you? There is a reason why the Alliance and others dislike/distrust the forsaken but are open to the Ebon Blade.
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90 Gnome Warlock
7115
1. lol Aggra

2. Slyvannas is "Heroic"? lol; Not a vallian? lololololololol

As far as I'm concerned Slyvannas is worse than Garrosh but her cowardice is the only thing keeping her in check.


I will continue to defend my choice to put Sylvanas near the top of the list, because she is not the same as Garrosh.

You can't ignore Sylvanas' past as defender of Silvermoon and as a High Elf. She stood up against Arthas and even managed to overthrow him from the Undercity as well as the Dreadlords in WC3. You can't call her a pushover for that.

Sylvanas also is practical enough to know who to fight and when to do it. She was even willing to side with the Argent Crusade, and still defends the Blood Elves. Sure she may want to expand the influence of the Forsaken but every leader wants to do that, including Varian. So you can't ignore the fact she is still a politician and a faction leader.

Its easy to see the Banshee Queen as a 1 dimensional evil waiting to be unleashed but I think Sylvanas is too complex for that. Sylvanas is way smarter than Garrosh. Garrosh doesn't care who he pisses off, Sylvanas does care.
Edited by Kazmo on 5/12/2013 10:27 PM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
18350
05/12/2013 10:12 PMPosted by Kazmo
Garrosh is willing to use genocide to do conquer the world. Yeah again you can compare that to Sylvanas's attack on Gilneas, but Sylvanas felt threatened by their presence


The Gilneans were hiding behind their wall. They wanted nothing to do with the outside world.

How exactly did that make them threatening?

05/12/2013 10:12 PMPosted by Kazmo
Garrosh does what he does out of bloodlust and conquest, Sylvanas does it to protect herself and the Forsaken, there is a clear difference of motive here


Sylvanas cares about herself, first and foremost. She cares about the Forsaken only insofar as she needs them to protect her. Her recent campaigns of conquest were anything but defensive. She attacked multiple locations without provocation. Civilians who presented no threat were killed, enslaved, tortured or worse.

Garrosh wants what is best for the orcs. He feels they need more land and more resources, and he intends to take those things from the other races by force.

Lei Shen wanted what was best for the mogu. He thought it was their purpose to bring order and unity to the world, even if that meant forcing the "lesser races" to comply.

Arthas wanted what was best for the Scourge. He sacrificed underlings knowing the Scourge would ultimately be stronger for it (once "Azeroth's greatest champions" were brought into the fold).

A tyrant who does horrible things to innocents is no hero, even if they're nominally doing those things for the sake of their "people". Sylvanas is ultimately no better than Garrosh, Lei Shen or even Arthas. She's a villain, through and through (one that's often compared to Arthas, both in-game and by Blizzard).
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90 Gnome Warlock
7115
Don't forget this is the top 10 kick-!@# LADIES, not leaders, not characters.
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100 Night Elf Priest
17460
Sylvanas doesn't care about the Forsaken as people... She has stated (well, not to people but to herself) that they were nothing more than arrows in her quiver. They are weapons to her, and their only purpose is to delay her death so she doesn't reach the same special hell that Arthas will suffer eternally in.
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90 Gnome Warlock
7115
maybe not, but she has certainly kick-!@# qualities.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
13060
I can't say I'm a fan of Aggra, Jaina, Tyrande, or Sylva.

No Moira?
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And Jaina is all grown up now, not "damaged" goods. People insist on misunderstanding her.
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100 Human Mage
14315
Aggra should not be on the list at all. Moira should be there somewhere.

And more importantly, how the !@#$ could you leave out Queen Azshara?? She's like the most powerful and most accomplished of all Warcraft females.

I'm not going to place them in any order, as that is very debateable..but for mine the best 10 kickarse ladies of warcraft are:

*Queen Azshara
*Alexstrasza the Life-Binder
*Ysera the Awakened
*Jaina Proudmoore
*Sylvanas Windrunner
*Maiev Shadowsong
*Moira Thaurissan
*Tyrande Whisperwind
*Aegwynn
*Onyxia/Lady Prestor

*Lady Sinestra and Garona Halforcen deserve honorable mentions also.
Edited by Aethenor on 5/13/2013 3:08 AM PDT
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