Tank Lounge #71. Rouge Tanks

90 Pandaren Monk
18865
Up to the 5th fire explosion on melee we just kinda like, ate. It was sort of a joke (4 melee, including tank).

Then again you do have to consider that Megaera is going to be a major "I HATE THIS I WANT TO GO DIE" progression fight for my guild because yay 10m!

[e] Actually I think we may have only gotten like 4 and everyone was able to stack before the 2nd Fist Smash, because we only had 2 Arcing Lightnings as the phase finished. Iunno, I need to stop being lazy and compress + upload my Qon video.


yeh ... on 25man the 3rd explosion is already doing a hell lot of dmg.

that's a 5 stack on 25H (shared by ~8 melee)

[23:16:03.032] Ro'shak Unleashed Flame Leeflow 151701 (A: 3855)
[23:16:14.115] Ro'shak Unleashed Flame Leeflow 53392 (A: 102163)
[23:16:24.250] Ro'shak Unleashed Flame Leeflow Absorb (233333)
[23:16:30.253] Ro'shak Unleashed Flame Leeflow 224297 (A: 125703)
[23:16:40.407] Ro'shak Unleashed Flame Leeflow 417671 (A: 30329)

if you consider all the aoe dmg going on ... it's quite deadly. And I had fort brew rolling, and a mix match of cds going on in the previous ones.

And the tank have to be excluded from them ... we had several "accidents" with tank's death caused by explosions + boss dmg
Edited by Leeflow on 5/25/2013 11:34 AM PDT
14 Night Elf Druid
0
And the tank have to be excluded from them ... we had several "accidents" with tank's death caused by explosions + boss dmg
Wow >_>

when we were 2 tanking we just threw the tanks in there because the boss does pretty much no damage.

even with 1 tanking I'm just like "Lol, sacred shield"
I'll probably look over my logs and my DP usage will be insanely low or something, it always feels like my 1min cds have really low usage (though I was almost never low on Demo Shout, always just felt like it)

[e] Nope 3 uses in a 9:52 fight and 0 AD uses, I give up
Edited by Kangarooster on 5/25/2013 11:31 AM PDT
90 Pandaren Monk
18865
yeh .. our tank got 6 different cooldowns on him while everything was up.

Fun times.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14480


Fean casts [Stalk Mercilessly]


I'm old, big, slow, and heavy-footed. I couldn't stalk Helen Keller.


This sounds a lot like me, sadly. D: 6'4", 230, size 14 feet /shame
Edited by Beskyttelse on 5/25/2013 11:50 AM PDT
14 Night Elf Druid
0
yeh .. our tank got 6 different cooldowns on him while everything was up.

Fun times.
I used Holy Avenger + wings, threw up Guardian, and spiked up like 40k more DPS :S
90 Pandaren Monk
18865
so ... a couple of tweets regarding vengeance problems etc . And I think this statement describes the current "sky is falling" in the forums

"The proposed vengeance change will stop one tanking, but it won't fix tank dmg overall. even in 25H you rarely hit 50% hp AP.
Yeah, like I said, those numbers might not be right ones or even the right solution. In retrospect I should have tweeted the problems we were trying to solve (as I did today) and not a solution in a vacuum. "
90 Draenei Shaman
4125
I'll probably look over my logs and my DP usage will be insanely low or something, it always feels like my 1min cds have really low usage (though I was almost never low on Demo Shout, always just felt like it)


DP with 4pc is really boss that fight. It feels like a Holy Avenger with how frequently you gain HP with high stacks.
Edited by Ludicrous on 5/25/2013 1:33 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
It wont stop one tanking (if its possible). Because an extra dps can be huge in 10m. Regardless if tank 1s damage is inflated.

If Tank+DPS > Tank x2, people will still try to one tank.
Edited by Ðemolition on 5/25/2013 2:43 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Monk
18865
I think it's more of a disencouragement than actually forbiding it ...

we'll have to see what they have in mind. I think the biggest issue is not how much vengeance feeds our defense .. but how much it boosts our offense.

