Topic PvP enh shaman optimization
What are everyone's thoughts after 5.3?
10% SP from AP + 20% dmg buff to lava lash AND stormstrike
Will this edge mastery into a heavy stat priority and make haste not worth it?
Do you find that Mastery/Haste is or will be better than Mastery/Crit or Crit/Haste?
Remember, you are not always in melee range of a target in PvP, I understand that haste is a much better stat for raw, unmitigated Patchwerk-esque scenarios... However, I don't feel that haste will do anything beyond lower my GCD ever so slightly in the long run (Crit and Mastery both improve dps quite well, even when in melee range the entire time)
From what I understand, for haste to shine, you need ppm trinkets. These won't be that useful in pvp, so am I right to assume that Mastery/Crit is our new stat priority for Enh.
Would love to discuss this with some actual PvP Enh shaman (oh what a rare breed)
Edited by Kaboômm on 5/8/13 12:59 PM (PDT)
Playing around on the PTR I found mastery/crit by far the best combo with mastery outweighing crit. I was hitting people for unfair stormstrikes with cds popped
ill still go mastery/haste while UF specced. Not sure you can get enough crit w/ the current gear to make it worthwhile. I tried reforging crit while maintaining a decent mastery stack, it just didnt feel right.
Edited by Shoknload on 5/8/13 9:46 PM (PDT)
I'm leveling up this shaman now because i am looking forward to the enhancement buffs. Playing enhancement in Cata made me delete my shaman and reroll to hunter.
I heard they were buffing Spirit walk to make you non-rootable/snareable...is this true ?
Im also thinking that gemming agi hybrid gems might be the way to go 5.3 for better heals. Maybe agi/res in red, agi/pvpP in blue and prolly str8 resil in yellow. I wanna see how the resil changes feel. Ill still shoot 68%-70% dr at the very least and that doesnt include the LS glyph.
Edited by Zevahcotineb on 5/10/13 5:06 PM (PDT)
Do you find that Mastery/Haste is or will be better than Mastery/Crit or Crit/Haste?
I've tried them all. The only one I don't like is Crit/Haste. Not a significant difference damage wise between Mastery/Haste or Mastery/Crit.
Im also thinking that gemming agi hybrid gems might be the way to go 5.3 for better heals. Maybe agi/res in red, agi/pvpP in blue and prolly str8 resil in yellow. I 1wanna see how the resil changes feel. Ill still shoot 68%-70% dr at the very least and that doesnt include the LS glyph.
I'd still go max resil. We are so incredibly squishy as it is that sometimes I don't even live long enough to get a single stack of MW (especially in 2s vs double dps). Slightly better healing isn't worth the resil loss.
Edit: Actually with the pvp power changes, damage across the board should be down. That might make more agi gems, and thus more healing viable...interesting.
Edited by Ironarse on 5/11/13 5:38 AM (PDT)
[quote="87953489974"]Edit: Actually with the pvp power changes, damage across the board should be down. That might make more agi gems, and thus more healing viable...interesting. [/quote
The nerf to pvp gem stats and the ap/sp change makes me think agi hybrid gems might be better than pure pvp stats. We'll see. i believe hi-60s dr from resil is mandatory for enh, given our lack of real mitigation and poor def cds. Once i hit the 67-68% dr mark, ill see If theres any gems slots left open for offensive stats.
Im not on PTR, so i cant play around w/ min/max stats for 5.3. Not much of a theory crafter either. Just going w/ what my guts are telling me.
Edited by Circuitz on 5/11/13 1:18 PM (PDT)
Cool I'm glad you all are talking about this. I just came here to ask this question actually. after just hitting 90 last night i was going though rereading my spells and hitting some dummies it seemed to me that crit should be a higher priority on our gear than it is. based on the fact that flurry procs from critical strikes, and then that gives us increased haste. not to mention unleash wind fury gives us...again more haste. It just seems that our class itself gives plenty of haste i was getting up to 150% with my !@#$ gear.
so I've decided to try stacking mastery > crit for PvP. mastery first for big ascendance numbers and lava lashes. then crit for flurry procs and for those big ascendance / lava lashes to actually crit.
P.S. as a new shaman (i might have to make that new thead about this if yall can't answer it for me.) i have 2 questions:
1. is there a soft haste cap that enhancement shaman need to hit for PvP?
2. is there a point with crit where you will have flurry up 99.99% of the time? where you are crit-ing (if this is even possible) to much?
(sorry bout spellin n' grammar n' sutch i kinda just whipped this together.)
P.P.S: does anyone ever switch to rockbiter weapon embune when getting trained on? seems like 40% single target dmg reduction with the lvl 90 talent is pretty legit? is there a macro to do this quickly?