Just food for thought btw .. imagine for example that they broke vengeance into 2 numbers: attack power and defense power. Similar to how spell power and healing power was back in bc. When you take dmg, you get 0.3AP/1DP ratio.

so the current ~300k vengeance that tanks can reach, would be more like:
+100k AP for offensive skills
+300k DP for defensive skills

our defensive skills would still scale correctly based on the dmg we are taking, and while we would still gain dps, it would be a much lower curve.

currently we get something like this:
base: 80k dps
vengeance: +20k to +300k dps

to something like this:
base: 100k dps
vengeance: +10k to +100k dps

our dps currently swings from 80k to 400k dps from the low/no vengeance scenario to a fully possibly stacked scenario.
Edited by Leeflow on 5/25/2013 3:38 PM PDT
90 Tauren Druid
0
The proposed vengeance change will stop one tanking


... If it's an encounter like Iron Qon...
Except not really because Iron Qon is pretty low on vengeance even 1-tanking unless you're talking about the dog pile on heroic, or have limited BoPs and take up to 7-8 stacks (My hunter's group only ever let the 1 tank stack up to ~4, I honestly doubt he ever broke 30% outside of the dog pile).

We conveniently ignore stuff like Durumu who doesn't give extra vengeance to the 1-tank, instead just giving you 1 tank with vengeance and 1 DPS instead of 2 tanks with vengeance half the time. Honestly, I have to agree with Demo, 1-tanking is going to be just as viable as ever, if they attempt to pitch this change as a way to break 1-tanking, they're kind of off the mark.

Thankfully, they've been talking about other stuff that makes more sense (BoP not being as good, making ground effects not give vengeance, etc.).
Edited by Ahanss on 5/25/2013 4:05 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
17755
the 3rd fire explosion already deals enough dmg to kill the melee. You already have to be using cds on that point. And it can go up to 6 stacks. That with CDs are being chained on the tank because of the dmg he's taking .. it's was really intense 3 weeks ago with much less gear.


Yes, and? It's pretty much similar on 10-man too, once you're into 3rd and 4th unless you run an extra melee you will start needing cooldowns. This does vary based on if you have 1 tank + 2 melee or 1 tank + 3 melee, but it's functionally not very different.

Whether the tank can be in or not really depends on where you are with the reset. We take extra stacks right before just to time a reset for this, and if we had a Smoke Bomb available, could use it for the Impale when Ro'shak is starting to get deadly. Aside from that, tank cooldowns pretty much covers it anyway.

And yeah, on the actual topic, nothing they're doing with VEngeance will STOP 1-tanking. It might make it less attractive than it currently is, but it'll still be attractive enough to be something people do.
90 Draenei Warrior
11550
I'm 19 yet I look 14-15 :l

I look like I haven't aged at all after hitting my teens
90 Pandaren Monk
18865
men's age is directly related to the fact of having a beard or not.

It's a magical switch that allows you to have +10 or -10 years.
90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
STOP MAKING ME TYPE AN AUTHENTICATOR IF I BOTCHED MY PASSWORD.

-Signed, slowly breaking keyboard
90 Human Warrior
12850
Dinosaur Jr > all

People talk about Nirvana and all I think to myself is "Dinosaur Jr says hello and that we are/were way better".


Only thing by Dinosaur Jr. I know is a collaboration song they did with Del Tha Funkee Homosapian on board. It's pretty nifty actually.
90 Pandaren Warrior
16625
I blame me wearing a hat almost every day of the week for the past seven years for my hair problem. And I still won't learn from it.
90 Human Death Knight
8900
I have never felt so powerless or fragile as when PVPing on my twinked 87 rogue.

Not even my mage. At least she can HK under 5 sec, and Ice Block.

Vanish? NOPE, not if I'm DoTted. Self-heals? Surely you jest. Every 3 minutes (Shadow Blades) I have a chance to kill someone 1v1, unless I'm lucky and get a Gouge or Blind chain off. But two people? Hope for crits and dodging.
90 Human Warrior
12850
I blame me wearing a hat almost every day of the week for the past seven years for my hair problem. And I still won't learn from it.


I stopped wearing hats habitually when my hair started falling out in clumps during art school, which is a shame, because I actually really like my fitted hat collection (It's like two Yankees hats, which I no longer wear).

I think that was more stress related than hat-related, but I had been wearing a bandanna over my head pretty much consistently until then; only thing that stopped me was the hair falling out thing...and then I wore it in my back pocket, until I had to stop doing that for...shall we say unrelated reasons >_>;
90 Pandaren Monk
11640
Hat wearing has nothing to do with hair loss.

My brother wears a hat habitually, I never wear one save when golfing. We both have the same hair line now (non-existent). A sample size of one, I know, but I think it shows the real culprit.

Genetics, my friend, genetics.
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