Edited by Lumenz on 5/18/13 2:46 PM (PDT)
I have been playing Crit>Mastery>Haste and I feel like my sustained is decent and my burst is still great. I don't understand the complaint about not getting enough crit as I was able to get 23% crit in almost full malev. However, I can see where having an extra 15% haste would be great - I feel like my GCDs are much too slow - especially on the defense.
I have been wondering to myself how effective Crit>Haste>Mastery would be and am going to try it soon. The direct coefficient for our Ascendance damage will be low, but with high Crit and high Haste it miiiight make up for it.
Mastery is great and all, but our bread and butter is SS, WF, and melee attacks. Sure, lava lash is a large burst too - but will 20% damage there make a difference on a 10 sec cd? with more haste you get more MW procs - on the defense, you will not notice Mastery at all
Imagine a scenario where you are the target and you have to keep yourself up with every MW proc being a Healing surge or rain. What % of your damage is affected by mastery in this scenario outside of Ascendance? No LB/EleBlast, you may not have had enough time to get a searing totem stack while defending yourself - so initial burst will not be affected as much. Essentially you are just buffing the Shocks in this situation - a very minor portion of our dps.
Crit effects our healing, Mastery and Haste do not. Crit is also our most reliable burst mechanic outside of Ascendance - so for that reason I will probably always be maxxing it out.
Mastery effects our Ascendance burst and offensive MW procs and our Lava Lash. Very effectively raises burst damage in a purely offensive scenario.
Haste effects our GCDs, our MW procs, our melee damage, our WF indirectly, our Dancing Steel procs (or tailoring procs), our PE damage very significantly - but attains full benefit while in melee range, the longer you are out of melee range, the less benefit you will receive from haste.
Diablous goes Crit>Haste>Mastery - almost enough reason for me =P
EDIT: Diablous keeps changing his stats up. I guess he is Haste>Crit=Mast
Edited by Sorrowstorm on 5/18/13 3:06 PM (PDT)
If you do it right, you can back mastery and do a passive or active haste buffs. As fun as echo is, its still a chance spell, and IMO is more suitable for getting double heals off in pvp if your lucky. But I am able to buff up my damage through mastery since it effects all my abilities offensively and through swiftness I have an instant hex, LB, EB, or w/e you need to start off with depending on your spec, with a passive 10% haste buff as melee. Stat wise without Swiftness I only have 18% haste, but passively with swiftness its almost 30%, more then anyone would need as enhancement to proc more maelstroms.
Swiftness is awesome in 3s when I open up with hex on a dps or healer forcing them to blow either a good cd or trinket gives me advantage. Healer will either have to trinket to save a dps, or wait it out and hope his partner(s) don't die. Once a healer is stuck without a trinket, enhancement + mage or warrior, hunter, rogue, monk, or w/e your other dps may be, is more then enough damage to drop most people. That and EM being on 1.5 cd makes them way more suitable then echos IMO.
Edited by Lumenz on 5/18/13 5:36 PM (PDT)
Echo makes self-healing so much stronger though. On fights that I know I'm on the defensive, I want Echo everytime. 30% increase to healing and LB damage is very nice - instahexes are great but I generally don't have a problem getting one off unless I'm being melee trained (in which case I would want echo hands down). 10% haste increase seems really nice - but it doesn't lower your GCD if I'm not mistaken (that would be spell haste, correct?) - If anything I would use Swiftness for a 2nd burst heal every 1.5 min, which seems a bit weak in comparison to a 30% overall increase in Healing Surge. If swiftness was on a shorter CD I might consider it - Elemental Mastery is imo the better burst talent, but will not help much defensively (aside from increase to healing when used with Ancestral Guidance). For a fight where I will most likely kill the target very quickly, I like to go Ele Mastery and for fights that require me to heal I go EoE. I don't see how a 10% melee haste could convince me otherwise >_<
I have been testing PTR Enhance shammies a bit and I LOVE Mastery>Haste>Crit setup.
I gem pure agi in red sockets, pvp power in blue and agi + res in yellow. With the overall damage nerf plus the 10% glyph, I had no problems surviving and I was hitting like a truck.
Here is a video of some of it:
First two matches, I hit like a retarded truck thx to short matches + primal ele but the others it's still amazing.
One ability I don't think you touched on Lumenz was Lightning Shield, and it's a pretty significant ability, especially if you're running with Unleashed Fury.
With my spec/gear (I prioritize Mastery > Crit > Haste), here's a breakdown of my damaging abilities after a day's worth of pvping/arenas:
1) Stormstrike (Mh + Oh): 15.7%
2) Lightning Shield: 14.8%
3) Melee: 11.9%
4) Lava Lash: 9.8%
5) Stormblast (Mh + Oh): 8.6%
6) Windlash (Mh + Oh): 7.7%
7) Windfury: 6.5%
8) Lightning Bolt: 4.8%
9) Earth Shock: 4.5%
10) Unleash Frost: 3.1%
11) Frost Shock: 2.4%
12) Unleash Wind: 2.2%
13) Stormlash: 1.9%
14) Frostbrand: 1.8%
Speaking from a purely damage output standpoint, Mastery is just too good to pass up for both the burst of Ascendance and the sustained of Lightning Shield and Lava Lash. Other than Mastery, however, there are other reasons why Lightning Shield is so high on %. The main reason being that Shaman are focused nearly every time. So why not turn that into an advantage?
I put Crit second for the burst. Haste, while in theory is useful for damage, just doesn't seem practical to me. You need at least 10% spell haste for the GCD reduction to be effective which would cause you to sacrifice a bit of crit and mastery, and between kiting and rng of MW, it's hard to get the most out of it. I do, however enjoy, combining Elemental Mastery with Ascendance when I'm in an explosive burst kind of mood.
I think i've thought of something nobody else has thought of. I stack haste because it reduces my gcd, since shams SUCK at surviving, I decided to make my gcd low in order to allow me to pop WHATEVER I need to survive very fast. I believe speed is key to shamans, speed of the player. In order for me to cast fast and react fast I need haste, my haste with talents is 30%. I am very happy with how fast I can wolf and chase someone, with how fast I can drop whatever totem I need based on the situation.
I prefer speed and agility over raw power. Thats my point. We have a difficult time surviving so I love the 2 speed boosts we have, the double purge, and the ability to use spells EXTREMELY fast giving me the ability to play the arena map to my advantage instead of trying to duke it out raw.
I'd like to know what other people think of this.
I have been testing PTR Enhance shammies a bit and I LOVE Mastery>Haste>Crit setup.I gem pure agi in red sockets, pvp power in blue and agi + res in yellow. With the overall damage nerf plus the 10% glyph, I had no problems surviving and I was hitting like a truck.
Just curious as to how high of a dr cld you get from resil stack? HI 60s?
1) Stormstrike (Mh + Oh): 15.7%2) Lightning Shield: 14.8%3) Melee: 11.9%4) Lava Lash: 9.8%5) Stormblast (Mh + Oh): 8.6%6) Windlash (Mh + Oh): 7.7%
This breakdown here is why mastery IS the best stat if your UF specced imo.
Diablous goes Crit>Haste>Mastery - almost enough reason for me =PEDIT: Diablous keeps changing his stats up. I guess he is Haste>Crit=Mast
Dont assume to know why a top player does things a certain way just looking at his stats. Dude could be just screwing around with his stats before he logged. There was a thread earlier about enh pvp wep enchants. One guy looked up a bunch of high rated enh and saw one guy doin 2xds, the other guy doin ds/wep chain. Cld be "one guy" was capping 2s vs a mage/disc team and didnt the the disarm protection. Cld be "other guy" was dueling some rogue punk and needed the wep chain. Point is, take armory snapshots w/ a grain of salt. Ya nv know wat someone else is doing.
Edited by Lumenz on 5/19/13 12:00 PM (PDT)
I do know that, of course - I was just clarifying for anyone that's read it, and I've seen throughout most of this season he has been Haste>Crit>Mastery (at about 35%) - He has never stacked mastery this season as far as I'm aware.
Mastery and UF go somewhat hand in hand... I prefer PE unless I'm taking UF for the speed leech against teams that are going to try to put me on an island.. or EleBlast for longer games that won't require a ton of defense on my part. Even then though, I find Lightning Shield's damage in UF is probably just as effected by haste if you can get one more attack in between that 8 second window and aside from that - you are only proccing them on SS and LL. Considering how little I plan on running UF over Eleblast and PE, I'm not sure a small amount of damage increase on it is what I'm looking for.
Haste should be our best stat... Flurry increases haste from items by 50%, so it is effectively 50% better than us than for any class let alone with our class mechanics (MW, WF, GCD heavy class) it does seem pretty good.
At first, I didn't see the appeal, when I got my Tyran Weaps though, I started to see the big difference in damage that it was bringing outside of Ascendance. Ascendance is already VERY strong, a good team wont let you get off much more than your 2 stormblasts and keep you cc'd the rest of the time. I'd like to focus on damage outside of Ascendance because the spell will always be good.
Dont get me wrong, i love diablous, but my playstyle varies from his. I go well beyond 35% mastery.
This is one of the things I really like about this game. Each player has the ability to tailor thier toon toward a playstyle they enjoy. You like PE/EB, i like UF almost exclusively. I have my stat priority, you have yours. Each is right in thier own way, according to comp and strat.
Haste should be our best stat
Haste is our best stat overall imo. However,for me, EMs on demand haste burst and !@# static haste boost makes stacking haste a little less attractive. I dont tend to use EoE all that much.